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That Gaza is not all poverty and misery does not mean that there is not plenty to go around there. Moreover, it is clear that the blockade only facilitates' Hamas continued control of Gaza, because Hamas controls the tunnels leading from Egypt and also distributes (or chooses not to distribute) foreign aid. The blockade only serves to help the murderous thugs of Hamas to further consolidate their power.
Christopher
at June 13, 2010 3:27 PM
Christopher, you've made it clear in your past posts that, as far as you are concerned, Israel is totally responsible for all of the Middle East problems. You seem to conveniently forget that Hamas was elected by the Palis in a free election, by an enormous margin. Clearly, the bulk of them support the Hamas agenda, including its stated goal of destroying Israel and eliminating all Jews worldwide.
So, genius, explain to us what Israel should do to make everything birthday cakes and puppies in Gaza. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
Cousin Dave
at June 13, 2010 3:33 PM
Cousin Dave:
Although I do think that Israel's government has recently made a series of poor decisions that do not serve its strategic interests well, I do not consider them responsible for the majority of the problems of the Middle East, which are primarily due to a complicated mix of the dysfunction of despots enabled by their wealth in the world's most useful energy source, the rise of radical of Islam (also: the Sunni-Shia power struggle), the legacies of various empires, and current power struggles to determine which country will become preeminent Muslim power in the region. This list is incomplete, but I hope you get the point – my thinking does not come from the perpective that Israel is the sole or even primary source of Middle East conflict and that much of the trouble there would exist independent of the founding of Israel. Can we dispense with that attack?
I'm pro-Israel, but I'm very much opposed to them doing things that undermine their long-term ability to solve the problem of Gaza and the West Bank (side thought that makes me wish I were a blogger: how big was the loss of Sharon in the current mess? Huge, I'd guess. He had much more military and political savvy than his successors.). Going along with the U.S.-led push for elections there that brought Hamas to power was a really bad idea.
Hamas, which won the election, was following the standard terrorist/organized crime tactic for gaining political clout, which is to be the people providing services. People tend to vote for those who give them stuff. I'm not a Pollyanna about these things, so I'm not going to take you up on your suggestion about how to make Gaza "birthday cakes and puppies," (dogs are unclean, yo!). But if I were trying to improve the situation, I'd work on de-coupling Hamas from the role of being the people's benefactor. In the long run, doing this is the only way to undermine Hamas and empower Abbas in Gaza (which is a small step in the right direction). I'd suggest screening to prevent weapons entering Gaza, but otherwise permitting people and goods to enter and exit. Delegitimizing Hamas is the key. The present blockade does not serve that end.
Christopher
at June 13, 2010 4:38 PM
The blockade only serves to help the murderous thugs of Hamas to further consolidate their power.
Mahmoud Abbas and also Egypt are quietly in favor of the blockade, so it might be that they disagree.
More basically though, Israel needs to keep the rockets out of Gaza.
Engineer
at June 13, 2010 11:03 PM
Christopher - there is no such thing as "radical" islam. There has been no reformatiom in the muslim faith, so called "radicals" are in factdoing exactly as their faith demands
Its just after 9/11 americans finally started paying attention to world events
Hell, back in 60's american muslims slaughtered Malcom X for saying they needed to start thinking and stop doing as they were told without question
lujlp
at June 14, 2010 6:09 AM
"Mahmoud Abbas and also Egypt are quietly in favor of the blockade, so it might be that they disagree."
Yes, I realize that, but they might be wrong. Lots of people think that collective punishment works, but I can't think of a time in which it has succeeded. Cuba, Iraq, Iran, etc... Can you?
Of course you need to keep the weapons out, but there seems little sense in much of what else is proscribed.
"Christopher - there is no such thing as "radical" islam"
Of course there is. To think of Islam as a monolith is convenient and easy but wrong. The radicalized Islam of suicide bombers global jihad and Al Qaeda was greatly influenced by Qutb's thinking and emerged in the second half of the 20th century. It's not the only strain of thinking in Islam, though.
Christopher
at June 14, 2010 9:36 AM
Christopher
Radical christains kill in the name of their religion, devout christains dont
Radical muslims dont kill in the name of their religion, devout muslims do
lujlp
at June 14, 2010 10:33 AM
There are bad sides to all types religion practitioners. But, I just can't stand and hated those islamic palestinian people selfishly seeking attention/publicity/sympathy and aid for their islamic cause all the time. I am having problem surviving in their islamic hellhole due to my refusal to bow to their totalitarian islamic culture. Therefore, I have NO sympathiy for islamic palestinian cause.
WLIL
at June 14, 2010 5:01 PM
I repeat, I just detest those childish and violent attention seeking islamic palestinian sympathy seekers who have no consideration for other people that need a home as well.
And when will the MSM report on that?
Jim P. at June 13, 2010 12:38 PM
That Gaza is not all poverty and misery does not mean that there is not plenty to go around there. Moreover, it is clear that the blockade only facilitates' Hamas continued control of Gaza, because Hamas controls the tunnels leading from Egypt and also distributes (or chooses not to distribute) foreign aid. The blockade only serves to help the murderous thugs of Hamas to further consolidate their power.
Christopher at June 13, 2010 3:27 PM
Christopher, you've made it clear in your past posts that, as far as you are concerned, Israel is totally responsible for all of the Middle East problems. You seem to conveniently forget that Hamas was elected by the Palis in a free election, by an enormous margin. Clearly, the bulk of them support the Hamas agenda, including its stated goal of destroying Israel and eliminating all Jews worldwide.
So, genius, explain to us what Israel should do to make everything birthday cakes and puppies in Gaza. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
Cousin Dave at June 13, 2010 3:33 PM
Cousin Dave:
Although I do think that Israel's government has recently made a series of poor decisions that do not serve its strategic interests well, I do not consider them responsible for the majority of the problems of the Middle East, which are primarily due to a complicated mix of the dysfunction of despots enabled by their wealth in the world's most useful energy source, the rise of radical of Islam (also: the Sunni-Shia power struggle), the legacies of various empires, and current power struggles to determine which country will become preeminent Muslim power in the region. This list is incomplete, but I hope you get the point – my thinking does not come from the perpective that Israel is the sole or even primary source of Middle East conflict and that much of the trouble there would exist independent of the founding of Israel. Can we dispense with that attack?
I'm pro-Israel, but I'm very much opposed to them doing things that undermine their long-term ability to solve the problem of Gaza and the West Bank (side thought that makes me wish I were a blogger: how big was the loss of Sharon in the current mess? Huge, I'd guess. He had much more military and political savvy than his successors.). Going along with the U.S.-led push for elections there that brought Hamas to power was a really bad idea.
Hamas, which won the election, was following the standard terrorist/organized crime tactic for gaining political clout, which is to be the people providing services. People tend to vote for those who give them stuff. I'm not a Pollyanna about these things, so I'm not going to take you up on your suggestion about how to make Gaza "birthday cakes and puppies," (dogs are unclean, yo!). But if I were trying to improve the situation, I'd work on de-coupling Hamas from the role of being the people's benefactor. In the long run, doing this is the only way to undermine Hamas and empower Abbas in Gaza (which is a small step in the right direction). I'd suggest screening to prevent weapons entering Gaza, but otherwise permitting people and goods to enter and exit. Delegitimizing Hamas is the key. The present blockade does not serve that end.
Christopher at June 13, 2010 4:38 PM
The blockade only serves to help the murderous thugs of Hamas to further consolidate their power.
Mahmoud Abbas and also Egypt are quietly in favor of the blockade, so it might be that they disagree.
More basically though, Israel needs to keep the rockets out of Gaza.
Engineer at June 13, 2010 11:03 PM
Christopher - there is no such thing as "radical" islam. There has been no reformatiom in the muslim faith, so called "radicals" are in factdoing exactly as their faith demands
Its just after 9/11 americans finally started paying attention to world events
Hell, back in 60's american muslims slaughtered Malcom X for saying they needed to start thinking and stop doing as they were told without question
lujlp at June 14, 2010 6:09 AM
"Mahmoud Abbas and also Egypt are quietly in favor of the blockade, so it might be that they disagree."
Yes, I realize that, but they might be wrong. Lots of people think that collective punishment works, but I can't think of a time in which it has succeeded. Cuba, Iraq, Iran, etc... Can you?
Of course you need to keep the weapons out, but there seems little sense in much of what else is proscribed.
"Christopher - there is no such thing as "radical" islam"
Of course there is. To think of Islam as a monolith is convenient and easy but wrong. The radicalized Islam of suicide bombers global jihad and Al Qaeda was greatly influenced by Qutb's thinking and emerged in the second half of the 20th century. It's not the only strain of thinking in Islam, though.
Christopher at June 14, 2010 9:36 AM
Christopher
Radical christains kill in the name of their religion, devout christains dont
Radical muslims dont kill in the name of their religion, devout muslims do
lujlp at June 14, 2010 10:33 AM
There are bad sides to all types religion practitioners. But, I just can't stand and hated those islamic palestinian people selfishly seeking attention/publicity/sympathy and aid for their islamic cause all the time. I am having problem surviving in their islamic hellhole due to my refusal to bow to their totalitarian islamic culture. Therefore, I have NO sympathiy for islamic palestinian cause.
WLIL at June 14, 2010 5:01 PM
I repeat, I just detest those childish and violent attention seeking islamic palestinian sympathy seekers who have no consideration for other people that need a home as well.
WLIL at June 14, 2010 5:04 PM
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