Thanks for posting this Amy. True and frustrating.

There's a looong story behind it... but let's just say I learned the hard way at my last job that some attractive, well-to-do, and high-achieving women are actually quite *offended* when they learn men of a lower socioeconomic status find them attractive.

It boggles the mind. Almost without fail, women who find themselves in positions of authority or positions where they may give public voice to their thoughts or beliefs...give all the rest of us a reason not to take women seriously.

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?

I didn't start off as a chauvanist, and I don't think most people do. Hell unlike most of them, I actually do have several women around me whom I genuinely do consider to be equals, not only in intellectual capacity, but in drive, work ethic, and overall ability. I'd really like to increase that number, not decrease it.

...But dumb chicks like that "offended" senator seem to be the supermajority. I encounter THEM so often that it has ceased long since to be amusing.

And before the rest of you assert that she's in the minority, consider the various things which pass for scholarship in "Women's studies" and the publications of NOW or Ms magazine, read by millions of women, consider the huge numbers of women who decide they want to be single mothers with full time careers, and then get upset when their career doesn't progress because they're taking time off work to deal with child issues.

I'd lay good odds that every career woman on here can name far more like the above, than like themselves. And I'd lay equally good odds that the men on here can say much the same.

Somebody who succeeds should probably notice that they are going to receive public attention. It didn't hurt Princess Diana's causes to be wonderful to watch her. It's not hurting Danica McKellar's goal of teaching girls never to "dumb down".

Pretending that Beautiful + Smart is not better than Plain + Smart should offend those with a grasp on reality. Oh, wait...

The reason women get offended when men mention their looks is that it is taken to be a come-on or flirtation signal. Mentioning isn't the same as noticing. Flirtation signals are inappropriate in the workplace.

Women don't like lower status men to be flirting with them, because they think that the low-status men perceive THEM to be low-status.

99% of relationship crap is about status.

Ehhhh....at most shes a 6. Out of 10.

I'm actually delighted that men find a 51-year-old woman pretty. (Six? Really? Jeez. I thought you got bonus points for being in a profession where there aren't a lot of hot people.)

Being offended and demanding an apology is the wrong reaction here, and it makes Evans look hypersensitive and bad.

Calderon deserves to be /laughed at/, though, because his observations were inane in the context in which he used them.

If a female U.S. senator said she voted against Obamacare despite "the president being really hot," I would say she sounded like a dingbat.

Even though he totally is.

So, the Senator thinks it is demeaning that the Assemblyman praised the Chief Justice's looks, because it makes her look weak and demanded an apology on her behalf?

You can't make this stuff up, can you?

So it's "how DARE you compliment her!!! Apologize immediately!"

And speaking of beautiful women - Amy, in your Dr. Helen interview I thought the glasses you wore hid your eyes by casting a shadow, or at least that's how it seemed to me. You're a lovely woman but I thought that darkness was a distraction from your beauty. I'm just sayin'.

Maybe Evans will be satisfied once women start wearing veils to cover their faces and burkas.

99% of relationship crap is about status.

But it isn't for men, at least not to that degree. In my experience, men are actually better than women at negotiating varying status arrangements in an organization/institution. Women tend to have a somewhat rigid and hierarchical view of social status, and this is reflected in their treatment of people 'below' them. I think that it's one of the reasons that research has consistently found that both men and women prefer male bosses. Female superiors have a tendency to be abusive and demeaning towards their subordinates. Not all women, of course, but generally.

the human race would likely have died out from nobody looking over and seeing something they wanted to drag into the bushes and hump

Thanks for the morning *snork*. That really made me laugh.

6 out of 10? wow, what tought crowd. With a hyphenated name, I assume she's married. I'm just just disappointed that she probably won't be dragging into the bushes...

For the record, to ward off any accusations, I think all women are smart, powerful, sensitive, and far, far better than any and all men throughout history. And no woman has looks of any kind at all, neither beautiful nor ugly. Women are not to be judged or evaluated on anything, just acknowledged as the superior beings that they, each and every last one of them, are.

I am SO glad to be a bachelor...

"Somebody who succeeds should probably notice that they are going to receive public attention. "

Even more to the point, physical attractiveness (or at least non-unattractiveness) is a necessary condition for winning political office these days. In the Visual Age, ugly people can't win elections anymore, no matter how smart or wise they may be. Richard Nixon will stand as our last unattractive President.

Admittedly, I didn't read the entire article, simply the parts Amy posted. But isn't the Senator demanding an apology on behalf of the Chief Justice a little paternalistic? Isn't the CJ a big girl, with big girl panties, who is perfectly capable of confronting those who dare comment on her attractiveness? I'm a little bit confused at the Senators intentions here. She needs to rescue a pretty lady who holds a position of power from what, exactly?

I'm so tired of special interests speaking on behalf of people before they obtain permission to do so.

yeah, Meloni, my first thought too...

and a cheif justice? her word already carries a lot of weight just based on respect for the office. all she'd have to do is tell the councilman or whatever to keep his observations to himself, and we would be done here. He'd prolly apologize on the spot...

but see, you can't control everything if you don't get to be annoyed on someone elses behalf, and you don't get to muscle your own agenda if you can't make demands on behalf of your [supposed] group.

I'm sure it tears the senator up inside thinking about the very IDEA, that the Chief Justice might be gracious and accepting of the complement, even if it is misplaced.

In this way she is also demanding that the Chief Justice tow the line, and be outraged too.
What sound do harpies make?

Meanwhile the state is going bankrupt.

That's some mighty fine legislatin' there, Noreen.

I see this as an attempt by Ms Evans to level the playing field. Sexy women have real power & advantages in life. By making it a thoughtcrime for men to notice, hags like Evans are trying to take this power & advantage away from any woman sexier than they are. So is Evans being patronizing towards the judge - "oh you poor thing, harassed by that filthy man!" - or threatening - "don't flaunt it, bitch"?

Would a short, pudgy, balding boss get upset like this if women in his office noticed how tall, fit, and handsome one of the other guys in the office was? Nope, because he's the boss, and therefore secure in his status, which is based on his power & success in life. Women like Evans see things differently.

If some journalist would by any chance find any bills from any beautition services paid by Sen. Noreen Evans, would it make the Senator's talk a pure PC BS?

I don't see how you can paint this as a feminist thing, if you went to Iran and said to some guy, "Your sister is really beautiful", do you think he'd be like, "How kind and thoughtful of you to notice!"?

It's not just a neurotic American thing. Sure their are cultures where people can openly praise womens' beauty, but in many places it is considered intimate, and an insult if it isn't followed by "I will immediately ask her father for her hand". On some subconscious level, it's like calling her a whore. Silly, yes, but it evokes a primal reaction.

The comment about the burkas was spot on, its the same line of thinking, in a different cultural context. In America we don't honor kill people for these things, but as a society we find it distasteful. Rightly or wrongly.

Yeah, but I thought Calderon went too far when he said, "plus, Chief Justice Tani Cantil-Sakauye has super tits."

Is Sen. Evans going to demand an apology from the Sacramento Bee for publishing a photo of the Chief Justice in a cheerleader's uniform as part of its story on her confirmation? (See the final picture in the Bee's photo gallery at: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/08/25/2983501/commission-confirms-tani-cantil.html [caption also noting that she was homecoming queen and voted prettiest eyes])

It isn't feminist propaganda... being whistled at has always had an undercurrent of the insult, even if women were secretly flattered they were at least -supposed- to pretend to be upset. This predates the 70s.

I agree that it is silly. But the whole "being told you're beautiful in the wrong context" thing is insulting to lots of women, and has been since before the feminist movement.

And he would TOTALLY try to behead you for looking up her chador. Is he brainwashed by feminist propaganda?

The difference IS, NicoleK, it is up to the individual woman to decide if she is happy or offended by being complemented. NOT SOME OTHER UNRELATED WOMAN.

Why is it insulting to some women and not others? In some situations but not others? Boyo crossed a line, but the ONLY person who needs to call for an apology is the Judge... If she isn't secure enough to just let it pass. I'd bet money that she is more than secure.

ETA: This is the very attitude that keeps me from complementing co-workers on their new outfit, or hairstyle etc.

Just to make sure I don't accidentally get someone's nose bent out of shape, I treat evey woman the same. I don't notice how they look at all. I don't notice them as people at all, only as professionals in a genderless environment. It makes the workplace quite dreary, really. And makes what could be friendly, cold.

"But the whole "being told you're beautiful in the wrong context" thing is insulting to lots of women, and has been since before the feminist movement"

No offense, NicoleK, but only someone with a sense of privilege and entitlement (to exert absolute control over potential sexual interactions) could possibly be insulted. Time for all you pretty ladies to "check your privilege" ? (How about the women who live their whole lives without EVER being told they are beautiful? Do you want to ruin THEIR chances, too?)

The thing about Feminazism is, it wants to turn the "insult" of noticing a woman's attractiveness into a criminal offense -- but only if done by the "wrong" man!

By the way, Guys (and some Girls), thanks for the comments that show I'm not the only "misogynist" lurking here! (For the record, I only exult in another's pain when it is inflicted by truth on the willfully ignorant.)

There's nothing wrong or degrading about calling the woman pretty or nice, but what did it have to do with whether the legislation was appropriate?

The chief justice's personal appeal should be irrelevant. He sounded silly.

Meh, she's not too bad for a politician/judge and definately has kept herself in good health. The hyphenated name kinda ruins all of that for me though.

The senator just futhers the proof that "misogynists aren't born, they're made".

The thing about Feminazism is, it wants to turn the "insult" of noticing a woman's attractiveness into a criminal offense -- but only if done by the "wrong" man!

EXACTLY Jay R. That's what especially galls me about what happened. I'd be willing to bet serious $$$ that if I had been something more than an office assistant to the woman (a psychologist! too, FWIW) who made my life hell, she would have treated me with more respect and shared her concerns about my behavior (I was accused primarily of "staring" excessively) with me *personally*. But she was high on the totem pole and I wasn't, so she felt perfectly content to go straight to my bosses and throw a tantrum, complete with a bunch of false allegations that she *knew* would never be challenged because of her oh-so-special status with other staff.

Anyway, like SwissArmyD said, at my next job I'm going to go out of my way to avoid and have as little contact as possible with women, *especially* if they're attractive. I don't need any more trouble in my life from pretty, rich, entitled princesses than I've already had, thank you very much.

Anyone who's watched a legislative session, or read the transcripts, will recognize that there is a lot of glad handing that goes on - my esteemed friend and colleague, the wise and honorable .. yada yada yada. Sometimes speakers will play on this and mock the tradition a bit by throwing in these sorts of buttery compliments - e.g. and he's a very handsome man as well!! But it's unusual for a legislator to insult or demean someone, even an enemy. It's considered bad form.

Calderon's comments seem to be in this vein, and the fact that the CJ hasn't responded indicates that she doesn't want to make anything of them. It's likely that she'd taken no offense, and recognized them in the light that they were presented. It's actually more demeaning for someone else to take offense on her behalf, because it diminishes her standing in relation to the legislature. Evans isn't defending the CJ, she'd trying to bring her down to her own level, and to improve her personal standing in the bargain.

"It's not just a neurotic American thing. Sure their are cultures where people can openly praise womens' beauty, but in many places it is considered intimate, and an insult if it isn't followed by "I will immediately ask her father for her hand". On some subconscious level, it's like calling her a whore."

Said cultures are almost all Muslim. Are you really suggestion we should treat our women the way that Islam treats theirs?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8yfcM8THWE4/0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wn.com/Noreen_Evans&usg=__vTrX5m1nXsJZa9AOBy9sirfUfg0=&h=360&w=480&sz=15&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=2ZMZSJwzEotPYM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=177&ei=-_nBTc-lCYni0QGAqKnkBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DNoreen%2BEvans%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-ContextMenu%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D603%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divnslo&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=235&vpy=260&dur=6207&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=132&ty=126&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0

I can see why Mr Ed doesnt like a guy making comments about attractive women

Also, sexual harasment and you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY

Ok I used to be one of those women that got totally offended when someone commented on how I look. It's true I only got offended when it was a gardener or someone on the lower social ladder. What made me get over it was realizing men look and I'm not the only one being looked at. Also I got the confidence to open my mouth and defend myself. I've had problems with men I know who crossed a line and I put them in their place by well learning to talk like men do. I have defended myself in front of people by being quite peppered with my words. Afterward women have come up to me and told me thanks for doing what was deserved and men have told they find it quite refreshing in a woman.

One of my female coworkers by the way anytime someone does something she is not pleased with goes to her husband and asks him to defend her! I want to pull my hair out!

Um, Cousin Dave, did I say it SHOULD be that way? No, I did not, I said it was silly. I said it IS that way.

Jay R, why the heck should I be offended by your statement? Of course it's about status, that's what I'm saying, re-read my messages.

Swiss Army, you're right, its odd that the other woman got involved. It wasnt really her business.

And of course most of those countries are Islamic. The fundamental difference between us and the Muslims isnt the sentiment, its the reaction. They put restrictions on the women, we put them on the men.

Apart from what NicoleK said about the workplace, I cannot see why women take offense when somebody mentions that a woman is attractive. As cruel as it may seem to some, taking a woman's looks into account is apparently smart, if you want to have kids. Also, physical beauty is said to correspond with good health.

Plus, women remark about men's looks, too. FOX News anchor Alysin Camerota once suggested, for women looking to marry, that they marry the cutest guys they could find, which is what she did.

I didn't know what any of these women looked like, but somehow I knew the senator was not going to be very attractive. So I googled, and I was right. I'm sure if someone were mentioning her attractiveness, she wouldn't have her panties in such a wad.

How marvellous i think im going to barf with excitement.