I Need Problems
You were all super helpful on yesterday's blog item, Need Your "What Do You Do When...?" Manners Questions, asking for roommate manners questions for my next book.
For anybody who wasn't around yesterday, my agent told me I need to have more "burning need" questions -- the kind of manners/conduct questions people have a burning need to have answered.
Examples I got from the stuff you all posted on roommate issues include:
•When your roommates are your parents: How to politely live in your parents' basement.
•The Squatter: What to do about a roommate's boyfriend who is over at your house so much it's like he lives there.
Today, I'll take two topics from the top of my chapter outline, although I'm a little worried one will get neglected for the other. Please prove me wrong!
The first subject I need questions about is broadly titled The Airplane I'm looking for "What do you do when...? questions about manners on planes, in airports, at the TSA, on airport shuttles, on moving sidewalks, in making reservations, and in troubleshooting travel hell. Anything related to traveling somewhere on a plane.
The other topic is The Apology. Any questions you have related to that would be super-helpful.
And please feel free to post questions on miscellaneous other topics if they come to mind. The better the questions, the better my book will be (and the better it will sell!).







Whoever decided "I'm sorry you were offended" is an apology needs to be shot, as well as anyone who uses it.
I apologize that that isn't a question.
momof4 at September 25, 2010 10:59 AM
An apology should never begin with, "I'm sorry" or "I apologize." It has the appearance of rote recital and lacks sincerity. It should begin with an outline of the offense, then expression of regret for the offense.
The Airplane is a good question. I simply endure until the flight is over. But then again, I've never been on a transatlantic flight. Perhaps you could ask to switch seats?
Patrick at September 25, 2010 11:03 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758322">comment from momof4Whoever decided "I'm sorry you were offended" is an apology needs to be shot, as well as anyone who uses it. I apologize that that isn't a question.
Hah! It's fantastic. Thank you. Putting that right into the proposal (used your scammy roommate on keeping the utility money, too).
Amy Alkon
at September 25, 2010 11:03 AM
A true apology doesn't include a "but". A true apology should look something like:
"I did _________, and that was wrong. It was wrong BECAUSE__________, and it will not happen again. I am sorry. Is there anything I can do to make things right with you?".
"I am sorry" is kinda optional if you think about it. All you really want is for someone to admit their mistake...tell you WHY it was a mistake and that they understand it was unacceptable to you and HOW it was unacceptable and that it won't happen again.
The words, "I am sorry" are used over and over that they have lost their meaning. The only way I think an apology is sincere is when someone can not only admit that they errored but understand what they did. When they understand what they did - the depth of it, chances are greater that they won't do it again.
That to me is a sincere apology.
Feebie at September 25, 2010 11:15 AM
Not related to the two suggested topics...but since I just experienced it is on my mind.
How do you deal with neighbors and wifi. Last night I could not connect to mine and I presume it was because 13 other wifi services were visible and so the signals were interfering. Right now I can connect and their are 5 visible. I am not sure how to go about negotiation ... or even who to talk to.
I will have to check out the roomates topic later.
The Former Banker at September 25, 2010 11:46 AM
oh, on airplanes.... the recline question for passengers in coach (business and above is no big deal). I know you (or anyone) can come up with the answer -- the airline has effectively double sold the space. If the person in front of me wants to relax and recline, well then I certainly don't have room to work say on a laptop, oftentimes not enough room to have book open, and when the seat has a video display the angle because great enough that the picture is quite distorted.
of course their are the usual width issues and who gets the armrest.
dealing with chatty neighbors when you don't want to chat. Or neighbors leaning against you when they fall asleep.
The Former Banker at September 25, 2010 11:55 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758353">comment from The Former BankerThank you so much, Former Banker. Neighbors leaning against you when you want to sleep is one I didn't think of.
Need more airplane/airport ones if anybody has them.
Amy Alkon
at September 25, 2010 12:36 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758357">comment from The Former BankerRegarding the wifi question: A slew of them come up in my neighborhood, but I don't seem to have any problems because of it. I would call your provider -- Wifi shouldn't function like a tenement toilet if you're all paying for individual service.
Amy Alkon
at September 25, 2010 12:42 PM
A decade or so back, I was in coach on a flight from Seattle to London flying alone. Shortly after takeoff the flight attendant asked if I would mind switching with a woman in business class who was being bothered by the man next to her. I happily agreed, but learned the lesson a few minutes later. The man next to her farted the entire trip, and made absolutely no attempt to either hide the fact or excuse himself. They were the kind that burned your eyes. It was seriously so bad that nowdays I bet they would turn the plane around.
(TSA anecdote- my 6 year old boy recently flew down to California with 2 pair of scissors in his backpack, which went unnoticed. The flight crew even let him sit in the pilot's chair of the cockpit before takeoff!)
Eric at September 25, 2010 12:54 PM
I hate when people fish for apologies. I freakin' hate "I" statements. You know... "When you do X, I feel Y". I hate them, hate them, hate them, and if you want to set me off, it's a good way to make them happen. Non-confrontational my butt, it sounds like manipulative psycho babble.
I don't think it's a good conflict resolution technique. Either confront me or don't.
NicoleK at September 25, 2010 1:01 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758369">comment from Eric(TSA anecdote- my 6 year old boy recently flew down to California with 2 pair of scissors in his backpack, which went unnoticed. The flight crew even let him sit in the pilot's chair of the cockpit before takeoff!)
Eric, that farting story...how awful!
Gotta love that TSA.
Amy Alkon
at September 25, 2010 1:27 PM
This may not be a biggie, but I don't like it when people apologize too soon after doing something humiliating.
I had a colleague, who for some unfathomable reason really lost it with me. When I say "lost it," I mean she raised her voice and made a cutting comment in front of a room full of other colleagues.
(I interrupted her mid-presentation, for a second, to borrow an overhead projector for a presentation I was making in another room. The one I had was kaput and I could see she wasn't using hers.)
Anyway, almost immediately afterward, like minutes, she apologized. She went from cutting and sarcastic to contrite and mortified in no time flat! I find that confusing. Anyway, in this case I couldn't take it and laced into her in front of a few people too, albeit less than were in the first of our "discussions."
She deserved it, I guess, but if she'd waited a more appropriate length of time--let's say 'til the end of the day--I probably would have responded with less, ah, vigour? And, I felt afterwards that I'd made less than a stellar impression with the second group of people because, of course, they didn't know what had happened in the first place.
The whole thing was dumb, but I made it dumber and then I got mad at her for making a premature apology. It was one of the days when I just couldn't win at anything I was doing.
ie at September 25, 2010 1:49 PM
Speaking of apologies - I am SICK of people making the error that needs the apology in front of others, and then apologizing in private. For example - I recently had a student (and I mean an adult, professional student - or at least he should have been) start screaming and cursing in the office because of a mistake he had made. After security had been summoned, supervisors had been called, boss had been alerted, etc., the student had the nerve to come into my office, make a lame, half-assed apology, and put out his hand like he expected me to shake it.
I refused to, and I refused to accept his apology - if you screw up in such a public way, you know what? Your apology needs to be equally public.
And while we're on the subject, I'm becoming more convinced that for most people, apologies are a way to make them feel better, or make them feel like they've fixed the situation without actually doing anything other than mouthing words. I've gotten to the point that I flatly refuse to accept an apology that isn't accompanied with a sincere effort to fix whatever they did, or change the offending behavior. And I've actually had people get mad at me for not accepting their apology, which to me says their apology is about assuaging their feelings about their shitty behavior, not about actually apologizing.
Choika at September 25, 2010 2:48 PM
So, I guess the whole point of that post was, maybe a chapter on apologies, what they are and aren't, and what is a sincere apology and what is just someone wanting to make themselves feel better for behaving like an asshat, without actually changing their behavior.
Choika at September 25, 2010 2:51 PM
Regarding the wi-fi- you just have to secure it by using your WEP key. Then only you will have access to your wireless network, which is a good idea anyway.
Eric at September 25, 2010 2:51 PM
Something that baffles me is a comment I first heard from children, but it has metastasized into the excuses of adults. "But I didn't mean to do it!" WTF! You apologize just when you intentionally do harm?
For example, someone sideswipes you off the sidewalk,because they are busy and important, look astonished at your fury, and claim they didn't see you, so why apologize?
At the risk of being redundant- WTF?
siobhan at September 25, 2010 2:52 PM
"I am sorry" is kinda optional if you think about it. All you really want is for someone to admit their mistake...tell you WHY it was a mistake"
That's why making kids apologize doesn't always seem effective. Some of them recite it and don't mean a word of it. Others aren't sorry, and refuse. I'm not sure of an alternative though.
siobhan at September 25, 2010 2:56 PM
"Need more airplane/airport ones if anybody has them."
This shouldn't happen at all, so Hell will freeze over before an apology arrives.
You board the plane toward the end, get to your seat and discover that the overhead space is totally taken by people sitting elsewhere, because they brought too much shit. The FA's shouldn't allow it, and if they do, THEY should bring you your shit from another bin, 400 feet back in the plane the MINUTE they land. Then I won't have to force myself against the flow, so I can get the Hell off the plane, so I won't miss my connection. and people won't get made at ME for justifiably acting like a tool. Besides. I'm small and it's HARD swimming against the tide.
I want 2 frickin' apologies- from the asshole entitled passenger, and the (overworked) FA.
siobhan at September 25, 2010 3:14 PM
I have a scenario that involved an airplane...
A few years back, when my children were roughly 5 and 8, our family was stuck on a flight behind a very loud chatterbox who insisted on dropping the F-bomb at least once a sentence.
Now, I understand that these days people are decidedly lacking in class and cussing in public is commonplace. However, teaching my children manners is a priority to me. As is being able to use the English language without resorting to swear words when the mind is too dull to imagine a more appropriate adjective.
Both of my children sat quietly for the entire trip, my 8 year old colored and my 5 year old read a book and watched his sister draw. Unfortunately, this was a full flight and as we were many miles above the ground, we had no means to escape the potty-mouthed harpy seated in front of us. Needless to say, it was an uncomfortable situation.
My children were much younger and had hardly matured through the age of being able to understand empathy for others and polite behavior. Still they made not a noise through the whole trip. They sat still, said "please" and "thank you" to our stewardess, and spoke in "indoor" voices. And yet the woman seated in front of us cared not a whit for who she might be offending by her incessant cussing.
She reminded me of the drunk at the baseball game who makes going to the park not the carefree and relaxing outing you hope for. Except here she was in an enclosed space, was (I assume) sober and there were no ball players in tight pants for her to heckle.
Jewels at September 25, 2010 3:36 PM
**The whole thing was dumb, but I made it dumber and then I got mad at her for making a premature apology. It was one of the days when I just couldn't win at anything I was doing.
Posted by: ie at September 25, 2010 1:49 PM
Actually, I think you may have been the rude one in this situation, at least judging by what you've written.
First you interrupted her presentation- even if it was "just for a second". Could you not have found another projector, preferably one that wasn't in a room where someone was giving a lecture? And if not, would it not have been better for you to wait for an appropriate break in her talk to ask for hers?
And although what she said might have been rude, she did apologize, quickly and as soon as she realized her mistake. This was the right thing to do. Cutting into her for doing the right thing is just vindictive and does nothing but disuade her from being polite to you in the future.
Jewels at September 25, 2010 3:46 PM
Airline seats recline, but it is badly impolite to recline them. Two inches is OK but useless. Any more turns the seat behind into a prison. There is then no room to read, keep a drink on the tray table, or leave the seat for the washroom.
This is easy to fix. The airlines have to make the seats not recline, or limit the recline, unless the passenger in back agrees.
Andrew_M_Garland at September 25, 2010 4:41 PM
@Jewels: There are only two overheads in that wing of the building. Finding another one would have held me up considerably. I did interrupt politely, as in I did wait until there was a natural pause in her talk. And, she did see me coming into the door and waiting to speak to her. She also knew I was giving a talk at the same time in a room close by, so it wasn't what I would call an ambush.
Sometimes you just have to do these things when a small emergency occurs, and I like to think I handle things with finesse, but apparently something went really wrong that day. For example, I've been interrupted numerous times in the same way and I don't use it as an excuse to shout sarcasm at people.
It was the change in mood and tone, etc,. It was just kind of schizophrenic. Dripping sarcasm at 10 am and almost pathological contrition at 10:15 AM. Very confusing! I think telling my her not to shout at me is okay, I just wish I'd done it a bit less vocally myself!
ie at September 25, 2010 5:18 PM
I knew I'd forgotten something...this woman also kept phoning me and emailing me for days afterward--to apologize--even when I told her I was still upset and didn't want to talk about it. I know it was an "apology", but she wasn't respecting my wishes. It was all about her need to feel better. That sort of behaviour is just manipulative.
ie at September 25, 2010 6:01 PM
Nothing to do with airplanes, but still travel-related: How do American tourists with ripe southern accents pretend to be Canadian tourists?
My parents were on vacation in Greece about 25 years ago. One evening, their tour bus dropped them off in Thessaloniki for dinner. They picked what looked like a nice cozy family restaurant. Apparently their tour bus operator catered mostly to American tourists, so the restaurant staff thought they were Americans, and were so rude & gave them such poor service that they thought about leaving & picking a different restaurant. Then the manager came out, started shouting obscenities about America & Americans in a garbled mix of English & Greek, and pulled out a gun & started waving it around. My terrified mom, who has a very thick Czech accent, was pleading with my dad to get her the hell out of there. When he realized that my parents weren't Yankees, the manager put his gun away & begged them to stay & enjoy his fine food & warm hospitality! By that time, they were headed out the door.
There were many subsequent occasions on that trip when my parents noticed the locals giving poorer service to groups of American tourists than European or Canadian ones, but only once in such dramatic fashion.
Martin (Ontario) at September 25, 2010 6:20 PM
Martin, my understanding is that's pretty common for Greece. They hate Americans and they spent most of the 20th century flirting with the Soviet Union.
My airplane pet peeves involve:
1. Pax who are rude to the FAs for no good reason. In an emergency, I want the FAs calm and clear-headed, not pissed off.
2. People who go to sleep and lean on you.
3. People who insist in putting their carry-ons right up front, instead of near their seats. Not only are they taking someone else's space, but they hold up the exit line when they stop mid-procession to get their stuff out of the bin. Related is the people who bring carry-ons that they cannot physically handle, and the poor guy sitting in the aisle seat on that row gets hit in the head.
4. People who stand around like vultures right in front of the gate, waiting for their turn to board. If you have a higher number, you have to push past them to get to the gate.
5. People who want to lean over and stare at your computer screen to see what you're working on. None of your damn business, pal -- that's why I have the polarizing filter on there so you can't see it.
6. Airport merchants who don't take plastic and won't issue receipts. Makes it damn difficult to account for your meals on your expense report.
Cousin Dave at September 25, 2010 7:46 PM
So, I guess the whole point of that post was, maybe a chapter on apologies, what they are and aren't, and what is a sincere apology and what is just someone wanting to make themselves feel better.
I would love a chapter on this! Good apologies are hard when emotions are high, and, as many have pointed out on here, bad apologies just make things worse.
For example, an apology must never ever ever include an excuse (a lot of people like to call these "reasons" for their behavior).
At my last job, when I was new, I made a big mistake. My manager's way of "training" me was to just let me make mistakes and learn from them. So, eventually, of course, I did make a mistake, which made things difficult for another coworker. Instead of telling me, she sent an e-mail CC'd to several highers-up and a bunch of random mangers and coworkers who had nothing to do with the situation pointing out my mistake and suggesting that it was due to laziness. I replied all and wrote, "I'm so sorry to have created this problem. I'm fixing it right now. This will never happen again." Later, she came over and said, "I'm sorry for sending that e-mail. I've been working long hours lately, and your mistake added about an hour to my workday." Ummm...pretty sure you sent the e-mail because you're a jerk, but, thanks for the apology I guess?
sofar at September 25, 2010 9:22 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758468">comment from sofarGreat stuff, sofar.
All of this is so helpful. Thank you all...going to post more that I'm light in in the coming days.
Here's a roommate things somebody sent me, called "I lick my cheese."
http://www.nerve.com/photofeatures/i-lick-my-cheese
Amy Alkon
at September 25, 2010 9:43 PM
I don't think that giving a reason along with an apology is a bad thing-it helps me understand where you're coming from and (hopefully) why you won't do it again. The caveat is that you should be clarifying the rational behind your behavior-not offering an passive-aggressive excuse for why it wasn't really your fault.
In sofar's case, the coworker could have phrased it better by saying "I'm sorry for sending that email. I've been working long hours lately, and I was stressed out and not thinking clearly. I know that my reaction was inappropriate and it won't happen again." Had she not publicly humiliated you then it might have been appropriate to bring up that your mistake had added an hour to her workday, but at this point she's made the bigger boo-boo so she needs to just suck it up and apologize.
Shannon at September 25, 2010 10:10 PM
Just thought of a problem I am experiencing now regarding an apology.
How do I apologize when someone else's bad behavior reflects on me? Do I pin it on the person who did it? Or do I just apologize because an apology is deserved and the person who behaved badly isn't going to make one?
What happened was, my boyfriend asked me to accompany him to his aunt and uncle's anniversary this weekend. I asked him if he was SURE I was actually invited -- he assured me I was and that this would be the perfect time to meet his family. So, he called his aunt and left her a message saying we were coming.
A few hours later, I got a call from my BF's sister. Their aunt had called her, a bit stressed out, and had asked her to take care of the situation. Turns out, this was a VERY formal event (his family is really fancy about parties) at a nice restaurant with limited seating. Only close family was invited. Significant others were not.
I was mortified and told his sister I completely understood and felt awful. We both joked about my BF being clueless.
Then, his aunt called my boyfriend. She felt bad and had reserved another seat for me. My boyfriend accepted for both of us without asking me first. When he called to tell me the "good news," I told him, I was NOT going to an event where I would be the ONLY significant other at what was meant to be an intimate gathering. I demanded my BF call his aunt to say thank you for thinking of me, but that I understand this is an event for close family and I looked forward to meeting everyone at a later time -- and happy anniversary.
He promised he would and, when I asked him the next day, he said he had told her.
He hadn't (I guess because he just wanted to avoid awkwardness?). The result was a very empty seat and a lot of awkward at dinner. Again, it was his sister that told me afterward.
My boyfriend doesn't think it's a big deal and that I worry too much. I want to apologize in some way. Do I let it blow over? Do I bring it up when I finally DO meet this aunt? Do I send a letter? Call her up? If I do, should I pin this on my boyfriend? Or is that even more rude?
sofar at September 25, 2010 10:18 PM
siobhan: Second that about the overhead space. I would like to see spots labelled by seat number.
I remember travelling one Christmas, where it seemed that everyone was loaded down with three or four items. The airline apparently didn't have the guts to tell people "no", because all the extra stuff was so obviously Christmas presents.
I wound up with my (single) item under my seat, because the overhead was full. Guess what: there is a reason I only ever bring one carry-on, and it's because I want the little bit of leg-room in front of my seat for my legs.
bradley13 at September 26, 2010 12:32 AM
I'd frankly break up with the boyfriend, if this is his normal way of dealing with things. That sounds so fucking annoying. It's also kinda disturbing that he would lie about talking to his aunt straight to your face.
Sam at September 26, 2010 12:39 AM
I actually like putting my bag under the seat in front of me, because it gives me a foot rest. I'm short, and don't know what to do with my feet otherwise, as putting them on the floor stretches me and hurts my back.
I'm lucky I've had good travel experiences over all.
I guess one question, though, is, if the person behind you keeps bumping the back of your feet even after you've asked them to stop, how do you handle it?
I handled it quite rudely once. There was a kid who wouldn't stop kicking me. Finally, after a big kick, I slammed back against the seat. I heard the mother gasp. But the kid stopped kicking.
But there's got to be a better way to handle it.
NicoleK at September 26, 2010 12:45 AM
There were many subsequent occasions on that trip when my parents noticed the locals giving poorer service to groups of American tourists...
This is true in places other than Greece. You will find it in many countries, including most of Latin America.
I remember a trip to the highlands of Mexico - far, far away from the American border. Lovely place, lovely people. Anyway, my Spanish is poor, so I had to speak English for anything complicated. Shopkeepers would therefore assume I was American. As soon as they found out I was from Europe, the prices dropped by 20%.
American foreign policy has often been rude and arrogant. The resulting bias against Americans is a legacy the American population will be living with for generations. The downside of "carrying a big stick" for so many decades.
If you are yourself a tourist abroad, the single most important thing you can do is to learn at least a few words of the language before you go. The stereotypical image of the "ugly American" tourist is the lady I saw in a candy shop in France: she was convinced that if she only SPOKE ENGLISH LOUDLY ENOUGH, the dimwit on the other side of the counter would understand her. The poor girl working the counter was almost in tears.
If you can at least say the pleasantries in the local language, as well as numbers for prices and such, you will go a long ways towards defusing any prejudice.
bradley13 at September 26, 2010 12:50 AM
Shannon,
Re: the situation with your coworker sending you that e-mail is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. She cc'd everyone about your mistake...but apologized in private. She should have apologized AND sent an e-mail to everyone that she'd cc'd repeating the apology.
Sadly, I learned this lesson in elementary school. We had a terrible music teacher who I realized later was really an emotionally messed-up person. A classmate of mine (and I was, maybe 10?) asked a question and for some reason the teacher blew up at her and started screaming, etc. Later on, after the class was over, she called my classmate aside (I was waiting for her to go to lunch together so I overheard) and apologized. Quietly, and only so my classmate could hear - after humiliating this poor child in front of 30 students.
The teacher should have apologized in front of the class. That was one of my first lessons in adult hypocrisy and it really stuck with me.
Coincidentally enough, I had almost exactly the same thing happen to me. I sent a copy of a document to a woman who heads up a department for her to look at. The document had incorrect information in it. She e-mailed me back, copied a whole bunch of other random people, and demanded to know where I had gotten it, it was all wrong, blah blah blah.
It was an official, government-distributed document from a site. From her own agency. When she realized that it wasn't something I had written, she sent me, ONLY ME, an e-mail apologizing. Thanks a lot - now how about e-mailing everyone you cc'd to point out that 1) you were behaving like an idiot and 2) I'm not incompetent?
Choika at September 26, 2010 6:02 AM
"When he called to tell me the "good news," I told him, I was NOT going to an event where I would be the ONLY significant other at what was meant to be an intimate gathering. I demanded my BF call his aunt to say thank you for thinking of me, but that I understand this is an event for close family and I looked forward to meeting everyone at a later time -- and happy anniversary."
That was kind of rude, though. Once she'd gone to the trouble of getting you another seat (which for all you know she had to pay for) you needed to go. And afterwards, send her a very nice hostess gift, explaining yourself in full, sans intermediaries.
momof4 at September 26, 2010 6:21 AM
Problem: how to tell seniors they are boring their families and friends when they repeat stories many, many times? I heard a term on the radio calling this "anecdotage."
Related problem: how to reattach them to the world and shelve the past?
My 80 year-old mother constantly tries to dominate a conversation by retelling decades-old stories to her own children and grandchildren. I'll tell you now she has no dementia or other mental diseases; she's sharp as a ever. It's sad how how her grandkids avoid her. My siblings put up with it, but complain later. Eyerolls from Dad. If I say "Mom, we've heard that story before," she unleashes the tears no matter how sweet and respectful I am.
Just because you're old doesn't mean you get a pass on manners and consideration. I'm 54 and nearing senior status myself. I gave my kids permission to whack me on the head if I ever act like a rude old man.
passepartout at September 26, 2010 7:40 AM
Amy,
I've been a follower of your blog for a while, and I also own a copy of your book, "I see rude people." I happen to really love the book!
I'm in a situation where my husband and I and our children now share a home with his parents. They are both retired. Up until now, we've not had a lot of interaction with them in our adults lives. My husband and I have been together nearly 20 years and are extremely independent. We've never had to rely on them for anything (financially or in bringing up our children). His parents have vowed to refrain from interfering with how we raise our family and live our lives. This is difficult for them because we know they already disapprove of many of our choices; this issue was discussed in great detail before we moved into this shared home. However, they continue with some very annoying passive-aggressive behaviour and then apologize when we catch them at it by saying, "we do not want to interfere, but..."
My mother-in-law is a very emotionally fragile woman. My father-in-law is fiercely protective of her, and may the Universe protect us if we ever make her cry (I've learned that the hard way over the years). I'm bull-headed and not afraid to tell it like it is (politely), except when it comes to them. I'm just not sure how to tactfully and effectively frank honest in telling them to butt out without really hurting them and causing tension between the two families.
If there were any way to avoid this current living situation, it eluded us. We really wouldn't be here unless it were necessary, and I believe it's the same situation for them. For both of us, parting ways is not going to be an option for many years to come. Learning to deal with their passive-aggressive behaviour is going to be key to preserving our sanity in the interim.
Do you have any suggestions?
Peace
LivingWithParents at September 26, 2010 9:41 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758646">comment from LivingWithParentsLivingWithParents, thanks so much for buying my book. A suggestion: Can you come up with a code word or phrase? This can be uttered teasingly/jokingly and should thus diffuse the hurt, etc., that comes up in telling them straight out to not do something. (Kind of like a safe word for people into S&M.)
Amy Alkon
at September 26, 2010 9:49 AM
Amy, thank you for the suggestion. I think that may be a workable solution, kind of a gentle reminder that doesn't automatically put everyone on the defensive. ;) We'll give it a try!
Peace
LivingWithParents at September 26, 2010 11:09 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758701">comment from LivingWithParentsThanks, LivingWithParents. Please let me know how it goes.
Amy Alkon
at September 26, 2010 11:17 AM
Got one. How do you politely determine that someone you're dating is not deep in debt before the relationship has progressed to the point that he/she starts trying to guilt-trip you into "helping" with big bills?
It's not just dates, unfortunately. Poor but well-educated friends everywhere seem to get mad at me because I refuse to let them snatch money or valuables out of my hands, so to speak - and because I'm opposed to borrowing and lending as a rule. I mean, if your financial problems are that bad, what gives you the right to be socializing right now if you can't behave nicely?
(And MY situation isn't currently great, either, and even if I'd just won the lottery, I wouldn't consider it acceptable for people to throw the word "stingy" at someone who doesn't owe them anything.)
lenona at September 26, 2010 12:43 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758729">comment from lenonaThanks, lenona, great.
Amy Alkon
at September 26, 2010 12:54 PM
@momof4, True, she had given me an invitation. Yet the BF's sis had given me to understand that she really really didn't want anyone besides immediate family there and sounded upset on the phone. Added to this is the fact that, in my BF's family's culture, significant others generally do not meet the extended family until the couple is engaged.
Yes I realize I should have taken matters into my own hands, called her up and explained that I understood this was an intimate family gathering, that it was so sweet of her to think of me and that I'd love to meet her someday. I should have made sure well in advance that she'd have time to cancel my seat instead of leaving it to my BF who had already demonstrated that this sort of thing isn't his strong suit.
But I guess I always acted as in intermediary for my BF in social events with MY family (especially before he met them). And I assumed he'd be doing the same for me as well.
But I agree I should have been more proactive.
sofar at September 26, 2010 1:08 PM
@lenona. I never give or lend money to boyfriends. I lent my first BF a few hundred dollars to put down on a car and that was the first and last time I'll ever do it. (I was 16.)
When anyone in my life starts hinting about needing money, I become as quiet and solemn as a church. It kind of freezes them out, if you know what I mean.
I had a roommate once who would shop until she dropped and then not have enough for the rent. There was one time when she actually asked me to call MY parents to help "us" out! We were subletting, so I called the tenant who's name was on the lease and let her know that only my share of the rent would be forthcoming. The tenant called her and I don't know what was said, but whatever it was, my roommate never asked me to cover the rent again. AND she gave me the cold shoulder for a couple of months afterwards.
I know some people who handle the money thing by making it an entirely verboten subject. If you bring it up with them they look like you as if you're discussing some lewd and disgusting act, (and generally, they give a big zero response).
I don't mind talking about money, but only with people I know aren't going to ask me for any. And I don't bring it up with people who are either in a worse financial situation than me or who obviously don't earn as much. It just seems to cruel to complain about having to cut back on Starbucks when the person you're telling is making minimum wage. Just doesn't feel right.
ie at September 26, 2010 3:45 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/i-need-problems.html#comment-1758812">comment from ieThanks to your comments here, I just added this to the "FRIENDS" chapter:
Thanks -- the suggestions of questions and ensuing comments are enormously helpful.
And thanks, sofar...really glad to help.
Amy Alkon
at September 26, 2010 4:36 PM
"How do you deal with neighbors and wifi. Last night I could not connect to mine and I presume it was because 13 other wifi services were visible and so the signals were interfering. Right now I can connect and their are 5 visible. I am not sure how to go about negotiation ... or even who to talk to."
99% of your neighbors with a wireless router installed it with the default settings. There are actually only a few manufacturers of these things, so the chances of your neighbors having one that is the same as yours is high.
Log into your router (it's not hard, and the instructions are on line, or you can call their support number) and change the radio frequency to one end of its range or an other. It might be called a channel. It's not hard to do, and will stop the interference from your neighbor's devices.
Steve Daniels at September 26, 2010 5:09 PM
"Instead of telling me, she sent an e-mail CC'd to several highers-up and a bunch of random mangers and coworkers who had nothing to do with the situation pointing out my mistake and suggesting that it was due to laziness."
Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. OH!
This one makes me grind my molars to powder. If you have some sort of issue with me, take it up with me. If we can't get it resolved, THEN feel free to take it up with my supervisor, but for the love of blowjobs, DON'T START TWISTING MY ARM FROM JUMP STREET!
Trust me, should I have any discretion about how your issue will be resolved, it will go least well for you if you try to make me look bad before I've even had a chance to resolve whatever it is.
Steve Daniels at September 26, 2010 5:21 PM
It's insane when someone tries to shame you in front of a bunch of people like that, sofar. That just was mean. Maybe the co-worker doesn't realize how important it is to get along with everyone. I've worked at the same company for a long time, and some of my managers are newer to the company than I am (I tried doing low-level management and found I didn't like it). It's just as well I was nice to them when they were new. I tend to be nice to people because I'm a nice person, and I've been suprised to find out that this is also good business policy. People are nice back, and you never know who is going to be an important resource person for you 2 years down the road.
About the boyfriend who can't communicate, dump him. Or never let him do the communicating to his family for you. Seems to me that he's willing to throw you under the bus to avoid a little discomfort.
KrisL at September 26, 2010 9:39 PM
@Amy:
•How to turn down a friend who asks to borrow money.
Thanks, but I'm far more interested in how to cut off romantic relationships BEFORE so-and-so even asks me for money and reveals crushing reasons for needing it. (As far as I'm concerned, if you're over 25 and still aren't debt-free and/or don't have a job with benefits, you shouldn't be dating, but many people feel awkward asking about details like that.)
I do believe that postponing sex for marriage can be a good way of sifting out potential users and freeloaders, but I have a hunch that that wouldn't necessarily have worked for the wives of "Clark Rockefeller" and Henry Hill of "Goodfellas." Real smooth types, those men.
lenona at September 27, 2010 1:27 PM
I have noticed a tendency for people to do that whole cc-ing the world when they're angry more and more recently. I'm not sure if this is a new phenomena, or if it's a way for people to make themselves feel OMGimportantz!!!, or if it's just a brand of nastiness particular to the place where I'm currently working. I had it happen again today - an e-mail had mistakenly been sent to someone who had the same exact name, first and last, but wasn't the right person, and instead of responding, someone else on the e-mail chain took it upon themselves to write a nasty note....and CC a random supervisor who wasn't involved at all in the issue.
Choika at September 27, 2010 5:23 PM
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