What happened to the girl who took the pictures and is also in the video? Since legally she was an adult, shouldn't she also be charged for her part? (Not that I agree that anyone should bne charged but lets at least try for some consistancy) Or is this some more, "all men are pedophiles" shit?

The whole thing is absurd.

Welcome to the other side of the looking glass, beware the Mad Hatter, he's been elected to office.

My eyes were opened when I read that, since we privatized our prison systems in the US, the number of prisoners has doubled.

Running prisons is big business and the corporations that run them have lobbyists who petition politicians for "get tough on crime" laws such as three strikes and mandatory minimums.

They have also eliminated most of the job training programs and drug / alcohol programs in prison even through statistics show that substance abuse plays a big role in crime (I had a prosecutor tell me about 75% of people in prison are in for something related to substance abuse.

Instead of getting people off their addictions and teaching them skills they can use on the outside to get honest work and build a new life, some prisons even put them to work for the benefit of other companies... doing things like running sales call centers... putting more profit into the pockets of the prison corporation.

It's PROFITABLE to the system to have a high recidivism rate so they can get more prisoners, and we TAXPAYERS foot the bill for these incarcerations.

We have options now we didn't have 100 years ago. When prisons were instituted the only way to control the criminals was to incarcerate them.

Now we have ankle braclets, drug screening, GPS, and other technology that we could utilize instead.

In my opinion the only people who should be in prison are those who commit violent crime, those who insist on continually committing crime, and those who commit high dollar crime (like Madoff).

Everyone else should be financially penalized (fines garnished from future wages), given sentences of community service and put to work as labor in necessary industries that have a hard time finding workers who are documented. Farm labor comes to mind.

I don't have a problem with prisons putting people to work... I think they should. But frankly, I think we should only be putting the kind of people in prison that should never get out.

"I absolutely think prisoners should pay for their prison stay -- not the taxpayers. Also, they should be made to pay restitution to their victims."

Ever heard the old saying "you can't get blood out of a turnip?" It goes double for most prison inmates. If they had financial resources they most likely would not be in prison to begin with.

And over half the prison population is in prison for victimless crimes like drug possession. Who is the victim here and what kind of restitution are you going to make them pay?

I agree with Sue. And I'm curious about the motivations of the prosecutor who threw Rinehart under the bus (of course, his gf did that too). Might be a Bible Belt thing.

I've also heard / read that "sex offender" is a term that covers violent psychopaths and people whose only crime might be bad judgement.

So at 16 you're old enough to consent to sex but not to having naked photos or videos taking of you? That doesn't make sense.

Ooops, should be "taken of you"

Here is a link to the Bureau of Justice statistics. Sorry to not offer much analysis of the info as I'm busy working, but it states that more than half the prison population are prisoners convicted of a violent crime.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/corrtyp.cfm

While I can agree that the law is ridiculous- If an idividual is old enough to consent, she should also be considered an "adult" for photograhy purposes- I'm not sure I feel sorry for a cop who knowingly breaks the law.

And as a parent, if one of my husband's cop buddies starts f*cking my daughter and taking naked pictures of her while she's a SOPHMORE in highschool, you can bet your ass I'm going after him legally.

Pornography involving sexually mature teenager should not carry the same minimum sentence as that which involves a small child. There shouldn't be minimum sentences. Suggested minimums, perhaps, but not legal minimums.

And if you do charge prisoners for their stay without the kind of coercion that has been adjudicated as unconstitutional by the supreme court, how are you going to make them pay again? Put them back in jail again and not let them out? A system much better than we have now within the legal framework that currently exists is a pipe dream on the order of the same magnitude as thinking that boycotting a specific gas station will cause the price of oil to come down.

You're asking for sense on this from a culture that says you're old enough at eighteen to die for your country, but not old enough to drink at your wedding.

You're old enough at 21 to choose the leader of the free world, but not to rent a car.

You're old enough at 16 to consent to sex, but not commit any of it to film or pixels. Makes perfect sense.

Go for the trifecta: get married at 17, and get a picture of you boning your 17 year old wife with a bottle of champagne and a pair of glasses in the background. Whole lot of people going to jail for that!

@ahw -

The appropriate thing to do if you disapprove of your daughter's dalliances with a much older man is to tell them both to cut the shit.

sorry now pity for the cop, he knew they were jail bait and did the deed anyway. If I were the girl's father, he would have had a midnight visit with a blunt instrument and a pair of scissors

Guy is a cop, even if he gets out for good behavior, 13 yrs on the inside as a cop and a child molester?

$20 says he doenst live to see his parole hearing.

He should have demanded a jury trail. If he had the prosecuter probably wouldnt have filed charges just kept them hanging over his head.

And while people might hate child pornographers I have a hard time beleiving not one guy out of the twelve jurors wouldnt have wondered "why are we being asked to send him to prison for taking pictures of someone he was leagally able to have sex with"

Luj, I doubt that would have helped. Judges have taken to threatening juries if they go for nullification.

And while people might hate child pornographers I have a hard time beleiving not one guy out of the twelve jurors wouldnt have wondered "why are we being asked to send him to prison for taking pictures of someone he was leagally able to have sex with"

I suspect the thought process was more like, "The sex may be legal, but at least we can send him up the river for the pictures."

The only reason to have juries at all IS nullification. They are the last desperate defense against unjust laws

brian: Most of the problem with under-21 people not being able to rent cars is not, however, laws.

It's that people under 21 tend to be horrible drivers, and that it's not worth the rental company's time and risk to deal with them.

(I rented a car when I was 18, and drove it a few thousand miles, but that was Some Time Ago.)

We shouldn't confuse "culture" and "laws"; the "culture" at large doesn't think 18 year olds shouldn't be able to drink.

The State, combined with a few nanny organizations and some hysteria, does.

sorry now pity for the cop, he knew they were jail bait and did the deed anyway.

Ronc, the whole point is they weren't jailbait. Age of consent 16. If you don't like it, get that law changed. "The deed" is not the issue here. And ask yourself - if having sex with them was ok in the eyes of the law, what additional harm was done by photos that no one else saw? If you had actually read the article, you would know that it was only the photos that led to the conviction, he could have screwed them all day together or separately and had no case to answer if there was no camera involved. Probably could have sent them explicit photos of himself and that would have been fine too.

Sabrina, that's a good question - why weren't the girls charged as well?

Oh, and luj, I for one won't take your bet. I agree, the guy has virtually no chance of coming out any other way than feet first. Maybe he's a predator, maybe not - but an effective death sentence seems a pretty harsh punishment.

I suppose ltw, but the fact is this cop is a f'ing predator, and he likes to prey on not quite mature girls, Jeebus, the fact that he was hitting on the low hanging fruit should tell all of you something, this dude is sick and I for one am glad he went away

Three things obscured by the article:

1. Judge Hamilton was not required to sentence via the Federal Guidelines, which were deemed "advisory-only" in 2005 (US v. Booker). Unless there is some procedural twist here (and I admit to not having read the sentencing opinion) I can't understand why a Judge would go on record saying he disagrees with his own sentence when he clearly has the power to modify it.

2. Author writes: "Under Indiana (and federal) law, they were adults" without any citation for the federal aspect of this assertion. The whole point of the case is that, under federal law, the girls were not above 18, which is the age of consent for video/images.

3. Don't care what state he's in, this chump's a moron for taking nudie pictures of minors. Some pity, but not a lot.

upon further review (and actually reading the opinion), I answered my own questions:

1. this particular mandatory minimum sentence IS in fact required by the statute (Sec. 2251) and was not a product of the now-advisory guidelines. Whoops!

2. in federal territories, the age of consent for sex is apparently 16! Yowza. This was what the author meant. Still, the age of consent for producing pictures of sex is 18.

3. no change.

Maybe not prison, but the man showed some spectacularly poor judgement, the likes of which means he has no business being a cop. Or in any position of power.

And, shouldn't he have known the law, given he s (was) in charge of enforcing it? I simply can't feel sorry for him. SOrry for the money the taxpayers spent, sure, but not for him.

And, shouldn't he have known the law, given he s (was) in charge of enforcing it?

Nope, cop are not encourage to know the law, if they knew the law then when they violated it they'd have no 'good faith' excuse

Jeebus, the fact that he was hitting on the low hanging fruit should tell all of you something, this dude is sick and I for one am glad he went away

Strange things happen sometimes ronc. I went to a friend's 21st last year and a 17 year old friend of hers (I'm 37) kissed me. Not as a result of me talking her into anything, it just happened. It never went any further, but under other circumstances, who knows? Am I sick? And think to yourself - who had the power and decision making role in that brief encounter (hint - not me).

If you're going to set age of consent laws, then you can't criticise the results. He did nothing wrong, certainly nothing that deserves a 15 year stint in prison.

Several months ago I commented on sex offender recidivism rates and generally got pilloried because I admitted I was an SO.

Just want to say that I did 6 years in Fed & state prisons and never even had a fight. I came out humbled and chastized, but not dead. Being a cop will cause him more probs than being an SO, but he'll most likely get put in PC. Some of you watch too much Lock Up Raw, but I watch it too.

One of the regs here suggested I do my family and society a favor and murder myself. Obviously, I didn't take that advice. Instead, I finished my 3 years of Fed Supervised Release, which included weekly therapy (and twice yearly polygraphs.) I learned a lot about myself, and about sexual propriety and boundaries.

The crimes I committed may not have been illegal in some states, but I knew they were illegal in mine and I knew I was breaking Fed laws. I was arrogant and selfish, and I paid the price. I definitely learned my lesson, and I am a responsible, productive member of society today. I'm not mad at anyone and hope no one is mad at me.

The sex offenders lists are a joke. They essentially equate the former 18 year old (now 25) that f'ed his girlfriend with the serial rapist that was finally caught 15 years later.

I will agree with the stupidity of the cop -- but until she pixelated it -- there was no crime. Add to it that he loaned a camera out is technically not a crime.

I still have an old computer that I downloaded the crap out of the alt.sex channels on it. I am sure that there is illegal stuff in there. But that computer's last boot was somewhere around 2007. But at the same time if I have pictures of Traci Lords -- I have illegal content.

They were out to get this guy. Examples are bad law.

This hits really close to home for me. I live in Indiana and my parents dealt with similar circumstances. I am embarassed about this story, but I got pregnant with my first son when I was 16. His dad was a 25-year-old man (if you can call him that) I worked with. I had hidden very well the fact that I was even seeing someone and when MY dad found out what was going on, he immediately called a cousin of his that is a detective with our local police department. My dad demanded that my baby's father be found and immediately arrested. My dad then received the bad news that 16 is in fact age of consent in our state. My dad blew his top, as the age to buy any adult-type media in Indiana is 18. I still remember Dad bellowing into the phone: "You mean my daughter is old enough to go out and play with dicks, but CAN"T EVEN BUY A PICTURE OF ONE?!?!?!" As far as I know nothing has changed, but my dad wrote letter after letter to our legislators fervently after that. He couldn't even get the attention of the conservative republicans in the house. I take a lot of the responsibility, don't get me wrong. I knew what was right and I chose to ignore that, believing (as a VERY sheltered and naieve teenager) all the BS the man was filling my head with: promises of marriage, and "oh, don't worry, I can't make babies." Some men really are predators, but some teenage girls will prey on grown men as well.

This is a tough one. If you're asking is it ridiculous that legally he can fuck her but not take her picture then yes, that is ridiculous. However, a 34 year old police officer sleeping with a girl he's known since she was a kid sounds a lot like taking advantage of a parental type of relationship. It is were my daughter, no, the justice system would never had a chance after I was done. Just because the law is stupid doesn't mean I have any sympathy for this man. Its typical of the attitude some cops have which is they can do what they want and take what they want because they are above the law. Not this time Buddy!

Why is it when it comes to sex everyones brain shuts off?

"Why is it when it comes to sex everyones brain shuts off?"

Because if it wasn't one of the strongest biological urges, overriding our common sense, the human race would have gone extinct long ago and we would not be here talking about it.

Jesus Christ! I can't believe that anyone posting to this forum is defending a pedophile. The outrage should be that the laws in Indiana put the age of consent at sixteen.

Has anyone here had a sixteen year old daughter? They are a complete mess and couldn't be further from having the logic necessary for an adult relationship.

This mother fucker is a disgusting predator. I think he should have been given 40 years at least. That way his tiny little shriveled dick would be powerless by the time he was stalking our communities' high schools again.

Thank God that some DA in Indiana, who should be reelected time and again, had the good sense to find a way to put this repulsive loser away somewhere. I hope he's enduring daily beatings, raping, and all manner of human suffering.

Fuck him, and fuck anyone who would defend him.

16 yr olds have been having sex for hunndreds of thousands of years, theve been having babies too.

The only reason you think of him as a pedophile(not the correct term fyi as pedophiles are sexually attraced to pre pubecents and children) is because you were raised in a culture that largly defines 18 as the age of consent.

Had you been raised in a society that veiwed 25 as the age of consent you would be just as upset with a guy his age having had sex with a 23yr old

Not only would I defend him, I applaud him. Any man who can get a little free tail from a perfectly legal source should do so.

"16 yr olds have been having sex for hunndreds of thousands of years, theve been having babies too"

This argument is ridiculous.

We're talking about a 34 year old man in today's society taking advantage of a 16 year old child. That's some sick shit. I'm going to assume you're above the age of thirty. Are you sexually attracted to 16 year olds?

If so, you're a fucking sicko.

Had this guy been seventeen years old or so, then I'd be rallying to his cause.

Brian,

You're a fucking sicko.

Regards,
whistleDick

I am 31, and yes I am attracted to physicaly mature women - no matter their age.

You are attracted too, you just wont admit it.

If I were to show you two photos of teenagers and tell you one is 16 and on is 19, are you really going to say yo'd know which is which and only be attacted to the 19yr old?

You dont strike me as being that stupid.
And no my argument wasnt ridiculas, were it not for hunnders of thousands of years of older men fucking younger women none of us would be here now

"If I were to show you two photos of teenagers and tell you one is 16 and on is 19, are you really going to say you'd know which is which and only be attacted to the 19yr old?"

No, I wouldn't pretend to know which is which. But I could definitely tell you that they were both children.

Apparently, I'm in the minority.

I'm forty years old. I could no sooner be turned on by a nineteen year old than I could be turned on by a monkey.

When I was thirty-one? Same thing. I guess I'm just a freak, but I like women rather than children with tits.

On second thought, I'd bet I could pick out the 19 year old from the 16 year old, though I wouldn't be attracted to either. That's a pretty significant age difference given that period of development for a young woman.

I'm sort of with whistdick on this one. I don't have a problem with the age of consent being 16. I'm surprised if there are many 16 year old virgins out there. My problem is with a man in his 30's, especially a police officer, thinking that sleeping with a 16 year old is a reasonable thing to do. He should know better. And while I don't agree that he is a pedophile because as luj pointed out, pedophiles are attracted to children, he is a predator. Obviously he can't handle women his own age or within a reasonable age range, so he preys on teens who are needy and desperate for attention. Its just sick.

"I'm forty years old. I could no sooner be turned on by a nineteen year old than I could be turned on by a monkey."

You're just plain sick, thinking of interspecies boning...

...and I think you're just plain lying.

Emma Watson is a fine example of a cute girl who has grown into an intelligent and well-behaved lady, apparently more sensible than the bulk of women in the public eye and serious credit to anyone who associates with her.

But don't let your good sense, that she should seek a partner near her own age, someone with whom she can grow, make you lie to me that you don't think she's hot.

Sexual appeal is not based on revolutions of the Earth but on curves and evidence of abundant good health.

-----

Now, look at the outrage. Some people are so upset that someone had sex, but not by their rules, that they want imprisonment or death for the elder in this case.

It's like I've said before: sex is more important than murder.

And that's a public illness. Before you tell your 10-year-old it's not a good thing to watch Anthony Hopkins feed Ray Liotta his own brains for breakfast, you'd better teach her or him how to behave when the Moon is full. I'm sure you get it.

Rad, I hardly think we live in a Puritan society. I'm a pretty open minded person but can't see how outrage over a 34 year old cop having sex with a 16 year old girl could be considered a bad thing. Kids today are sent so many mixed messages regarding sex and in that respect I do feel they need the protection of adults. A predator lurking is worthy of public outrage. I don't think sex is more important than murder but I didn't know it was a contest or that we could only be pissed about one and not the other.

I'm 33. Anyone think I should be boning Beiber? He's 17. There is no way I could look at him sexually-he is a KID. I can't even find Zac Afron sexually attractive, and I'm pretty sure he's in his early 20's. And I see no difference in a man looking at a 16 year old girl that way. Something is wired wrong in his brain. Society is right to attempt to weed these people out as we find them, just like we're right to do away with murderers.

Jesus Christ, some girls don't even have their period yet at 16! I bet ex isn't surprised in the least.

Not to mention the inherent power differential in a cop and a teenager. It's like a teacher-you simply can't consent while they have power over you.

"I'm outraged about a lot of things, but if they're legal, they're legal. And since consensual sex between them is legal, consensual sharing of sexy photos has no business being prosecuted as child porn."

There's a difference though between legal and right. No, I don't think its child porn either and I did state earlier that I think its a stupid law but I can't really say I feel any sympathy for this man.
On a side note, Amy, I emailed you recently about a very similar situation minus the pics. Didn't you think that was criminal? Is this case different because you think he was punished not for the actual sex act but for the pics? I'm curious as to where the line is drawn.

I'm amazed that so many people here don't realize that a 16 year old girl is a child.

Jesus Christ, some girls don't even have their period yet at 16! I bet ex isn't surprised in the least.

In what country? Most of the girls around here have gotten their first visit from the boob fairy before they hit middle school.

Not to mention the inherent power differential in a cop and a teenager. It's like a teacher-you simply can't consent while they have power over you.

So you're saying cops should remain celibate? Please. Now you're being hysterical.

On second thought, I'd bet I could pick out the 19 year old from the 16 year old, though I wouldn't be attracted to either. That's a pretty significant age difference given that period of development for a young woman.

Bullshit. You look at Taylor Swift and tell me she's not a woman. You look at Shirley Bassey and tell me that she looks 70. Either you're impotent or you're gay. Actually, no. Even gay guys think Taylor Swift is hot.

I'm amazed that so many people here don't realize that a 16 year old girl is a child.

For some people, if she's 16 and childless, she's an old maid.

You have to get over your idea that anyone below some arbitrary age you choose is an infant. At 16 we allow them to decide for themselves if they want to stay in school, we allow them to get jobs, we allow them to drive cars.

"So you're saying cops should remain celibate? Please. Now you're being hysterical"

No. She is saying that police officers should not be fucking the neighborhood children.

"Bullshit. You look at Taylor Swift and tell me she's not a woman."

Really? You look at Taylor Swift and think she isn't a kid? Like I said, maybe I'm some sort of a freak, but I couldn't possibly be turned on sexually by someone as girlish as Taylor Swift. I don't know anyone in my peer group that thinks of Taylor Swift sexually. A lovely, talented young lady perhaps, but certainly not someone to lust after. As for the other one, I don't know who she is.

"...but the fact remains, it's legal in his state"

It may be legal, but it's fucking sick and the state law is fucking sick and needs to be changed. I understand your point that there are inconsistencies between the state and federal laws. I'm just thankful that the DA was creative enough to put this fucker away. This cop knew that he was being a predator when he was doing it.

As a female poster put it earlier, would you be attracted to Justin Beiber? He's widely considered to be a "hunk" among his age group. Would you fuck him? Of course not.

Brian,

Okay, I went and googled Shirley Bassey. Man, I'd fuck the shit out of that. She's seventy? Wow.

So your point is that some women defy their age? In the case of Ms. Bassey, point taken. However, she's clearly a woman and not a girl. Were I to sleep with her, it wouldn't involve a predatory element. In fact, I'll bet that woman has some tricks up her sleeve that would make my dick spin.

Well, I'm off to stalk Shirley Bassey. Damn, that woman is sexy as shit. Thanks for the tip.

Rad,

I also didn't know who Emma Watson was and also googled her. Thats the girl from the Harry Potter movies, right? Yes, she's very pretty. But in the same way that my daughters are very pretty. I couldn't imagine being sexually attracted to her. I remember taking my children to those Harry Potter movies and, yes, I thought, "wow, that little girl is very pretty." Pretty does not mean sexy.

You think I'm lying, really? This girl gives you a boner? Man, that's creepy.

Jesus Christ, some girls don't even have their period yet at 16! I bet ex isn't surprised in the least.

And some girls get them at 10, and some dont get them til their mid 20's

Tell you what whistleDick, I'm going to take you up on your offer, tomorrow I'll provide the links for half a dozen photos or so and you tell me whos underage, whos not and whos too close to the line

Deal?

While I'm sure that there are some 16 year old girls that look older and are very sexy, the point that is getting missed is that this cop knew the one girl through a co-worker. He knew her age. He was a friend of her father's. He, if I'm correct, knew her as she was growing up, maybe not from infancy, but long enough that his feelings for her should have been protective and not wolfish. My son brought home a friend who was playing in his band. They were all 15 and hs friend could have easily passed for 18. All the mothers there looked at him and laughed at the gorgeous jail bait. And then we went about our business because while he was a very sexy kid, he was a kid, and I knew him as a friend to my son. I certainly wasn't going to fuck him when he turned legal.

"but if they're legal, they're legal"

A lot of things have been legal throughout history that we cringe at now. Justifying one's actions by "But it's not illegal" is the last gasp of a knowingly-guilty (in "right" if not law) person.

Brian, the whole "now you're being hysterical" thing is beneath you. There's a vast difference in saying people in authority should not fuck those they have authority over, and in saying they need to be celibate. That's why we frown on high school teachers fucking 17 year olds in their history class.

Taylor Swift is a kid. It's obvious from looking at her, reading about her actions, and hearing her music. I worry about some of the commenters here, I really do.

And at 16, we do NOT allow them to decide if they are staying in school.

And Amy, are you really taking refuge behind the "It was legal for him to fuck her" bit? Because then you have to admit it was ILLEGAL for him to have the pics, and he belongs in prison. The law is the law after all, right?

wD - interesting handle for a guy who is outraged at this topic - is now only interested in used cars, not new ones.

How old do they have to be to be interesting, now? How many miles on the chassis, previous partners must they have in your book?

By the way, my own daughter is 29 and has been turning heads her whole life - hmm, 29, that's not so far from 40... I've never met anyone who isn't impressed by her. Again, a serious credit to anyone she associates with.

If she put her hair up in pigtails, would you creep yourself out?

Traci Lords is 42. There you go: proven performance. Do I recommend her career? No, not in the least. About the policeman, it is sad that no one else was in this cop's life. But sex is not death. Even you, wD, could get over it.

Every woman is somebody's daughter. And yes, if Emma isn't appealing to you today, you're not even gay, you're dead. Just why, do you think, she has multiple modeling contracts and people clamor for her attention?

-----

No America is not a Puritan society - it is merely highly conflicted. We glorify ritual combat in football and shriek at the idea of seeing Janet Jackson's breast - while we run the TiVo back to see it. We wail about our youth and turn to see what Britney or Paris is doing.

And some even insist on establishing a lifelong commitment in marriage prior to having sex, which is possibly the finest way to guarantee every kind of misbehavior from cheating to suicide and murder because of frustration.

Gee. Marriage. If the cop had just married her, there'd be no problem!

Now notice the inclination - if this girl is 16, she's automatically a virgin and is now a victim. She had no idea whatsoever what she was doing. She was completely helpless and is now ruined for life.

Muslims would kill her. She has dishonored her family!

If you stigmatize the girl, you approach that idea.

-----

Now, there's been lots of noise about the age of consent and the law. Randall Munroe suggested the guideline "x/2+7" as a handy way to determine if you've stepped out of line.

Do you have a solution, not involving a burkha?

(Apologies to Crid in absentia for use of the "royal we" above.)

Not attractive at all.

Completely repulsive. Yuck. Rosanne Barr? Much better.

OK, enough.

I'd bet I could pick out the 19 year old from the 16 year old, though I wouldn't be attracted to either.

whistleDick, I just don't believe that. Whether you choose not to act on it or not, I bet you find them attractive.

Has anyone here had a sixteen year old daughter?

Yes I have. Oh...not what you meant. Sorry. If it makes you feel better I was only 26. She's married with two kids now and we're still close friends.

As Amy has repeatedly pointed out, his sexual relationship with them was not illegal. And it's certainly not pedophilia. You don't like it, tough.

And Kristen, what difference does it make whether he's a cop? If he was an accounts clerk would it somehow not be so bad? Equality before the law seems to be getting ditched here.

That's why we frown on high school teachers fucking 17 year olds in their history class

That's because it's an imbalanced power relationship Kristen, nothing to do with their age. Same with college professors screwing their (early 20s) students. This case was a bit creepy, but there was no direct authority link there.

Nice photo Radwaste, btw. Thanks :)

Amy,

You'd be absolutely right if you said it the other way around.

If it's illegal for him to have pictures of her, it's absurd that it's legal for him to have sex with her.

Rad,

I never said the Harry Potter actress was repulsive. She's a lovely girl.

Just as you are able to recognize that your daughter is beautiful without being sexually attracted to her yourself.

"How old do they have to be to be interesting, now?"

For me? Anything over thirty will do. No, I'm not gay as you've suggested and I'm certainly not dead. I just prefer sex with women that don't have to take the bubble gum out of their mouths first.

It shocks and disturbs me that I seem to be alone on this topic amongst the men on here.

Ltw,

You slept with a sixteen year old when you were twenty-six? Sorry man, I don't care what state you were living in at the time, you ought to have a sign in your yard.

OK whistleDich ready to play?

http://www.ugo.com/image/56920/summer-glau-women-of-fall-tv

Here is the image of an actress named SUmmer Glau

She is 30 yrs old

1. Is that old enough for you to find attractive?
2. DO you find her attractive?

LTW, I do think there was an imbalance in the power of the relationship because I feel his relationship with her as a father's friend or co-worker was more parental. Its pretty typical for young girls to have crushes on older men. I had crushes on some of my father's friends when I was a kid. Would it have been legal for them to screw me at the age of consent? Yes. Would it have been wrong? I think so.
Amy, the legally it doesn't make sense that he could screw her but not have pictures, but then again, the child porn laws were strengthened to cast a wider net. Someone who isn't technically a pedophile got caught. Its scary just in the fact that there's no leeway for many prosecutors when faced with someone who isn't a pedophile. In that respect, yes, its wrong, but I still think this guy is a sick predator.

He's more than a sick predator. In my book, he's clearly a pedophile. I don't care what the law says one way or the other.

test

OK whistleDick, Amys spam filter swallowed my post, but its back up there time stamp 650 am. Please respond and we'll continue

Okay, lujip, I'll play.

1. Yes, thirty years old is age appropriate for me.

2. Meh, I find her attractive, but nothing is moving around in my pants.

If I had a conversation with her and found her interesting, she would become more attractive to me. There is too little information in the photo you're presenting. But, yes. Based on what I know, I'd do her -- what the hell.

Yes, she's very pretty. But in the same way that my daughters are very pretty. I couldn't imagine being sexually attracted to her.

Now we get to the crux of the biscuit.

Once you have daughters, your perspective changes. No, I don't have any, but I know people who do. And they look at young women with a completely different eye than those of us without.

Taylor Swift is a kid. It's obvious from looking at her, reading about her actions, and hearing her music. I worry about some of the commenters here, I really do.

A kid? She's 21 years old. How old does a girl have to be before she's fair game? Sure, all her songs are girly love songs. That's her schtick.

I probably should not be broadcasting these personal details on this board as there are plenty of ways people can find out my real name, but my first sexual intercourse was when I was 17 and the man was 34. I was pretty savvy as a teenager, was interested in sex, didn't want to get hit by a bus tomorrow and die a virgin and I had spent plenty of hours in the library sitting in the aise and reading books about human reproduction that I did not want to be seen checking out. I had no interest in fumbling around in a car with another teenager who also had no idea what he was doing. One inexperienced party was enough. I met this very good looking man at a party one night and started spending some time with him. He was divorced and had had a vasectomy. This peeked my interest becuase I lived in a small town in an underpopulated state and there was no way that a 17 year old was going to get access to a reliable form of birth control without half the town knowing about it.
I got what I wanted from him, which was a low risk sexual experience and a first time that was probably less painful and stressful than most. Should this guy have gone to jail? Hell no, and back in the 70's no one in their right mind would have tried to put him there.

www.wallpaperhub.net/pictures/
Summer-Glau/Summer-Glau-9.JPG

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Riverinfomovie.jpg

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www.whedon.info/Summer-Glau-First-
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summerglau.jpg

OK whistle Dick here are 5 more pictures of Summer.

You'll have to copy and paste I didt want to get caught by AMys spam filter

Including the one you saw hat brings us up to six, 2 depit her in her 30's, 4 depict her in her late 20's and 2 depict her as a teenager.

which two photos do you NOT find attractive?

"If it makes you feel better I was only 26. "

Sorry, you're a loser who can't attract actual women. Much like my ex husband. Any grown man who goes after someone in their mid teens has serious problems. I don't care how big her boobs are.

WOuld it be okay for a 34 year old gay man to do Beiber?

Any grown man who goes after someone in their mid teens has serious problems. I don't care how big her boobs are.

Two can play that game. Any man who goes after a woman over 40 has serious mommy issues. I don't care how much money she has.

What part of human sexuality and biological imperative evades you? Do you honestly think if you didn't have nice tits and the ability to produce healthy children your current husband would have even noticed you?

I'm 41. If I ever decided I want children, my chances of doing so are greatly improved by getting a woman under 35. Under 30 is even better.

Or should I get left out of the family game because I spent 20 years living in a fog of mental illness?

momof4,

Well said.

Brian,

You're 41 and advocating banging teenagers? What part of the definition of "pedophile" evades you? By the way, you're arriving to the "family game" a bit late there, Turbo.

So would it be unnatural for you, at 41 and among the "any man" group, to go after a woman over 40?

I still absolutely cannot believe that so many of my fellow men are arguing against me on this. It really is fucking bizarre.

Sorry momof4 but this whole outrage over older men lusting after younger women thing seems to mimic almost exactly the women against porn argument. i.e. men shouldn't find these women attractive because it is an insult to women over the aqe of 30,or 40, or in a committed relationship, yadda yadda, or pick your victimized group here.
Evolutionary psychology has pretty strong evidence that men who have enough testosterone in their system to be sexually interested will find almost ALL women who appear old enough to reproduce to be sexually attractive. There is nothing sick about it.
Acting on those fantasies or desires with someone who does not have the mental or emotional maturity to engage in a mature sexual relationship, and putting pressure on them to do so, is where the problems begin.

You did inadvertently bring up an interesting point though.
It is this. If homosexual attraction is not based on evolutionary psychology, i.e. the desire to reproduce with the almost all fit and fertile individuals, then when does homosexual desire become a perversion? Is it when the object of your desire is clearly not sexually mature or when there is too great an age difference? Especially considering that an appropriate age relationship seems to be a moving target going up and down (but mostly up) in recent history? Or is the "ick" factor just a societal construct?
There was a 13 year age difference between my parents when they were married. He was 42 and she was 29. My grandparents had even more disparity. She was 34 and he was 19. My great grandfather lost he first wife when they were both 40. His second wife, with whom he proceeded to have 8 more children was 18 when he married her. Were they all perverts?

Stop brow beating these poor men for being perverts. Their only perversion is in your sick little mind.

Okay Lujip,

I've looked at your pictures. The last one is the one I liked. All the photos are very pretty, but very girlish.

The thing that you're missing is that if I saw such a woman in a club or something, yes, I might approach her. But, as soon as she opened her mouth, I'd have a better idea of her age and maturity level. It's not enough to say that, "she looked eighteen" or whatever age is "legal".

I'm sure you could give me all manner of examples of young women who look older than they are. This woman does not fit that bill.

To put it on the table, I was sexually attracted to the last photo. But again, that might change when she opens her yap.

whistleDick its been over 2 hours, how you doing with those pictures?

Also pedophilla is a sexual attraction to PRE-pubecents - as in so young as to disply to charechteristics of sexual matuity

Okay, I initially missed the third photo. That one is pretty sexy, too. Again, it's not just about how she looks. It's also about how she comes across when I talk to her.

Hey Lujip,

I'm right here, buddy. Over two hours doesn't mean a whole lot. I live in Asia. You have to give me a little leeway for being on the other side of the planet.

Seems I just missed your post, Sorry about that

any way, the only photo that acctually was taken when she was 19 was the very first one at 650am this morning, to which you replied that you did find her attractive and would "do her"

So it seem your claims of being able to spot 19yr olds from photos and never ever find them attractive as they are too young and that would be pedophillia is bullshit just as I expected.

Thanks for playing.

Incedentally there is noting wrong with you for finding a sexualy mature woman of legal age attractive, its biology.

whistleDick:

You're 41 and advocating banging teenagers? What part of the definition of "pedophile" evades you? By the way, you're arriving to the "family game" a bit late there, Turbo.

Pedophile: sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children, i.e. children with no identifying characteristics of sexual maturity.

Normal: sexually attracted to POST-pubescent adolescents and adults with obvious identifying characteristics of sexual maturity.

And who the fuck are you to determine that I'm arriving at anything late? Tony Randall started a family at 77. With a woman 50 years his junior.

So would it be unnatural for you, at 41 and among the "any man" group, to go after a woman over 40?

Depends on what you're after. I have friends who are after (one is dating, the other is marrying) women who are precisely in that group. They've already had children in prior marriages, or aren't interested in them. There's also the over 40 friend who came out of a childless marriage and is living with a 34 year old with three children from a prior marriage.

I still absolutely cannot believe that so many of my fellow men are arguing against me on this. It really is fucking bizarre.

Not really. Like I said, once you have children, it appears your definition of "attractive" changes. Doubly so for men who have daughters.

I live in Asia.

This might be a contributing factor to your point of view. Asian women seem to age better than their caucasian counterparts. They also seem to (visually) mature later. At least to my American eyes, anyhow. A friend of mine is married to a Japanese woman. She's 44, but you'd never guess it by looking at her.

"I still absolutely cannot believe that so many of my fellow men are arguing against me on this. It really is fucking bizarre."

At some point, and in view of Amy's extensive research and repeated posting about human sexuality, you should say to yourself, "Maybe it's me!"

And, in case you haven't extracted this from my posts so far - I'm not telling you you should run after idiots with huge breasteses. I'm just agreeing with both Amy and the run-of-the-mill guys around the flatscreen TV at the bar that there is a reason, simple and complex at the same time, cheerleaders are hot, and beautiful girls are attractive to men aged 5 to 105!

BTW, Luj gets serious points for picking Summer, who hasn't changed all that much with age, and who has ample background in peer review to show her wit and athleticism. You can find some of it in the Director's Cut of Serenity. The sequence of solo "interviews" Summer does as River, talking to the school psychologist, are wonderfully chilling, and you will be very glad they're fiction.

Lujip,

I never said I could spot them from photos. You're right that girls can physically look a bit older than they are. I maintain that if I talked to her, I'd be able to figure out quite quickly that they she wasn't an age appropriate match.

Brian,

"And who the fuck are you to determine that I'm arriving at anything late? Tony Randall started a family at 77. With a woman 50 years his junior."

You're right. Sorry about that. My bad.

About me living in Asia, that's not the issue. I'm American and have only been living here for the last five months or so.

As for the definition of pedophilia, a quick check on dictionary.com (I don't know how scholarly that source is, but shit -- it's a dictionary) gives the definition simply as:

an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

I think a sixteen year old girl would qualify as a young child. That's just me.

And to Rad, who said, "you should say to yourself, "Maybe it's me!"", maybe you're right. That's what shocks me to my very core about every male response on here to this subject. God damn, am I the only man around that thinks banging a sixteen year old is among the sickest fucking things a man could do?

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?

check out you own post @ Posted by: whistleDick at March 4, 2011 1:42 PM

Now if you cant tell an 11 year old diference in photos, hen how can you tel a less than 3 yr old diference?

Here is the entirety of my post from March 4, 2011 1:42 PM for those that don't want to wade up thread:

"On second thought, I'd bet I could pick out the 19 year old from the 16 year old, though I wouldn't be attracted to either. That's a pretty significant age difference given that period of development for a young woman"

I'd still bet that I could tell the difference as soon as I spoke with her. Photos are photos. Which photo that I said was sexy was of a sixteen year old?

Somehow, I've never been in the situation where I was duped by a sixteen year old into fucking her. Again:

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?

wD -

You keep going back to talking to her. Well, shit. If you can't figure out that she's not relationship material after finding out there's a complete generation gap with no common social context, then you're not trying.

But if you're just trying to score some strange, all you really need to do is see her driver's license.

Like I said, having daughters definitely changes a man. If you have a teen or preteen daughter, you're hard-wired not to see that as attractive, or you'd be boning her friends. You see them as "children" too. Which means that when she's in college, you'll see 25 year old women as "children" and asking your 60 year old friends "How can you find that 26 year old CHILD attractive? You must be sick."

Here's the thing: Do I like looking at young women in the prime of their life? Hells yeah. Would I bone one? Maybe. Would I date one? Probably not. Would I look at one as potential LTR material? Not on your life.

Being honest, any woman has the opportunity to turn me off by opening her mouth. Stupid repulses me. Crass repulses me. But you show me a 28 year old who has her shit together and you've got my attention.

I've yet to meet the 19 year old who meets that criteria.

So they're eye candy. And there's nothing wrong with it.

Somehow, I've never been in the situation where I was duped by a sixteen year old into fucking her.

No man is going to be "duped" into it. A horny teenager can get away with saying "I didn't know she was 15. Her license said she was 17!"

Any 34 year old that hooks up with someone that young is looking for it and willing to take advantage of whatever throws itself his way.

Let it be until he crosses the REAL line, which he likely will because I've seen several 13-going-on-19 girls in my time. You can tell by how they talk and act, but good luck guessing it from 10 yards away.

Sorry, you're a loser who can't attract actual women.

Gee, momof4, you might want to tell that to the woman 6 years my senior that I lived with for 8 years after that. You know nothing about the circumstances or the reasons it happened. And the 16 year old in question (or she might have been 17 at the time, can't remember) is still one of my best friends more than a decade later. And I've met her parents, attended her wedding, take her kids out for McDonalds. If her (quite frankly, scary) biker father is cool with it, maybe I'm not the predator you think.

Brian,

Now you're sounding a lot more reasonable then you were before. Yes, I have two young adult daughters and maybe that's responsible for my "hang up".

Ltw,

I'm with momof4, whatever the circumstances, you really ought to have a sign in your yard. Your friend's biker father isn't nearly scary enough apparently. Had you been lurking around my daughter, you'd have a couple of shattered knee caps.

I'm not sounding any different than I was before. I think I've just managed to get you to acknowledge your frame of reference.

"Had you been lurking around my daughter, you'd have a couple of shattered knee caps."

Well, sex is more important than violence, too. Somebody should be crippled for life rather than approach a girl indecently.

Relax. I know it's a figure of speech.

And of course, the girl has nothing whatsoever to do with this. Innocent, stupid, virginal, a social invalid, she is incapable of saying "No" or asking advice from family.

Perhaps you should teach your daughter to say, "No."

I don't remember lurking, ever, whistleDick. And she'll have a good laugh over your attitude. So once I have a fling with someone younger than me - I guess 20 years of committed relationships with women my age or older count for nothing. I see I'm a predator now, I'll go put up my sign. Can you voluntarily sign up for a sex offenders register?

Perhaps you should teach your daughter to say, "No."

Nicely put, Radwaste.

Btw Isabel, thank you for your story (and bravery) describing that there might be reasons for a young woman to choose an older partner. It shows it isn't all about older men preying on young girls.

Skimming down the comments, I see a number of "it was his own fault for poor judgement" type ones, as well as several "if it was my daughter" comments.

The same could have been said of homosexuals who, in the past, were persecuted by the sodomy law. You could say, "it was their own fault, they knew the law".

Or, you could say that the law was an ass and needed to be removed from the statute books.

The man did nothing wrong. He had consensual sex with younger women, which pretty much every guy would like to do. Age of consent is a blunt instrument. These women were biologically adult, and had been for quite a while, with fully functional sexual physical and psychological systems. They were not children.

This cannot be emphasised enough. Childhood is a biological state. Evolution developed a great big set of distinguishing secondary sexual characteristics so that we can tell the difference; breasts, hips, pubic hair, facial shape, general body shape, and so on.

The man did nothing wrong. To say it was his own fault for doing something normal which violates an absurd law is ludicrous. Some sexually mature adults had sex. There is nothing wrong with this. End of story.

Those who are saying "if it was my daughter" need to get their heads around the fact that your kids grow up and become independent human beings, and they do it rapidly. Your teenage offspring are sexual beings. Get over it.