And those bloggers at Jezebel wonder why they can't get a date? They should start by looking at themselves in a mirror, but then again their mental image of themselves may not jive with reality.

http://tinyurl.com/3yurfoz

Last time I checked a man's penis doesn't get hard because he likes a woman's personality. I'm not sure how this makes a man a bad person since it's not a conscious decision, rather just the way (most) men work, there are those men that like large women. I'm 37 and work out and have a naturally curvy figure so I can't complain, but I do take care of myself. Those women that complain about men liking attractive women are usually not all that attractive themselves. Life isn't fair, biology isn't fair, deal with it.

It actually makes a lot of sense. You can tell a lot about a person (including their personality) from their face. Obviously not everything, but "the eyes are the window to the soul" and all that. Also, if you view a picture of the face, you can see if they are smiling, scowling, cowering, etc.

It makes sense that those sorts of things would matter more in the long term, whereas for a one-night stand you're going for the pure primal pounding thing.

Good body and homely face = double bagger. The second bag (over the head) is in case the first one falls off.

"I'm bothered that I don't live in a mansion in Beverly Hills with servants and a moat, but this is reality, and it very often does not gel so well with my squishy wishy dreams of how I'd like life to work. Boo frigging hoo."

This almost made me spit my coffee with laughter.

A recent study suggested (though the sample sizes were small) that women are attracted to men with facial appearance indicating low cortisol levels. (high cortisol=bad, from a number of health standpoints)

It doesn't seem unlikely that there are similar fitness indicators that men subconsciously derive from a woman's face (in addition to the obvious ones of youth/fertility)

A friend of mine has been dating this guy and they were having a talk about where things were going, and he told her that he had very high standards and wasn't going to settle for less than 90%, and she was only at about 75%...but maybe if she kept working out at the gym, she'd move up and things could get more serious.

We were all shocked, not only by his statement but that she kept seeing him...and kept working out. Now, we tease her, "So where are you - 85%?"

It's amazing the guy said this out loud, but I'm sure many men have a similar range of fitness that's non-negotiable.

And, as she's lost weight and shaped up, the relationship has gotten more serious. That's the brutal truth whether women want to face it or not.

"Yes, women are shoving the bankers out of the way to date the barristas."

To be fair, sexy male starving artists-types usually have tons of hot femmes falling over themselves for them. Actually, now that I think about it, most "bad boys" that I've actually known in real life have no problem getting dates, even if they're unemployed.

I wonder if their rebellious (or in the case of the starving artist, anti-establishment) attitude is somehow perceived as high status still? Interesting...

What these folks want to do is ignore that we are a product of evolution, like every other species on the planet. Men like women with "curves" because they indicate high fertility prospects. Women like tall men with narrow waists and broad shoulders because those are the male fertility cues. We can't undo 2 million years of hominid evolution because it offends some feminist.

Read the Dr's Eades book: "The 6-week cure for the Middle-Aged Middle" where they discuss the research about the constant male and female hip to waist ratios that are consistently found most attractive throughout human history (by examining ancient and modern art.)

Are the starving artists and unemployed bad boys 20 years old or 40? Some behavior that is sexy when you're young isn't so much when you're middle-aged.

I should also mention that there is some good news here. The feminist who are offended by evolutionary attractiveness are effectively taking themselves out of the gene pool by refusing to play by the rules to find a mate. Their ideas should die out in a few generations.

@AllenS

unfortunately feminuts are made not born. not breeding won't get rid of the 'men are scum' twits because our supply of ideological whackjobs is limitless

"Men like women with "curves" because they indicate high fertility prospects. Women like tall men with narrow waists and broad shoulders because those are the male fertility cues. We can't undo 2 million years of hominid evolution because it offends some feminist."

My neighbors two doors down have five children. The husband, not tall, and wife, no curve, both are over 200 lbs, I think, and has been that way for a long time. I think their relationship is serious and he has no problem in getting his over 200 lbs wife pregnant.

Who had more children? Marilyn Monroe or my fat neighbor?

If you don't believe me, just look around your neighborhood.

Actually, now that I think about it, most "bad boys" that I've actually known in real life have no problem getting dates, even if they're unemployed.

And invariably, the hot femmes involved end up griping about their fellow: always mooching off her, borrowing money, the car, having his bro's over, yadda yadda, yadda.

I'll listen to them for a bit, just to let them vent. Then I'll hit them with this jewel: He is what he is, no more, no less. Learn to accept him as he is, or move on. If you try to change him, eventually he'll come to resent you for it.

Jezebel is a good reflection of what feminism has become, just a lot of bitter carping about how everything is so unfair for women, and that men are assholes. It's telling that no similar examples of websites exist for men, at least none that are commercially successful. Men don't get off on constantly debasing women.

FWIW I have very little control over who I find attractive. It's not a conscious decision. Women are the same way, but they put more value on non-physical traits, like status and money. Both orientations can be seen as superficial, but that doesn't mean that anyone can do anything about them. I don't go around scolding women for wanting to marry doctors.

When you boil down the argument that's being made on Jezebel, it really comes down to control. They want to control how men think and feel. That's the amazing hypocrisy of their position, because they'd never tolerate the same directed towards women.

@jamonit

what i find amazing is that todays western women live in a society, for the most part, that gives them the freedom to live their lives any way they choose, subject to their own limitations of course. they have advantages that men don't have: reproductive rights for example. our civilization isn't perfect but it's not too shabby for todays woman. at the very least, this state of affairs arose directly out of past and now day-to-day sacrifices and cooperation of common men. all of the legal and societal advantages western women have over men, whether fair or unfair depending on your point of view, came about because of men not in spite of them. yes, women stepped up and asked for these things and many worked for them but it was men who allowed it and in many cases actively promoted it, passed legislation, what have you

average men have and continue to demonstrate their empathy and goodwill for women. it's a sign of our times i suppose that many women don't seem able to display the same empathy and goodwill for men with the notable exception of women like Amy. why is it so difficult for the average woman to support fairness for men? many don't seem to be able to put themselves in men's shoes the way they expect, no demand, that men should. i honestly don't have any answers

are men actually the more empathic, compassionate, nurturing sex? the evidence of the past 50 years seems to support it IMO

the more i watch the drama unfold between the sexes the more i'm starting to realize that it is men who seem to embody all the positive traits women historically claimed for themselves and it's women who have laid claim to the 'chauvinism' and right to abuse that they've always projected onto men by their actions when given license

Women don't display that empathy Jim because society has said they don't have to. Too many men are taught the old ways and with being desperate for female attention go along with it.

Physical attributes:
- Men have a "nice body and attractiveness" bias
- Women have a "height" bias

Women do have a height bias, and that is really more unfair since, theoretically, women can do something about their weight or attractiveness, but guys can do nothing about their height...or endowmment, which is another thing women secretly take measure of.

Neither gender is unshallow. It's silly to try to say one is worse than the other...or better than the other.

With maturity, most of us get less judgmental and petty about appearances, but we still judge.

The hypocrisy of some women when it comes to dating & relationships is mind boggling.

Please note: I said "SOME"!!!

Amy made a good point in one of her posted responses. It's a point that I think a lot of people - both men and women - miss. Manage Your Expectations.
I just finished reading Kathy Griffin's book, and she discusses this. She knew she was never, ever (because of her looks) going to land the "cute girl" roles. So she only bothered to audition for the "funny sidekick" roles. And guess what? She built up a successful career.

To bring this back to the original post here, this is where so many of the problems in the dating world show. People need to take a good long look in the mirror and learn from that. If you're 5'6" and 175 pounds, then get it through your head that you ain't gonna land Brad Pitt. So you either need to do something to change how you look, or learn to be happy with the fact that you're limited to a smaller subset of guys who are OK with a shorter, chubby girl. And to be fair...I see my single men friends miss this a lot. Sorry, but if you're a guy, 5'7" and balding, you are wasting your time going after that tall skinny blond. So don't act all huffy and pout when she declines your offer to buy her a drink, buddy.
Like Hugh Laurie says on "House"..."Sixes marry sixes and tens marry tens. There is a little slippage for money, but those are the hard rules."

Since when did 5'6" become short? 5'5" is average height for women. I think Jennifer Anniston is 5'6" and she landed Brad Pitt. Elisabeth Taylor is only 5'4", I believe, and she landed Richard Burton (and 7 other guys).

Men don't care as much about height as women do. In fact, some men are intimidated by women that are tall. 5'6" is not a bad height.

@lovelysoul -
I don't think height generally matters for girls, and yes, 5'5" is average. No matter how tall/short/in between you are, it's the height to weight ratio thing that matters.
Now, having said that...
Gisele Bunchen is 5"10". Bar Rafaeli is 5"8". But then again, Megan Fox is only 5'3".

@ UW Girl
Lovelysoul's point is that height in men matters to girls. That is, generally speaking, a girl wants a
man/date/husband to be taller than the girl.

Women's preferences for certain heights can get a little extreme. I'm 5'll and have gotten rejected because I'm not 6'. But you'd have difficulty distinguishing my height that precisely simply by looking at me, which makes me think that it's as much a status symbol as a physical preference.

Maybe women like telling their friends that their BF is 6'+ or something?!?

My neighbors two doors down have five children. The husband, not tall, and wife, no curve, both are over 200 lbs, I think, and has been that way for a long time. I think their relationship is serious and he has no problem in getting his over 200 lbs wife pregnant.

Who had more children? Marilyn Monroe or my fat neighbor?

If you don't believe me, just look around your neighborhood.

Chang, I am still laughing. It's been a rough week, and this was just what I needed. Thank you. "Who had more children? Marilyn Monroe or my fat neighbor?" You deserve a medal for such an epic thread win.

@theOtherJim, I'm sorry about your shift key, but found myself agreeing with a lot of what you said. I am a 40-year-old American woman who doesn't feel like my gender disables me in any way. I wish more women in the world could say the same thing.

Megan Fox maybe 5'3", but most men only see pictures, which don't show that, and she's also exceptionally good looking if you like that sort of thing.

As far as tall guys, I'm 5'5" (130lbs) and was married to a 6'3" (200lbs) man and it hurt my neck to kiss him and felt like I was suffocating to be under him. I prefer a little closer to my own height and size really, like 5'8" or so and 150lbs is good. But I'm too old to be too fussy, lol. Wait, that didn't sound quite right....

@Amy DAMN you look good! I had no idea.

@PirateJo, it must be that kind of week. But TOJim's post made me laugh too. I was just sitting here with a cocktail and nearly spewed on the laptop.

NicoleK said: "Are the starving artists and unemployed bad boys 20 years old or 40?"

A valid point - since I'm still in my twenties, most of my experience is limited to that age group. So I don't know if it holds true for the forty year old bad boys. I wonder where that line is between "rebellious" and "pathetic" is? ^_~

Darth Aggie said: "And invariably, the hot femmes involved end up griping about their fellow: always mooching off her, borrowing money, the car, having his bro's over, yadda yadda, yadda."

Yeah, but they usually stay with them for quite a while. Generally at least a year or two. Hell, my aunt married hers and didn't leave for ten years.

My point isn't that these people have lasting, picture-perfect relationships (HA!), but that these supposedly status-less guys can often and easily get the girls. ((I think NicoleK made a valid point about age making a difference, tho.)) I'm just wondering what makes them attractive if women are pre-programmed to go for money and status. And if that rebellious streak makes up for the lack of monetary wealth is some way/shape/form.

I hate women who date "bad boys" and then complain about how useless they are. My best friend used to date starving artist types and each one mooched off of her, the whole time she's making excuses or "he's going through a bad time now". I'm so glad she's out of that phase now. Yech.

I read Jezebel, mostly because they update constantly so it gives me something to look at during my boring classes (too bad Amy can't post a column every day!!) When I read this post originally, 95% of the commenters disagreed with the author's indignation, and pointed out that they too often differentiated between hook-up and relationship material, and also judged their hook-ups on superficial criteria. So no, this one article doesn't accurately reflect the opinions of most women, or even the feminists on that site.

I think that Jezebel probably feels pressured to post X number of articles per day and will write posts that are deliberately controversial/polarizing because the authors know they will generate a lot of comments and blog views.

Also:
"It's telling that no similar examples of websites exist for men, at least none that are commercially successful. Men don't get off on constantly debasing women."

Cmon, there are plenty of websites like this for men out there...just google men's rights if you don't believe me. In fact, I would say that Amy's blog is very men's rights oriented-she's much more likely to, say, post about a man falsely accused of rape than a rapist who walks away scot-free, or victims of paternity fraud rather than deadbeat dads. Which is totally fine-it's her blog, and it's great to see a female perspective on men's rights issues, but don't pretend that NO equivalent sites exist for men.

"I have no doubt there are douchebags out there of both sexes who will write off someone's long-term potential based on superficial criteria."

To me, this sentence says everything about her attitude. What gives anybody the right to decide that someone else criteria is superficial?

One of the commenter over there stated that men's hook up criteria was about the likelihood of the woman conceiving and getting to baby out of the womb. Exactly right and what we would expect from evolution.

I think the line between rebellious and pathetic is somewhere around 30. Which isn't to say that there aren't some 30-plus ladies who dig bad boys, but at that point they are looking for someone to settle with.

As for height, I'm 5 ft 2 (almost) and during my dating years found it was an advantage. It opened up a wider range of men, first of all, because a 5 ft 6 guy was still taller than me in heels. There were also a lot of medium guys, 5 9 or 10 or so who got to feel all tall and manly as they towered over me. And hell, even super tall guys got into it. They loved to laugh (fondly) at my little shoes. Of course, its a selected sample, as obviously I attracted guys into short chicks.

It took a University study to determine that men are attracted to hot chicks? What next, a double blind 5 year study to determine that water is wet?