Life will continue to go on without Bin Laden. The Taliban will continue fighting and tying our troops down in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda will continue to plot terrorist attacks around the world, we'll continue to muck around in Libya and spending more billions of dollars throwing missiles at Gadaffi, OPEC will continue to screw every one by raising the price of oil and cutting back on production, the price of gas will climb to $6.00/gallon by Memorial Day, and the US economy will continue to decline over the next several months.

I just opened the champagne.

@RadleyBalko tweeted:

‎

"It's obviously great that the bastard is dead. But celebrations, spontaneous street parties feel like the wrong reaction."

Quite honestly, I'd love it if this meant we could stop sticking our nose in the world's business, but this changes nothing.

Woo freaking hoo. So what. Could we butt out of the world's problems now?

I thought not.

"It's obviously great that the bastard is dead. But celebrations, spontaneous street parties feel like the wrong reaction."

Not to me.

I remember spending a very unpleasant afternoon making international 'phone calls, trying to find out if friends of mine who worked in Lower Manhattan were still alive. (As it happened, they were, but still.)

Not to put too fine a point on it: the bastard owes me a party.

If there is a hell, then demons have shoved a broomstick up his ass and are using his beard to muck out Satan's personal pigsty, for all eternity.

Suicide bombers are a dime a dozen, but Bin Laden was one of a kind. Without him, attacks on the scale of 9/11 would not have happened, in the US or any other Western country, and I predict that they won't happen again unless someone of equal stature & vision arises to take his place. For the near future, I suspect the threats we face will come from B-team terrorists like the pantybomber getting lucky.

It makes no difference operationally, but very important symbolically. Reading around a bit, these are the points that stand out to me.

First and foremost, something that *won't* happen - there won't be the farce of trying to put him on trial, people being kidnapped and threatened with death unless he is released, etc. Thank goodness.

They sent in ground troops to find him, rather than taking him out with a missile. Reportedly they weren't exactly sure who was in the house. The good news from that is they got to bring the body out and can prove he's dead. No Elvis-type sightings here. At least it shows that sometimes Obama has some balls.

He was in a nice house outside Islamabad, not holed up in a cave somewhere. I doubt that will endear him to his supporters. I predict some very searching questions behind the scenes for Pakistan as well.

Last prediction for the future - the Navy SEAL who took him out will never have to buy a beer again for the rest of his life :)

Also, the story is that their initial lead came from an unnamed "human asset". Someone finally shopped the bastard.

The future?

Ayman al-Zawahri, and who knows how many more "spritual leaders", are still alive with disciples throughout the world. I'm sure they'll use Bin Laden's death to their advantage. I'm also concerned that a sleeper cell has standing orders to carry out some sort of attack on news of Bin Laden's death. So Bin Laden is dead, but the war continues.

Having said all that, right now I'm watching people gather at the WH and Times Square at 2 AM on a Monday morning. I also just watched a video of US military cadets celebrating, and saw pics of NYC Fire Department showing up in Times Square to celebrate and it makes me feel great!

I had trouble with the concept of finding joy in the death of another human. For about a nanosecond.

I note the government made a point of saying his body would be treated respectfully in accordance with Muslim law. Politially and humanistically/societally/spiritually, perhaps correct; yet my spontaneous reaction was "Sew the f'er into a pigskin blanket and bury him under a pigsty." F him for what he did. I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, but I find myself hoping the latter exists...

New Yorkers in particular have a right to celebrate.

I'm with Amy. I've never understood the odd stereotype that New Yorkers are somehow cold or rude. It's a big city and often in a hurry, but the individuals who make up those crowds have always been friendly and funny and down-to-earth when you get to talk to them. The "Ground Zero" tours were always distasteful to me in the same way the post-Katrina "Lower 9th Ward" tours were.

If New Yorkers want to spend one night having catharsis, well: better late than never.

And I can't wait to see what headline the NY Post comes up with for tomorrow's edition. You KNOW it's going to be a keeper.

If I may be cynical, it means that the US government will have to invent replacement threats. It is essential to keep the populace scared, after all, how else can you justify the Patriot Act, warrentless wiretapping, TSA, and all the other police powers that our leaders have become accustomed to.

Robert Spencer at Human Events on the overstating of Bin Laden's importance:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43275

But in reality, while the death of bin Laden is fine news, and is certainly a psychological blow to the jihadis and a confidence-booster for Americans, it really won't change anything.

The role of al-Qaeda in the global jihad, and the role of Osama bin Laden in al-Qaeda, have both been wildly overstated. Al-Qaeda is not the only Islamic jihad group or Islamic supremacist group operating today, and Osama bin Laden was not some charismatic leader whose movement will collapse without him. The exaggeration of his role, in fact, was a result of the general unwillingness to face the reality that the global jihad is a movement driven by an ideology, not an outsized personality, and that that ideology is rooted in Islam.

Barack Obama epitomized that unwillingness in his address announcing the death of bin Laden. “The US is not – and never will be – at war with Islam,” Obama declared. “Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader. He was a mass murderer of Muslims.” Osama bin Laden himself would have been surprised to be characterized (and by a leader who is probably not a Muslim himself) as “not a Muslim leader.” After all, in his 2002 letter to the American people explaining his motives and goals, he wrote: “The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.”

Could we butt out of the world's problems now?

I thought not.

Word.

Considering everything that 9/11 cost us, both short- and long-term (include in the latter TSA and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan), I'd have to say bin Laden sold his life for full value and then some.

I'm emailing this from a holding cell.

I heard the news tonight, went over to the nearby nursing school and kissed about a dozen nurses.

Please help.

>>It's obviously great that the bastard is dead. But celebrations, spontaneous street parties feel like the wrong reaction

Not to me whatsoever. I just got back from a business trip in DC and I might have gone to the White House "street party" if I was still there. Why? Because the individual most responsible for the deadliest attack on American soil (innocent civilians at that) -- and likely thousands more deaths worldwide along with countless suffering -- just had justice served up on a red, white and blue platter. I see that as a cause for joy. I suspect you'd have to go back to the death of Hitler to find more people happy about the death of a single person. I would have had a 'street party' for that one too.

A special thanks to Delta Force, if it was them, for taking out Bin Laden. Not one of those guys will likely ever be mentioned or credited in the media or history.

Reportedly, TW, it was what used to be called Seal Team Six, although apparently it has some other complicated name in the special forces structure now. Nothing is really confirmed yet of course.

It's true that the names of those involved won't be published for a long time if ever - but as much as anything that would be to protect them and their families from retaliation.

Cue the doubters. I'm one of them now because the story is incomplete.

It was at the President's "direction", there's no body now because it's already been disposed, and the credited story on CNN is from an "official" who isn't named. Who is at odds with another "official" as to how the body was or would be handled. Apparently nobody told one of them he'd be dumped at sea.

What's the nearest body of water? Just what ceremony could you force a sailor to participate in with this guy? :push: Splash.

Shot in the head? In a firefight? The guy on dialysis? In a conspicuous location?

Crid said years ago the guy was dead. The CNN headline is a lot easier to manufacture than a stained dress, and now people campaigning for the President will claim that he got bin Laden.

I can only hope the cries to get out of Afghanistan, etc., are as loud.

Well, Rad, immediate burial *is* in keeping with Muslim custom. This way no one can claim insensitivity, and presumably they planned ahead enough to have a Muslim chaplain on hand (assuming there is one that hasn't shot a bunch of people yet). And as for shot in the head - I'm sure no one wanted a media circus for the trial and the troops were encouraged not to bring him back with a pulse. I'm guessing the orders were "burst into room, shoot every male, count bodies afterward".

Maybe it's manufactured, but that would be incredibly risky. What if Crid was wrong and he popped up again? He may or may not have still been on dialysis. I'm sure he could have found a supporter to donate a kidney by now.

Guy kills over 3,000 and he's a villain. Another man kills over 40,000, and he's not.

Anyone wanna guess who the two are?

Sonja Newcombe, let me try, let me try! Are we talking kittens?

Strategically, I don't see much of a difference with OBL dead or alive. The organization he led might be demoralized in the short term, but I doubt it will collapse in his absence. But it does give us some momentum; I wonder what we'll do to exploit it?

As far as the celebrations go, I guess I can understand them, but they strike me as unseemly. This isn't a Superbowl win we're celebrating, and the enemy still has the capability to strike back.

I think Ian Welsh about sums it up:

http://www.ianwelsh.net/osamas-death-changes-almost-nothing/

I was there. I watched the 2nd tower fall and ran like hell when it started raining cinderblock on peoples heads. I had to take the PATH train through the gaping hole that is now where the WTC used to be. I don't think the celebration is an over reaction. I think it's long overdue.

America has had very little to celebrate lately. Gas prices are rising. The economy is getting worse. Unemployment is at an all time high. Polititians are stupider than ever. This one thing gives us a little bit of joy and a feeling of justice and after ten years of waiting, I'll be damned if I am gonna tell anyone that they are not entitled to it.

Now, I am also not that naive. I know that while Bin Ladens death is a good thing, it's not going to stop terrorism dead in it's tracks. There will be someone willing and able to step up and fill the role of Islamic terrorist leader and the terror will not end that easily. But, it is one point for the good guys in this case.

I feel like it's entirely appropriate to celebrate. Maybe not classy, but fuck that. I'm in a party mood.

Thank you Amy for pointing out the difference. Morality is not determined by numbers.

Never mind Sonja that lots of those deaths were the result of Al Qaeda effectively declaring war on the the US in Iraq (and several thousand of them were their own fighters, hardly non-combantants) in the hope taking over. Arguably, the guy most responsible for the ongoing violence in Iraq just got his reward.

While I'm really overjoyed about bin Laden's demise, I still think that the majority of people aren't taking Islamic terrorism seriously. There are more terrorists out there. Most likely, there will be repercussions of some kind. Because for the jihadis, "western civilization", is an obscenity. We have to somehow make sure that the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

As for the Patriot Act, that needs to be repealed. NOW. And those goddamned Wall Street oil "speculators"? They need to be ousted. NOW. And I still think congress needs a genetic cleansing in the worst way!

>>It's obviously great that the bastard is dead. But celebrations, spontaneous street parties feel like the wrong reaction.

It took months to find my friend's body. He was a police Sergeant in Brooklyn and went straight to the Towers when he heard they were under attack.

My other friend, FDNY, left a fiancee in the middle of planning their wedding and two parents who are devastated.

Another friend lost his brother-in-law, also FDNY, and that firefighter left behind a wife and three children.

The list could go on. I was married to an officer with the NYPD on 9/11 so the stories weren't just something I read in the newspaper. I knew many who got out, many who by some form of fate weren't at work that day, and many who lost loved ones. So no, Osama's death probably doesn't change anything from an operational standpoint and I don't usually condone cheering the loss of a human life, but that bastard killed my friend, and no party will every bring him back, but that bastard is not sitting in hiding somewhere laughing at the fact that we can't find him so cheers to the American military and party on.

I am glad he is dead.

I think the fallout will be less about Bin Laden dying and more about Pakistan sheltering him. In a fortress-like house a couple hundred yards from a Pakistani military facility.

I could be wrong.

I agree with Robert Spencer and have been saying what he said for years. Be aware that there is a strong possibility that this will actually make things worse. If bin Laden really was alive (and we didn't actually kill someone else and claimed it was bin Laden), he wasn't doing very much operationally. Have we just unleashed the dogs of war?

Moreover, this raises some very uncomfortable questions; namely why was Pakistan protecting bin Laden and why did they turn on him now?

I'm not sure if what I feel can even be called relief. Bin Laden hasn't been operational or a threat for years. He's done the damage he could then hid. He was a bastard. He's dead now.

Since we still have do live with the violations to our liberty daily, I'm not much of one for celebrating. It seems more bread and circuses to me. I would celebrate real accomplishments.

It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

There are unanswered questions about our Pakistani allies - obviously billions aren't enough to buy their loyalty. It seems that the waterboard the bastards crowd (proud to be a member) were proven correct. The keep them locked up forever crowd (yep) are vindicated, again. Until the opium poppies are eradicated, or our drug laws liberalized, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are still going to be well financed. (Can't we genetically mutate something that will kill the poppies?)

The more valid comparison is to the killing of Japanese Admiral Yamamoto during WWII. The death of the architect of Pearl Harbor was welcome, but there was a lot more war left until the surrender.

I guess I would fall into one of those doubter categories.

"Buried at sea" seems too connived for me. No body? I'm from Missouri, show-me.

Not to mention that we shot a guy on dialysis, a guy that was in effect already dying.

And on top of that, this pretty well sums up the re-election for Obama.

His death is good news. Now I think we should go all out "brian" on radical islam. I will shed no tears.

Somebody above sure has a hard on for war.

Should we waterboard every suspected bastard till they prove they aren't? Should we be surprised when this radicalizes more than a few? Lock them up too I guess. Kill them all I suppose.

I see the world differently than you.

Are you talkin to me - Abersouth?

Do you negotiate with terrorists in your world? If so, how is that working out for ya?

Radical islam has a hard on for war - or haven't you noticed?

No Dave. I was talking about markd.

I don't know what "negotiate with terrorists" means to you so I don't know how to answer.

I agree radical Islam has a hard on for war. Would you agree that the reactions of the US government to the 9/11 bombing (meaning starting two ground wars of occupation) has made more terrorists than it has eradicated. I think it stirred up a self perpetuating hornets nest.

Again. Osama was a bastard. He's dead. I cry no tears for him. Our governments response has had many costs though. Do you see any?

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/02/bin_laden/index.html

http://the-crows-eye.blogspot.com/2011/05/nope.html

Okay, a few things. First, in response to something I posted on an earlier thread, I freely give major props to the Obama Administration on this one. They did what needed to be done; they did so decisively, and they gave the field commanders and troops the authority to get the job done and prevent it from turning into another Desert One fiasco. No, it really won't make much difference to alQ operationally at this point, but obviously the symbolism is huge.

However, they made a big mistake shipping the body out to be buried at sea. They should have put it on display in Islambad so that everyone could see that he's really dead. As it is, they left the door open for all kinds of conspiracy theories. Presumably they took video, which will appear on Youtube shortly, but video can be faked. By not offering up the no-kidding proof of death, they left room for doubt. That's going to come back to haunt them.

And there's a political backstory. Why was the operation approved at this time? Because Obama wants Leon Panetta in as SecDef, and the success of this operation just eliminated any potential Republican opposition to his nomination in the Senate. And that's bad, because Panetta is clearly being sent to the DoD to be the hatchet man. His job is to gut the military and come up with the $500B a year that is needed to prop up Obamacare. The irony is, by the time Panetta is done, he will have assured that his successor will not have the capability available to execute an operation like the one we have just seen. And politically, there appears to be no way to stop it.

Abersouth - You and I do live in different worlds. I believe you kill terrorists or lock them up forever, preferably kill. As Yoda would say, there is no negotiate.

I would not agree that the US government started anything as you stated. I believe in violence in self-defense - to the extreme necessary. See the paragraph above for my definition of the extreme necessary.

We can disagree on the methods used by our government to kill terrorists and often I do. This is not a war in traditional sense. There is no instruction book.

What's next? hey, al-Zawahri you just got a promotion to #1.

The only problem: we've been busy killing off the overly-brave, the foolish, the incompetent and the stupid members of al Queda. There might be a competent leader coming up thru the ranks and may yet make our lives a living hell.

@Abersouth -

So long as we can make bullets faster than they can make babies, I'm not worried about creating new terrorists by killing their leaders.

wow, some of these comments are deflating. Comparing the war in iraq with 9/11? What moron could rationalize that? The man is dead, we should be trying and executing those at gitmo to. There is no "justice" for a puke that would send airplanes into office buildings in the name of religion, there is only a nasty death. I hope the prick bled to death

I'm mixed on the waterboarding and torture. Yes, it seems to do wonders on "24" but does it really get us worthwhile info in the real world? I'd love it if we could have taken him alive and locked him away as America's trophy, but I do think we would then have had a divide in the country. Those who would have wanted to torment him and those who would have fought for his civil liberties. I'm not thrilled at the burial at sea within the Muslin time frame either, but as Abersouth pointed out, our way of doing things has created more terrorists, not eradicated them so while there is a fear of retaliation for his death, we are better than those who drag the body through the town square and set it on fire as a show.

Bottom line is, he's dead. He can't laugh at us as he is hidden away. I honestly don't believe it gets us anywhere except symbolically. My friends are still dead and too many children are still without parents.

The Yoda I know said there is no try, do or do not. I don't live my life based on a Nike slogan, and i would rather not have our dear leaders govern from such an ideology as well.

Concerning the premise of killing terrorists. Bear with me because I'm not that good at expressing my thoughts. First, how do you tell who is and is not a terrorist. This seems fraught with complications. Exacerbated (in my mind) when you invade a country to sweep the few out (and the inevitable collateral damage) often to piss off many other locals at us. People who just wanted to live herding their goats or whatever losing their son or whomever in some fucked up raid and now you have people who were on the fence have a righteous hatred of America (ever seen Restrepo, it focuses on US soldiers experience, just think how those seriously
poor farmers experience the war) These wars are not
working. They are making everything worse. I realize an
Assertion is not proof in an argument. Undeniable by any honest person though is mission creep.
I guess if I had a take home message it would be, what is whipping these terrorists into existence? I think the GWOT is massive tragedy in the epic sense. I think these terrorists are only an existential threat to the US if you treat them as such. But I could certainly be wrong. I often am.

"Islam has not changed. It is a totalitarian system that commands the death or conversion of non-Muslims and the installation of The New Caliphate around the world (contrary to what the ignorant or those who'd rather believe otherwise think)."

Christianity was killing apostates, ran theocratic governments, launching holy wars, etc, back in the day. What broke the back of Christo-despotism? The Reformation and the Enlightenment. Hopefully Islam is undergoing the begining of its reformation.

And yes, I am placing current day radical Islam and Christianity circa 12th century in the same category.

Bush went on vacation.
Obama got bin Laden.

I suspect Bush jr. is sending condolences to the bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia as we speak. The Bush family has been close to the extended bin Laden family for decades.

gee, who would have guessed, butthead believes in michael moore, what an idiot comment botu

I think Balko's post is well worth a read.

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/02/he-won/#comments

Christianity was killing apostates, ran theocratic governments, launching holy wars, etc, back in the day. What broke the back of Christo-despotism? The Reformation and the Enlightenment. Hopefully Islam is undergoing the begining of its reformation.

And yes, I am placing current day radical Islam and Christianity circa 12th century in the same category.

The Age of Enlightenment was the 18th Century. Can we wait 600 years for Islam to come around?

ummm, for those who may not know any better, islam's age of enlightenment was ended with WWI, they have been backsliding since. Some og you people are amazingly simple minded

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42859914/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/?GT1=43001

And they can't even agree that a burial at sea was proper, even with reasons like thye didn't want bin Laden's grave to be a "rallying point for militants."

Guy's gone, good. Now let's move on. And if Obama's camp tries to use this in the campaign, I'll have only one question: "Was HE the one who pulled the trigger?" No? Oh, so he DIDN'T kill Osama did he? And I'm pretty sure HE didn't give the order. His handlers told him what was going to happen and how he was going to tell us. He's reading from a script. Has been right from the start.

Obama likes golf. Strikes me as boring. Maybe he talks biz while golfing.

The Bush Family has deep connections to the bin Laden Family, before and after 9/11. This is not controversial, it just is.

BTW, Google images "George Bush sheik kiss" for a laugh.

George Bush jr. worships the Saudi throne more than the US Constitution.

Bush jr. had eight years to get bin Laden, never did. That is the record.

Balko is always worth a read Abersouth. And, I really agree with his statement "Solemn and somber appreciation that an evil man is gone seemed like the more appropriate reaction." But then that is just his opinion, and mine, isn't it.

I cannot recall Radley telling us what should have been done after 9/11. I read most of his stuff. Perhaps you recall Abersouth.

Pray tell, what should have been done? We can all bullet point what has happened that we do not like. We can even work to change some of those things. I just cannot agree that not killing terrorists is an acceptable answer. I, for one, do not think we can wait 600 years for Islam to come around as Amy asked.

Just viewed this on hot air. Me likey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDyrkU0WAQ

I don't recall if he advised an alternative approach. WTF? If you are interested why don't you find out? Why should I be burdened with this. I shared a link to someone I thought had a very relevant take to the conversation going on here.

Now for my pray tell. Uh, well, no invasion. Use special forces to remove threats. Is that good enough?

How do you propose we jump start a Muslim enlightenment? Does it involve bombs?

yes abersouth, large bombs, biggest in the arsenal, muslim enlightenment starts when they quit breathing and breeding

You're funny Abersouth. Pray tell, how do you use special forces without invading a soverign country?

I'd jump start muslim enlightenment by killing terrorists. Oh, we have been. Then we should just continue by killing terrorists. I'd go all "brian" on them, and yes, I think brian would include bombs.

@Flynne "And if Obama's camp tries to use this in the campaign, I'll have only one question: "Was HE the one who pulled the trigger?"

Wow. If that's the question then Obama's got a second term in the bag.

I will celebrate when the wars are over. I wonder if I will live that long.

brian - I hope I am not offending you. Awhile back it just seemed appropriate to abreviate my opinion as to what to do to the terrorists. I think the locals understand.

I'm waiting to see the Pakistani Information Minister pop up on TV to explain why thousands of officers & soldiers stationed in Abbottabad had no idea Bin Laden was their next-door neighbor.

Dave, if nothing else, know that I think you are funny too.

I think there is a tangible difference between occupying a country and sending in special forces. Oh yeah, where was he found? Not in a country that we invaded. So we sent in special forces to a sovereign country and killed a terrorist that was hiding there. Should we declare war with Pakistan now because that's where we found him and where you find one you are sure to find more. It really is funny, in a not at all amusing way.

And Dave, I'm sure the locals understand, just not in the way you wish they would.

Abersouth, you said above "Now for my pray tell. Uh, well, no invasion. Use special forces to remove threats. Is that good enough?"

Then you restated above "So we sent in special forces to a sovereign country and killed a terrorist that was hiding there."

Dude, militarily, that is invasion into a soveriegn nation and probably an act of war.

Wow. If that's the question then Obama's got a second term in the bag.

Gog, no way in HELL will I ever vote for that lying bastard. I didn't vote for him the first time and won't any other time either. He's a LIAR.

Hard on for war my ass. I've a son-in-law who did two tours in Iraq, and a brother who did one in Afghanistan.

I'm sorry, but sometimes you just have to give reality a try after self-delusion fails. This is an ugly war not of our choosing. They can quit at any time. We tried ignoring them and that didn't work. Somewhere around ten percent of those released from Gitmo ended up fighting us again.

Osama won't be planning any more attacks. It's not victory, but it's a start.

Ok Dave. I'll play the fool and respond. Do you see a difference between our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan? I do. Do you think our involvement in Pakistan is going to be open ended like those other two places? My money is betting no. I probably should have been more precise with my wording. I do apologize. Invasion/occupation is indeed distinct from invasion/neutralize/exit.

Forgive my conflating the "War on Terror" and the Iraq war(I include it because our dear leaders with mission creep have conflated far worse and have power).

Mark, not knowing how to exit my self delusion to give reality a try, I'll just keep getting through life the best I know how. Hope that doesn't offend.

When did we give ignoring terrorists a try? I hope you aren't implying I adhere to such a worldview. I don't think that would be honest. These are wars of our choosing. There were many possible responses to the towers coming down. We chose one.

I have family that has served in Iraq too.

Does some recidivism by individuals mean we should lock up forever all? I don't like where that logic leads.

After reading your comment above, I apologize. I may have misinterpreted your love of torture and indefinite detention of suspects as a rally round the flag call to patriotism and war My bad. I disagree with torture and would rather live in a land of clear laws and habeus corpus for all accused (whether citizen or no) but that's just me.

Cheering the in streets is what those imbeciles do when they kill us. We should be better than that. I cringed to see news footage of the people celebrating around the white house and elsewhere.

I'm not sure I buy the story, either, but that doesn't affect my opinion on the televised reaction.

But then, I knew no one who was killed in the attacks, either, so I have no right to judge.

@Flynne "I didn't vote for him the first time and won't any other time either."

Yeah, me neither.

But the GOP can't claim Obama is some sort of Muslim terrorist Manchurian candidate any more, they certainly can't say he's soft on terror since he has not only continued but successfully implemented the Bush policy, and Trump's birther stupidity (albeit just continuing an existing bit of nonsense) was just made moot by this huge success.

I think Obama will point to this and to the Arab Spring as high points of his administration. The GOP Congress, having not created the jobs they touted, will be left with precious little on which to campaign.

In any case, the election's over a year off. Quotes from the GOP at this point should echo those of the Bush family -- congratulate President Obama on a job well done and celebrate the ignoble end of this terrorist.

". . . I spent a year of my life covering al-Qaida for The New York Times. It was the work in which I, and other investigative reporters, won the Pulitzer Prize. And I spent seven years of my life in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I’m an Arabic speaker. And when someone came over and told Jean and me the news, my stomach sank. I’m not in any way naïve about what al-Qaida is. It’s an organization that terrifies me. I know it intimately.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

. . . When I was in New York, as some of you were, on 9/11, I was in Times Square when the second plane hit. I walked into The New York Times, I stuffed notebooks in my pocket and walked down the West Side Highway and was at Ground Zero four hours later. I was there when Building 7 collapsed. And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other.

. . . And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

-Chris Hedges
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_20110502/?ln

well, lisa, first we humiliate them, then we kill them, is that better?

and quoting someone like chris hedges is just tooooo funny, could you have found anyone more liberal to quote. Chris Hedges obviously does not hold the views of the vast majority of this country. The arabs have no countries other than what the western world cut out for them. Were they humiliated when the ottomans ran their worlds? The arabs have no real sense of "country" as you and I do. Better find some other "experts" to quote

This thing between you and I got started because I thought you were saying I had a hard on for war. I discounted you at your 7:46am comment "Bin Laden hasn't been operational or a threat for years." You don't know that.

I (US Infantry Sergeant, Viet Nam 1967-1968) despise war, and most of all, wars run by politicians and not the military.

If you read my comments above, I've stayed pretty consistent. Kill the terrorists (radical islamists). The fuck we just killed was a terrorist.

We may agree, or disagree, about going to the three countries you noted but the subject is killing terrorists. Actually, I was for going to the first - but I would have nuked it. I wasn't for going to Iraq until radical islamists went there - but we may have indeed pushed them there. Like I said, I'm for killing them. As for Pakistan, since I believe they were supporting the fuck we killed last week, and they support terrorism and since they created the sub-human Taliban, I'd nukem. It'll save American lives.

But then that's just me. You see, I am being soft when I say I'd go "brian" on them.

I think Obama will point to this and to the Arab Spring as high points of his administration.

So let him, Gog. I still don't think it'll be good enough for all of us who are now going into our 3rd year of unemployment (even though I currently have a job, it's a temp job, so it doesn't really count.), and the healthcare system is still beyond repair. Gas prices are still escalating, and there's no end in sight. If Obaba wants to point to just these 2 high points, it won't work. There's not enough weight there to convince most people. If their eyes are open, anyway.

...they certainly can't say he's soft on terror since he has not only continued but successfully implemented the Bush policy,

Well sure they can, he's still working from a script! Anyone who doesn't see that is blind. His handlers are telling him what to do, and he's doing it.

Quotes from the GOP at this point should echo those of the Bush family -- congratulate President Obama on a job well done and celebrate the ignoble end of this terrorist.

Oh I agree. And we still need to see some kind of empathy from them as far as the middle class is concerned. Because I get the feelling that they don't understand that once the middle class is gone, so goes their free ride. Because the money to support the poor is going to have to come from somewhere and it won't be us anymore.

the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral.

I would not like to see this happen to my country in my lifetime. That it's this [ ] close to happening is more than frightening to me.

Dear Lisa Simeone,

Do you agree with the following:
Disarm the Palistinians and there will be peace with Israel. Disarm the Israeli and there will be no Israel.

If you do, peace be with you. You are just trying to get attention.

If you do not, go fuck yourself bitch.

Dave B, thank you for your service, this country owes your generation a huge debt of gratitude for your service in a very difficult ennvironment, both at home and in country

Thanks ronc.

I learned to find out the "Rules of Engagement." If they don't benefit the American, with prejudice, we should not be involved. I know the American boys have better things to do, and, I guess our girls do to. I am now so bitter, because I believe the American citizens just want peace, that the bottom line is mess with us you get nuked.

"I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight."

Lisa, you're putting us on by quoting this clown, right? That's the exact same line that leftists in America have been using since about 1910. Funny thing is, they never had a problem with Russian nationalism or Chinese nationalism, back in the day. Only American nationalism bothers them. Gee, I wonder why? Hedges is an intellectual prick who wears his sense of inherent moral superiority on his sleeve.

In case anyone is interested in a video of Bin Laden's final moments, Taiwanese animators have imagineered a video you might like:

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/02/video-taiwanese-animators-imagine-bin-ladens-death/

I think it's awesome news, on many levels. Best news I've heard all year. I don't think one should underestimate the value of 'psychological importance' ... we are humans after all, and these things feed back in. This will help a lot of people get at least some sense of closure, and it feels almost to me as though the US is "back in the game" after a long struggle where it felt like nothing went right. This means to me the US can be more of its old confident self again. On a rational level, it signals to markets that it is possible indeed that we can have *some* effective control over these types of risks (which in turn feeds back on eveyrthing from political and business decisions to prices of commodities like oil), and with the world increasingly becoming a huge panopticon as a result of technology, it will be steadily harder and harder for terrorists to operate (and it's already very difficult for today's Al Qaida to ever pull off something on the scale of 9/11 again). Also even in the Muslim world support for bin Laden and his ilk have been steadily lessening over the years, and many Muslims are tired of the trouble these types of people bring on their communities.

"If I may be cynical, it means that the US government will have to invent replacement threats."

Maybe, maybe not. For once, I feel relatively optimistic. Sometimes the pendulum really does swing the other (good) way. The US 'improved' after its era of Japanese concentration camps. It 'improved' after its era of McCarthyist hysteria. Americans are getting fed up with nonsense like the TSA, and the death of Osama (even though there are still lots of bad terrorists out there) is going to make a lot of the perhaps less intelligent populace ask "so why are we still going through all this TSA stuff if Osama is now dead". In fact even yesterday I saw some Americans interviewed in Indonesia who said, fairly incorrectly, "now we can feel safe again". This in turn puts some political pressure on new leaders. Combine that with increasing budget pressures, 9/11 moving ever more into 'past memory', and a new administration worrying about new/different things, it's quite possible that things that can improve. But, the public need to keep the pressure up - ever more demand that nonsense like 4th amendment violations stop.

And celebrations? Seriously? If you ask me anyone who criticizes the celebrations, supports mass-murder and is evil and sick in the head. If a person cannot see why it's a good thing to celebrate here, there is something wrong with them. This is a fantastic reason to celebrate, and the most valid reason for mass celebrations in the US I've seen in a very long time. Party party party and enjoy the moment.

A lot of my more liberal friends seem to be having a crisis of conscience about this. They don't want to be the kind of people who celebrate death. I understand their view, and perhaps they are more enlightened than I am, but I admit I'm a savage. My ID wins. I am delighted this asshole is dead and I'm mentally, if not physically, celebrating in the streets with everyone else. (Not physically because I have a job. College students can do this sort of thing on a weekday.)

Some of my friends are more scared now. That baffles me. What were we supposed to do with him, buy him tea and scones and ask him nicely not to commit acts of mass murder? Yes, terrorists will want us dead now. But they wanted us dead before.

The guy mass-murdered 3000 people and would have loved to murder not only every remaining American, but every non-Muslim in the world. It must take some serious cognitive gymnastics and a total break from reality to convince yourself it isn't something to be happy about, that we managed to find and take out this human trash.

But yes, most peoples morality is not rational, it's just a bunch of arbitrary "rules" that they've been brainwashed with, like "death must always be treated with respect" or some-such, and they panic whenever anyone doesn't follow their rules, as if they have a right to control others. Then because their morality is not based on a rational foundation, sometimes their little collections of "rules" come into conflict with one another.

I think there's a huge difference in being happy he's dead and glad we did it, and in dancing in the streets like ignorant trash. I'd like to think there are zero similarities in us and, say, Iran. I'm dismayed to see we're so eerily similar.

I would happily watch the execution (and I'd like to think happily handle the matter myself) of someone who caused harm to me or mine. But I wouldn't dance in front of the news crews about it like a monkey. Maybe my mom's "never air your dirty laundry in public" admonitions sunk in further than I thought. But I find that level of celebration distasteful. Be mature and get drunk in the privacy of your own home and sing "ding dong, the asshole's gone" like my DH. :)

I see, the SEALS didn't knock first so the raid was illegal and we should have given Bin Laden a head start.

If it takes the same sort of "torture" we put our aircrew through to find the guy who murdered over 3000 Americans, I for one won't lose a minute of sleep over it. I saw the video of Daniel Pearl's execution, and I'm more of an Old Testament kind of guy than most.

I commend our President for being wise enough to tell the SEALS to kill him, because the mere thought of Bin Laden playing our legal system makes me ill.

It has been a very good day. They could have stuffed the body with ham before tossing it overboard, but you can't have everything.

It has been a very good day. They could have stuffed the body with ham before tossing it overboard, but you can't have everything.

I was thinking the same thing, but with Slim Jims.

@Amy Alkon: "Is the 40K person talking about Bush and war in the Middle East? I was against the Iraq war, but I have to say, there's a difference between people being killed in war and innocent civilians being purposefully targeted because the Quran says to convert or kill the infidel."
_________________

It's more about the political for people like 40k. Besides, every time a terrorist would blow up children in Iraq people like 40k would add that to Bush's supposed body count for political reasons.

You win Dave B. You pulled both your military credentials and the nuke card. So when a bad person does something bad, we should nuke them and kill not only him but every soul around them. I'm done talking with you. I'll stick to lurking around here again.

Trust - yes, in much the same way the people who tot up Palestinian death counts also count suicide bombers in the toll (but not their Israeli victims of course).

>>>Reportedly, TW, it was what used to be called Seal Team Six, although apparently it has some other complicated name in the special forces structure now. Nothing is really confirmed yet of course.

It's true that the names of those involved won't be published for a long time if ever - but as much as anything that would be to protect them and their families from retaliation.

LTW,
totally understand the reasons they stay secretive (it makes sense). I figured it was Delta because they had been there at Tora Bora (according to what I read). Delta stays extra secretive so it is hard to know if they were actually there at Tora Bora (but that's what was written). Either way, Delta or Seals, these guys with their off the charts extraordinary ability and unimaginable job descriptions take out guys like UBL......but they never really get more than a highly secretive 'thank you'.

And on top of that, this pretty well sums up the re-election for Obama.

No. It doesn't.

The election wasn't going to be about Osama bin Laden before.

The election isn't going to be about Osama bin Laden now.

"A lot of my more liberal friends seem to be having a crisis of conscience about this. They don't want to be the kind of people who celebrate death."

Just wait until the next time a prominent conservative dies.

That Desert Storm thing didn't save the first Bush from what was perceived to be a bad economy. There is no reason to suppose That Obama will fare differently.

@dave - why would I be offended?

As to the issue of an "islamic reformation", so far as I can tell, the only way that happens is with the eradication of Islam. Unlike Christianity, which regards its holy book as "divinely inspired" (i.e. transcribed by humans), Islam considers theirs to be the indisputable word of God as handed to Mohammed.

How do you reinterpret that without having to admit that God fucked up?

Mohammed was hard of hearing and got it wrong.

"The election isn't going to be about Osama bin Laden now."

Right. John McCain or one the Bush folk wouldn't trumpet their victory over Bin Laden in a Presidential election?

This is going to be a huge campaigning point for Obama.

The GOP leadership is probably going into deep confab over how to trash this success without looking like complete a-holes. America has wanted this for ten years and Obama gave it to us.

The election may be a year off but the Democrats won't let this fade away if they're smart.

@Amy Alkon: "What's amazing are the people from the left on Twitter who tweet that Andrew Breitbart is "a homo" or "a fag." Gay rights, anyone? It's shocking when people -- especially people on the left -- use being gay as an insult."
____________

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me. Most people on the left would not call someone else a fag, but I've long noticed that personal insults are more common tactic on the left. Not because they are worse than the right, but because they more often consider those who disagree with them to be bad people, not just wrong.

"Right. John McCain or one the Bush folk wouldn't trumpet their victory over Bin Laden in a Presidential election?"

They would indeed. But the election is still two years away. By November 2011 it will be old news. And especially if nothing changes in the Middle East between now and then, a lot of people will regard it as not particularly relevant. Besides, the GOP has a comeback: "If it was that easy all along, why did it take Obama two years?"

Besides, the whole issue could wind up being a campaign trap for Obama. Even a lot of supporters these days are willing to concede that he has a really massive ego. If his campaign team deludes themselves into thinking that ObL's capture is a much bigger issue with the voters than it really is, and convinces Obama to make a big deal of it on the campaign trail, it will look to a lot of voters that he's just patting himself on the back and taking credit for work done by others. Never underestimate Obama's ability to make everything all about him.

Ppen, I think you're dodging my question. So a lot of people my not recognize James Earl Ray by a photograph (although I think you might be surprised). Well, let's change it a bit. I'm going gallivanting around South Central with a T-shirt reading "JAMES EARL RAY, AMERICAN HERO". What should I expect to happen? What do I have a right to expect to happen? (And no, I'm not asking this as a "gotcha" question... I want to hear your interpretation of it.)