The Not-So-Free Exercise Of Religion
Hitchens, on Slate, points out that religious tolerance has always had its limits, and that taming religion has always been one of the chores of civilization:
Take an example close at hand, the absurdly named Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. More usually known as the Mormon church, it can boast Glenn Beck as one of its recruits. He has recently won much cheap publicity for scheduling a rally on the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s March on Washington. But on the day on which the original rally occurred in 1963, the Mormon church had not yet gotten around to recognizing black people as fully human or as eligible for full membership. (Its leadership subsequently underwent a "revelation" allowing a change on this point, but not until after the passage of the Civil Rights Act.)...Now to Islam. It is, first, a religion that makes very large claims for itself, purporting to be the last and final word of God and expressing an ambition to become the world's only religion. Some of its adherents follow or advocate the practice of plural marriage, forced marriage, female circumcision, compulsory veiling of women, and censorship of non-Muslim magazines and media. Islam's teachings generally exhibit suspicion of the very idea of church-state separation. Other teachings, depending on context, can be held to exhibit a very strong dislike of other religions, as well as of heretical forms of Islam. Muslims in America, including members of the armed forces, have already been found willing to respond to orders issued by foreign terrorist organizations. Most disturbingly, no authority within the faith appears to have the power to rule decisively that such practices, or such teachings, or such actions, are definitely and utterly in conflict with the precepts of the religion itself.
Reactions from even "moderate" Muslims to criticism are not uniformly reassuring. "Some of what people are saying in this mosque controversy is very similar to what German media was saying about Jews in the 1920s and 1930s," Imam Abdullah Antepli, Muslim chaplain at Duke University, told the New York Times. Yes, we all recall the Jewish suicide bombers of that period, as we recall the Jewish yells for holy war, the Jewish demands for the veiling of women and the stoning of homosexuals, and the Jewish burning of newspapers that published cartoons they did not like. What is needed from the supporters of this very confident faith is more self-criticism and less self-pity and self-righteousness.
Those who wish that there would be no mosques in America have already lost the argument: Globalization, no less than the promise of American liberty, mandates that the United States will have a Muslim population of some size. The only question, then, is what kind, or rather kinds, of Islam it will follow. There's an excellent chance of a healthy pluralist outcome, but it's very unlikely that this can happen unless, as with their predecessors on these shores, Muslims are compelled to abandon certain presumptions that are exclusive to themselves.
The point that Hitchens seems to miss is that certain religions allow themselves to be tamed or cooperate Take the two articles of faith from the LDS/Mormon Religion
#11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
#12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
AND Compare that with Islam. Islam and the Koran says that only Jews and Christians have the privilege to worship (under certain guidelines), all others like Hindu and Buddhist well you are not given the privilege.
Next being subject to government and laws well as long as it is a Islamic government - fine. If not they will if they are a good Muslim try to overthrow or change the government.
Know as to other religions and scriptures and rules, I have little experience with. But still Hitchens is comparing apples to oranges. Some religions will grow well to poorly in certain soils thus those Apples (Jews, Mormons, Scientology) will do well in a moderate temperature orchard (USA) but oranges (Muslim) will not grow well.
John Paulson at September 7, 2010 1:47 AM
Islam (in the Quran) commands the conversion or death of the infidel, and Hitchens knows that. Also, he knows that democracy is incompatible with Islam. The Quran is to be taken literally as the word of god. I don't know how Muslims will get around that.
Amy Alkon at September 7, 2010 5:07 AM
John Paulson: A small quibble about the "where" in your #11 above. The First Amendment permits everyone to believe whatever one wants. The First Amendment gives no one the right to practice where ever one pleases. You cannot for example practice your religion on my front lawn. Even churches must pass zoning restrictions, etc.
Nick at September 7, 2010 7:31 AM
Governments have always controlled and restricted religions or used them to their ends to control their populace. Even Islam and the way it is practiced is subject to the control of individual governments, from Syria and Turkey's secularist governments to Saudi Arabia's monarchy and Iran's theocracy. Left unchecked, religions foster intolerance and violence against nonbelievers resulting in wars and bloodshed, which is why they have to be reigned in in some way.
Tony at September 7, 2010 8:25 AM
"Some of its adherents follow or advocate the practice of plural marriage, forced marriage, female circumcision, compulsory veiling of women, and censorship of non-Muslim magazines and media."
I've commented before that I don't know of any organized religions that put women on equal ground with men. But with Islam, they actually seem to be terrified of us! That's what it keeps coming back to for me--that they're afraid.
Of course, bullies are cowards, so they're ya go.
Pricklypear at September 7, 2010 8:56 AM
Crap! Even as I pushed the submit button, I saw that "they're" there. Too much long weekend.
Pricklypear at September 7, 2010 8:58 AM
Eeeewwww religion! Did Y'all see where Hitchens references the herpes death as a result of some f**ked up ritual where some gross old dude with ringlets whose dressed like the trench coat mafia cuts off a babies foreskin and then sucks the blood off. That's some sorry excuse for some pedophilia!
@Amy: props to you for tackling the most disgusting subject ever! I can barely stomach reading about religion for an hour or so. Sometimes I just get bored though. Like oh really? Repression leads to internalized issues and manifests as violent acts towards others...Wow!
Gspotted at September 7, 2010 10:48 AM
We're all making a category mistake. Islam isn't a religion. It's a loosely organized criminal culture that happens to have some metaphysical beliefs. It is incurably secular and intends to replace other secular institutions. Being Muslim is a lot more like being in the Mafia or living in a Mafia controlled neighborhood than it is like being Episcopalian.
Richard Mush at September 7, 2010 4:46 PM
Once again Judaism shows its uniqueness to the world.
People are bothered by other religions because they're always proselytising. Other relgisions care that other people don't follow their faith and want to teach them the error of their ways. Other religions just won't leave people alone. Even athiests proselytise demanding other people abandon faith altogether.
Judaism is not a proselytising religion. Jewish faith is for the Jews, and whatever faith other people have is their business and Jews don't care. However, Jews are bothered by other people because people just refuse to leave the Jews alone.
hadsil at September 7, 2010 7:23 PM
Read your scriptures again hadsil, there was a time when jews converted others. Recal the invasion of the land "promised to them by god"?
Theyd kill all the men and women who had sex, and take the virgins and children (except of theoe instances where god commanded them to kill the children) and rasie them and their offspring as jews
lujlp at September 8, 2010 5:04 AM
Also when was the last time you saw hindu, shinto, buddist, or confcianism?
lujlp at September 8, 2010 5:11 AM
That sould say "when was the last time you saw missionaries for
lujlp at September 8, 2010 5:27 AM
You do get some Buddhist beggars. TONK TONK TONK TONK. About twice a month I hear or see some guy dressed all up in Grey go into a store and stand for a minute tonking hopping for some money. Also Confucionism is less a religion and more a way of society and government. Which can so go one one way towards helping a country to ruining.
John Paulson at September 8, 2010 9:50 PM
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