I have all the respect for Islam that it has for me.

Misunderstanding??? They are taught at a very young age to rid the world of infidels. Basically everyone who is not muslim. Looks like they're off to a great start. See Africa, Afghanistan, Arab nations, Bali, England, France Spain, United States etc... It's right in everyones' faces and the writing is on the wall.

Can anyone say denial?

I seem to remember hearing (maybe here?) that many - or most - Muslims are rightfully afraid to speak in public against terrorism for fear of being targeted.

They are doing exactly as they say they will, why are we so suprized about that? As far as their rights, they get them, AND THE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT GO WITH THEM. Nobody seems to remember that part. If they can't meet those responsibilities, well then we will need to think...

"are we "misunderstanding" Muslims like the NYT claims?"

Yes. Next question.

"Can anyone say denial?"

How about irony? hypocrisy?

Look, I get it. We love an enemy we can hate in toto, without having to pick out the good ones from the bad. We haven't had one since the Nazis, and our patience is wearing thin.

But...well, ok, here...

"The violence they have perpetrated against us, the way they have brought down the country with the behavior, even the ones who silently support the violent ones by not speaking out, present a danger strong enough to warrant elimination of their culture as a whole"

If that statement was made about any group on Earth that weren't Muslims, it would be tarred as the most horrific hate speech imaginable. Yet somehow, if it's Muslims one is speaking about, those broad brushes get a workout they haven't had since the 60's.

The "cheap" view mentioned above is likely far more connected to the fact the people live in a nearly third-world society, in grinding poverty, often only a brief walk from wealth and opulence. Poverty so bad that they would sacrifice body parts to move UP to the position of the poorest of Americans. For them, life IS cheap, because it's so easily lost the value is degraded to nothing.

And still there are Muslims who don't try to kill every infidel they see. Imagine that.

As long as people say "Muslims" with no qualifier, caveat or codicil, I will continue to ignore their arguments. Are SOME Muslims truly dangerous? Yes, as a result of what they have been (mis)taught, from birth, as has been said. And here in America, that vanishingly small percentage is even smaller. It's because it's so small that a) they're so hard to find and b) we haven't been attacked every day on every street corner from every falafel stand.

IT'S NOT EVERY ONE OF THEM.

Until you grasp and accept that, you're providing more ammunition to the folks who are successfully convincing those young swarthy men that America hates them. You may not be as far gone as the pastor in Florida planning to burn korans this weekend, but you're looking for the flag he's waving so you don't get lost in the crowd.

Peretz fails U.S. Constitution 101: "privileges of the First Amendment". No such thing.

Small problem there Vinnie, the muslims who dont try to kill every infidel dont say shit to the ones that do.

Take that jackass Phelps and his Westboro church - most of the christians I know is quite vocal in their opinion that he should have his vocal cords cut and his legs broken. They revile the man and his message.

Where ae the muslim who ahve dont that? Their either dead or in hiding.

For christs sake, Malcom X was murdered by AMERICAN muslims for telling a reporter of the horrible things he saw being done in the name of islam and that muslims who werent part of the churches internal political structures needed to start thinking for themselves and stop doing what ever they were ordered to do without question.

Do you get it yet? The kill people who speak out, they kill people who oppose them, all they do is kill, and the ones who dont kill are terrified sheep who stand by and do nothing. Coullders, collaberaters, and quislings are no better the the invading barbarians themselves, they are willing partners and just as responsible for the atrocites - quite frankly many would make the argument that such cowards are far worse the the invaders.

After all they are passivly, and in many cases activly, helping to destroy the only people who would never have harmed them for their beleifs and would have protected them from those who would

"the muslims who don't try to kill every infidel don't say shit to the ones that do."

Largely true, and agreed. There has been much less speaking out against the Bad Muslims from the Good Muslims. But if it is due to fear as opposed to agreement, it is more..."understandable", as opposed to acceptable. Let he who has never kept his mouth shut in situations where it would have been dangerous or detrimental to speak cast the first stone.

But talk to an average American Muslim (if you have an opportunity, or can find one) and I'll lay odds they'll make it clear they don't agree with acts of terrorism. They or their leaders may not have the ability (or bravery, if you insist) to speak more publicly, but it doesn't mean they support it.

"They kill people who speak out, they kill people who oppose them"

Has happened, tho not terribly often, thankfully, but agreed in theory.

It's clear that the more violent acts of people purporting to speak for Islam have to be stopped. It's arguable that the more misogynistic practices of Islam SHOULD be changed to reflect the more enlightened times of the modern world. That's going to take a long time. The Catholic Church only stopped using Latin a few decades ago, and still won't allow women to have a role in the clergy except as nuns or extraordinary ministers. But there are people trying to enlighten the rest of the world, and ironically, one of the is the guy trying to build Park 51. And he's getting thanked by being thrown in with the folks whose minds he's trying to change. Classy.

In short, by lumping Muslims and Terrorists together, we're making it easier for the recruiters to point to us and do the same - say that ALL Americans think ALL Mislims are the enemy.

My standpoint on this issue is (I hope) clear - there are absolutely issues with certain interpretations of Islam that are dangerous and must be stopped. But it is not 100%, it is not CLOSE to 100%, and every time I hear people acting and talking as if it is, I will stand up and drive home that point.

Unless someone threatens to blow me up, of course.

Let he who has never kept his mouth shut in situations where it would have been dangerous or detrimental to speak cast the first stone.
-Vinnie Bartilucci

With an attitude like that this country wouldnt exist, and the catholic church would still be the supreme political power in the western world.

An attitude like that says we shouldnt ever say anythng anyone migth find offenseive.

Well fuck that - until run of the mill muslims start standing up for themselves, fight against, and turn in those willing and planning to kill they ARE the enemy.

Student groups pushing for segregated cafiterias and gym classes, in england they succseffully shut down PUBLIC pools to give an entire day over to muslim women, the block the streets of paris to preform prayers - and act that were they not muslim would have them arrested for having such a large gathering without the proper permit.

Dont you get it Vinnie? They are the enemy becuase they are helping the enemy.

Can anyone say denial?

Isn't that a river in Egypt?

I have no problem with Muslims. I'll even say the Ground Zero Mosque is fine. That will be the same day that Christians and Jews open churches and temples in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. with no fear of reprisal. That will also be the same day that carrying a bible with you in the open in an Islamic country doesn't cause you to fear for your life.

As for the idiot wanting to burn the koran -- he has the legal right -- but he is just as wrong as those who want to build the GZM.

I'm mostly the atheist viewpoint. I ignore it unless you start proselytizing to me. I will be polite and tell you no, as long as you can accept no as an answer. If not then I will be rude. But you have the right to your belief. The issue is that devout Muslims don't believe that you don't have the right to be Christian or Jewish.

I think they are terribly rude and inhumane when they print their meaningless islamic greeting to us nonbelievers or when they tried to push their disgusting totalitarian islamic agenda. I think we, the nonbelievers have to assert that that we, the nonbelievers have the right to be freethinkers and should not be force to buy their dangerously inferior islamic nonsense or their evil hypocrisy.