I prefer to be asked out as well. Single for now, and not looking to change anytime soon. Guys seem to be not up to it you know? Oh well, their loss! :)

First, get her blood type....

I think email is actually the ideal vehicle for a first-date request. It gives the woman (or man) time to consult a calendar and compose a gracious "no, thanks" if necessary, without having to deliver that news on the phone.

Wondering if you're single? Fine.

Three choices? No. One well-selected choice leaves the option for "That sounds great," "No, thank you," or "Thanks for the invitation. I'm doing X that day, but I would enjoy seeing you some other time."

A first date should be somewhere in public (possible exception is if you're already friends and this is an escalation of that friendship). Meeting at someone's house? No.

And I don't like the 10 a.m. thing, but consider this: He may have wanted to do something early to avoid the Big Saturday Night Date on the first outing. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (and a mulligan).

Overall, this was not an impolite request for a date - but the pick-one-of-three-activities isn't good. He may have thought it was thoughtful to offer a choice, but how much more debonair to throw out one well-chosen invitation and see where it lands?

From what I've heard, more and more men are getting tired of having to spend ANY money on the first date - maybe because they might have to pay for 10 dates with 10 women before finding a woman who's willing to see him for a second date - and she may not be willing to pay for the second date, either.

Of course, any man with a GOOD-paying job is going to find himself surrounded by women of all income levels - and what the women have in common is that few will be willing to do half of the date invitations - i.e., half the paying. This is why many men complain that "whoever invites, pays" isn't a fair rule for men.

This is also investment banker/columnist/Fox News commentator Marc Rudov's biggest peeve. You can see him rant about it on Youtube if you like - one 14-minute video is titled "Will She Buy YOU Dinner?"

cool site Cridster, but makes me feel powerfully old. :shrug:

As for the other Amy, I always sucked at dating, so I can't help you... I tend to want to at least be acquainted with a person, BEFORE I ask them out. That's prolly WAY old fashioned.

Yeah, the man-with-a-plan thing has always been key to me. I've even said "yes" to a few guys I had no initial physical attraction to because they were forthright with their requests and really sold me on the plan. "That sounds fun!" I'd think to myself, rather than, "Do I want to spend a couple hours with this guy?"

> makes me feel powerfully old.

It gets worse every minute.

If all else fails, you could always try some of these lines

Damnit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSqP-DlHYVs

Strategy:

(notice woman, appreciate that she is beautiful by looking her over, and decide to approach her.) Walk up to her, say, "Hello, I'm Robert, I saw you from over there and wondered if your personality was as lovely as the rest of you. Can I buy you a drink? (Or) Would you like to join me for a cup of coffee? (Or) fill in the blank as circumstances apply.

Statements may vary, but the jist of it is to be polite, eloquent, well dressed, and not at all hesitant.

Frankly I've never mind paying for dinner, if a woman's company is not worth dinner, she's not worth dating, and she's probably not worth sleeping with either. That said, a woman should do her part during dinner and be engaging and nonbitchy.

Went to dinner once with a woman who spent the first 15 minutes talking about how she didn't need a man. The next 15 complaining about her job, the next 15 complaining about her ex...you get the drift. I concluded the date, performed my duty as a gentleman to see her safely home, and then never called her again.

Didn't help that my wife was a real pain in the ass when I got home that night.

;) Kidding about that last part, she wasn't. 'lol'

But on a serious note, I don't ask a girl out so I can be a pretend psychiatrist or therapist or some such. I hope to have a great time. Maybe have great sex. Maybe get to know somebody worth knowing. The man might initiate, he might take the burden of picking the place, and pay for the dinner and the drinks, but the girl has a job too there. Be fun, be interesting, be interestED. Not a terrible or oppressive role I shouldn't think.

First, find out if she presses charges...

...but the jist of it is to be polite, eloquent, well dressed, and not at all hesitant.

Robert's got it down!! This is exactly what I like about a guy who asks me out. Confidence is key!

...and what the women have in common is that few will be willing to do half of the date invitations - i.e., half the paying. This is why many men complain that "whoever invites, pays" isn't a fair rule for men.

Believe me, leona, if I like a guy, and we had a good time, and plan to see each other again, I certainly will reciprocate, usually with a homemade meal. Depending on the circumstance (and time of year), I have made a picnic lunch (southern fried chicken, tossed salad, potato salad, and a homemade apple pie for dessert), or a pot roast with all the trimmings; I've even asked a guy if he wanted to spend an afternoon making chili and watching movies. HE did, and he also made sweet potato fries! (Dunno why I ever let that one get away, but I'm really happy with the one I have now! He got a buck last week and we butchered it and packed it in the freezer together!)

"From what I've heard, more and more men are getting tired of having to spend ANY money on the first date - maybe because they might have to pay for 10 dates with 10 women before finding a woman who's willing to see him for a second date - and she may not be willing to pay for the second date, either."

If you had the chance to go on a date with Angelina Jolie (or whichever woman you find most attractive) you'd pay, right? And maybe spring for a 5 star restaurant too. I'm not saying that I'm Angelina Jolie, but I want a guy who is interested enough in me and attracted enough to me to spend the 10 to 20 bucks on a date. It's not about getting a free meal--I can get that at my parent's house, and I don't have to dress up for it either--but about show that you're interested enough to invest more than $0 in seeing me again.

I've also literally never had a guy NOT pay on the first date, or even first couple dates if it progresses that far. So someone who didn't pay is already setting himself apart, and not in a good way. Some women may not care, or convince themselves that they don't care, but these are probably the ones with low self esteem or no better prospects. And some women may be adamant about paying their share for "equality" reasons, but these are probably also the feminist type who don't believe in shaving, or gender roles, and may curse you out if you hold the door for them.

Paying on the first date is also a social convention that serves as a signaling mechanism to indicate interest. If a guy asks me to split the bill, I'm going to assume that he's no longer interested or never was in the first place, and I'm moving on. Similarly, if know I won't want to see him again or am not interested in him romantically, then I can get the message across by insisting on paying my half. Someone who doesn't adhere to this risks sending the message that they aren't interested when they really are, thus losing out on the chance of another date.

Finally, if you have to go on 10 dates before finding someone willing to see you a second time, then you're doing something wrong. Either it's you, or you're asking out women too indiscriminately, or going after a type that you're not really compatible with. Of course, if you're the type of person who posts 14 minute YouTube videos ranting about how women are golddigging whores and dating conventions are so unfairrrr, then it's not exactly a surprise that women may not want to go on a second date with you.

I don't know Eric - that's a good thing to check nowadays!

I heard of a great first date once. I don't know how he asked her out, but when he showed up to pick her up, he handed her 3 envelopes, and told her to pick one. She did, opened it, and it led to a book at the town library. Another 3 envelopes. She picked one, it listed a place to eat. They went there, and I think there was one more round afterwards.

Gave them time to talk while in transit, had an air of adventure and spontaneity and showed he'd clearly put work and thought into his night with her.

I never responded to anything but an actual phone call.

I stopped taking women to dinner for a first date years ago. It was practically a guarantee that I'd never hear from her again after that. Now it's just 'out for a drink' (even though I rarely drink). Saves me money too.

Flynne said:
Believe me, lenona, if I like a guy, and we had a good time, and plan to see each other again, I certainly will reciprocate, usually with a homemade meal.
____________________

Good for you. "Complete Tightwad Gazette" author Amy Dacyczyn would certainly approve - after all, it shows you're willing to make an effort and be creative.

Rudov, unfortunately, is a different story - not only does he want a FULL 50% from women, he's even complained about homecooked meals, claiming that in his experience, they're usually more expensive (WHAT?) than the average modest restaurant meal anyway, that women who do that are trying to avoid the scary formality of actually treating a man to a restaurant meal, and he would very much prefer the formality. (Of course, if people proved to him that home cooked meals can easily be cheaper than eating out, he'd likely accuse the women of being stingy. His point was that IHO, women would not be too likely to have a second date with a MAN who treated them to a home-cooked picnic rather than a restaurant meal.)

Amy writes: A guy who sees me from time to time at my writing cafe asked for my card on Saturday.

So, he wouldn't have accepted it from you on a Friday?

melody: I prefer to be asked out as well.

I prefer not to be asked out at all.

Email is only appropriate if you are online dating.

I have read that a woman knows within 10 seconds whether or not she will ever sleep with a guy. That makes sense to me, since I know pretty quickly whether I am attracted to a woman or not.

If I initiate a conversation and she turns toward me, smiles and seems to be attracted, I would ask her out for a drink or if I could buy her coffee or whatever. It may be that she is just a friendly person with a husband or boyfriend and I get turned down, but you never know if you don't ask. (This was before I started dating my wife)

I like Robert's approach and I never minded paying for the first few dates since I was picky about who I asked out.

About 20 years ago, I was in the dentist's chair having some old fillings removed and replaced. The dental assistant was suctioning pieces of the filling, blood and saliva out of my mouth and all I could think about was how attractive she was.

I was still thinking about her when I got back to the office, so I waited until about 5 minutes to the hour when I knew she wouldn't be with a patient and called the office and asked her out. We only had the one date and I don't remember who wasn't interested in a second one.

In answer to Amy's original question:

-10am is wayyy too early for a first date unless you're doing an activity that has to be start at then. I'd raise an eyebrow at someone who isn't socially saavy enough to realize that the majority of the world sleeps in on Saturdays mornings.

-Meeting at his house makes him seem lazy. After all, it's the least possible effort for him, especially when you're the one who has to set your alarm an extra 30 minutes early to get there. Unless it absolutely makes more logistical sense for you to meet at his house then it I think it's better to have a common meeting place, or at least for him to offer to pick you up.

-The problem with asking someone out via email is that it eliminates the opportunity of an immediate back-and-forth. If you're talking on the phone, you can start out with "would you like to go out sometime?" and progress into "so what are you doing Friday night?" That way, you can find out if the person you're interested in has a boyfriend BEFORE launching into the detailed itinerary with three separate options (good to have in your head, kinda looks desperate when spelled out all at once).

Rudov, unfortunately, is a different story - not only does he want a FULL 50% from women, he's even complained about homecooked meals, claiming that in his experience, they're usually more expensive (WHAT?) than the average modest restaurant meal anyway, that women who do that are trying to avoid the scary formality of actually treating a man to a restaurant meal, and he would very much prefer the formality.

Well, lenona, then that tells me I wouldn't want to date Rudov, EVER!! LOL!

And yeah, while a homemade meal is cheaper, I think it tastes better (unless the woman isn't a really good cook, in which case she should probably just suck it up and take the guy to dinner, or something. Or maybe call the restaurant and have them deliver?). Rudov sounds like someone who is so miserable that he's not happy unless everyone else is miserable too!

I dated a couple of women who did not have a lot of money. I was happy that they made dinner for me once in a while or bought an ice cream cone or a coffee.

What I was looking for was someone who wasn't always a taker. The willingness to open her wallet, even for something inexpensive, was enough for me.

Could be worse. You could have received one of these:

Do u like me?

Check this box for YES!

___
! !
! !
!___!

Box fail. Sad face.

nah it
s OK Gog, it's a conversation starter... ;)

Hellooo Robert ~ ever get to the Central Coast?

Maybe Rudov would rather be a woman.

Well, I recently learned that asking a woman if she had a boyfriend was sexist and implied she was property, I should ask HER out, and HER alone. This made me realize that we weren't a good match, as I have a low tolerance for BS, and I didn't have to buy her dinner to find that out...

I get the feeling that the guy who approached Amy found inspiration for his approach from watching "Hitch." I wouldn't have thrown out so many options for a possible date, and definitely no 10 am start time at my house. But I have to give the the guy for taking a shot, even clumsily.

Congrats Amy! Getting asked out by a total stranger sounds very flattering! I don't the whole email idea either though. The "man with a plan" is definitely preferable.

I don't get asked out. I think it's the whole short/fat/ugly thing.

Fortunately met & married a man who is attracted to my stunning personality. ;) Oh wait, maybe it's my intelligence!

Seriously though, even before I married, I didn't get asked out by random strangers, only by people after they got to know me and realized that looks aren't everything.

On the email/texting for a date thing, I wouldn't do that, certainly not for a first date anyway. But I get the feeling that I'm out of touch on that. From what I've seen, it seems to be pretty common among the younger set these days. I'll have to ask my mom if it was once considered impolite to ask for a date by telephone instead of in person.

I would hang out at the Apple store and wait for a hot redhead to show up so I could impress her with my nerdity, but I hear that that's been done.

pic

My MO I guess.
Call for first date, have a plan in mind but also have a backup, or option if the first doesn't work. I don't like texts at all, and e-mail I don't see for asking out on a first date, unless you have no other way.
Why not e-mail? delay time, I was trying to just organize something with a friend by e-mail, replies would get back to me usually the next morning, so it took 2 days to tweek the plans a little to fit everyones schedule.

The above discussion makes a home-cooked meal just sound like an economical decision. I've always found them to be pretty intimate compared to most dates. The bedroom is 10 feet away, the food is actually prepared by her, for you (or vice versa), the wine is flowing...I learned a long time ago I don't do these unless I'm serious.

"10am is wayyy too early for a first date unless you're doing an activity that has to be start at then. I'd raise an eyebrow at someone who isn't socially saavy enough to realize that the majority of the world sleeps in on Saturdays mornings."

While I agree that 10 am is not a good time for a first date, who beyond teenagers and college students sleep in late enough on a Saturday to be unable to get somewhere by 10 am? I get up at 5:30 during the week for work, so sleeping til 8 on a Saturday is a treat!!

If a man turns his nose up at a home-cooked meal, that says a lot about him -- including that he sees all costs in terms of money spent. Time is worth something, and you can't translate to dollars the amount of time someone spends planning, shopping, cooking and cleaning up. Looking down on home-cooked meals says quite a lot about his approach to money and work, and none of it flattering.

Being more traditional in dating -- the man asking the woman out -- gives him a lot go flexibility to plan something that fits in his budget. If money's really tight, he can ask her out for coffee and spend very little in deciding whether he'd like to see her again.

How do I like being asked out? Flirting helps - if I'm smiling and receptive, ask for my number or if I'd like to go out sometime. Personally, I find being approached solely based on how I look kind of off-putting (that's just me) but if we're at a bookstore, ask about the book I'm looking at, or some other conversation starter. I'm not shy and I like to talk, so I don't have a problem carrying a conversation. AND DON'T NEG.

If you think dinner's too intense, that's fine. I don't have an issue with the 'just coffee' or ice cream date. And as for paying, get the hell over it - if you don't want to pay for dinner, don't invite someone out for dinner. I've always been of the opinion that if you did the inviting, you should offer to/expect to pay for it (man OR woman), and it's up to the other person to reciprocate/offer to pay. There's no reason to make paying more awkward than it has to be. I don't really get complaining about having to pay for someone's dinner if you were the one who asked them out in the first place (or pick a cheap place, or just go for coffee and dessert or something).

I still prefer to call (or of course, ask in person) for a first date. It just seems more polite. But 10 years off the dating scene has left me a bit out of touch I guess - most women I meet these days want a text instead. Calling seems to come across as too heavy.

Plus, I really want to know - when did answering texts at dinner become acceptable? I don't mean when you have a family member in hospital or something, just general catch up stuff. My phone stays in my damn pocket unless it's a work thing, in which case I excuse myself, go outside to deal with it as quickly as possible, and come back. I'm a smoker too, and I ask my dates for their permission to go out for a cigarette. Courtesy anyone?

A friend of mine who coached me through my first date in 10 years sent me a message while I was out for dinner - "Hope it's going well, and what the hell are you doing checking your phone!" Naturally I didn't answer, which of course is what she wanted.

Plus, I really want to know - when did answering texts at dinner become acceptable?

The answer to your rhetorical question is never. It's never OK to text at the table. I resolved this situation once by texting my friend, who was busily texting away across the table, asking her how she was enjoying her dinner.

Ha MonicaP love that! But it wasn't a rhetorical question - I must have missed a memo, I really want to know when it became standard practice. 2005 maybe?

Flynne said:
Rudov sounds like someone who is so miserable that he's not happy unless everyone else is miserable too!
______________________

He's definitely a hothead, yeah. A divorced dad, too. Also, as I implied, his relative wealth puts him in the same boat as famous male entertainers/athletes who complain they can't find any women who aren't golddiggers. Not exactly men you feel sorry for.

His weak point is that he can't stop from making ridiculous assertions, such as when he says that with all the modern contraceptives, no American adult female gets "accidentally" pregnant unless she wants to. Tell that to all the thousands of adult females who, last year, had early abortions. Maybe, just maybe, it's really because women can be just as dumb - or in denial - as men, when it comes to sex? Not to mention that even the Pill has a real-life failure rate of 6%, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute?

(Not to mention that he, like most MRAs, has little or no interest in helping men get their hands on better male contraception.)

Shannon said:
Paying on the first date is also a social convention that serves as a signaling mechanism to indicate interest. If a guy asks me to split the bill, I'm going to assume that he's no longer interested or never was in the first place, and I'm moving on.
_____________________

I should have spelled things out more. What I meant was that many men would prefer to do FREE things - at least on the first date. No need for money to be spent at all - especially when times are tough, as they so often are. Even if a man had to pay only for three women before finding someone who wanted to go on a second date, I can see how that could lead to resentment. For that reason, when a man asks me out, I always try to suggest something free. (Besides, in my view, Americans in general don't really spend money on people - whether they're male or female - with no strings attached.)

Here's a comment from the old Glenn Sacks blog:

"This all has very little to do with money. Neither does it have anything to do with fancy-shmancy arguments. It's really quite simple.
If I'm sitting across the table from a woman who touts her grrrlll power during a date, and then when the check comes, she runs for the women's room or hides her head in the sand, I know she's full of S__t. She's a con artist and a liar. Why? Because she claims to be one thing, then acts like another thing.

"THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.

"I'll say it again:

"THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.

"The issue, for me at least, is CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY. It's about someone saying 'This is what I am,' and then acting that way."

(end)

He may have a point, assuming he didn't formally ask her out, but he's clearly missing the obvious - that it only makes sense to determine in ADVANCE who's going to be paying for what, to avoid AWKWARDNESS. Seems to me, when you're the man "invited," it's as easy as saying: "Sounds
nice. Are we going Dutch?" (Few women, I hope, would splutter and say: "I thought YOU would pay for ME.") If you don't want to go Dutch, you
can say: "Sounds nice, but I'm afraid we'll have to go out some other time - I'm saving money for X." Then, at least, the woman is free to say "no, I mean I want to treat you to lunch." IF she means that.

Miss Manners wrote in the 1990 book "Miss Manners' guide for the turn-of-the-millennium" that when a woman who is not a hooker still goes around trying to get men to buy drinks for her, a man can say: "And here I was hoping you'd buy me one."

that it only makes sense to determine in ADVANCE who's going to be paying for what, to avoid AWKWARDNESS.

And this is why having some traditions is good. Dating is stressful enough without having to rewrite the rules with every encounter. If I invited a guy over for dinner, I didn't expect him to pay for half the groceries. I invited him, so I paid for them. If he invited me, I assumed he was choosing something that was not a financial hardship for him to cover.

For what it's worth, I also get cranky about rewriting the rules for things like funerals. We don't need to be creative. We have perfectly good plans already in place for these things.

Christ, I'm getting to be an old crab.

If anyone's interested, here's what Rudov said in 2006:

......It amazes me that, in an era when females fly combat missions in Iraq, captain the space shuttle, head major universities and corporations, and represent the United States to foreign governments, many women refuse to treat men to dinner in restaurants. The fault does not lie entirely with women, though.

If a woman won’t buy dinner, it’s because her man tolerates it. Some men are too chicken to insist on reciprocity, for fear of not getting laid. Others believe they can control their girlfriends through largesse. Finally, there are guys, whose wallets apparently are bigger than their testicles, who feel emasculated in the presence of cash-wielding babes willing to fete them. One could conclude that the self-confident man is a rarity today.

After hearing case after case of anecdotal evidence, I decided to conduct a wining/dining poll on my Website, in the last two weeks of March. My objective was to quantify the attitudes of men and women about who treats for dinner in restaurants.

I specifically say restaurants because I don’t accept an oft-heard woman’s contention that making dinner in her home is tantamount to buying it in a public restaurant. It ain’t the same. Nothing beats the experience of a woman bold and emancipated enough to extract her credit card from her purse, in public view, and hand it to the waiter to buy me dinner. It rocks.

I divided my wining/dining poll into separate polls for men and women, respectively — men couldn’t see how the women were voting, and vice versa. I asked men whether or not they like women to buy (not offer to buy) them dinner in restaurants, and I asked women whether or not they like to buy (not offer to buy) men dinner in restaurants.

The men and women voted according to marital status and age, to uncover and reflect any differences in those categories. I received responses from 420 men and 258 women, for a total of 678. The tables with the results of the two polls are shown below:

(sorry that I can't seem to post the charts)

Table 1. Men’s Wining/Dining Poll

In Table 1 above, the long green bars make it easy to deduce that most men want women to buy them dinners in restaurants. In fact, 79.9% (but not 100%) want that — in line with my earlier comments. Corresponding to general demographics, there were no under-35 voters who are divorced or widowed, and just a few never-marrieds over 50.

The “under-35-never-marrieds” are the most-inexperienced and -insecure men, in favor of being treated by a ratio of only 1.75:1. The 35-50-year-old divorced/widowed men, by a ratio of 7.86:1, are the most receptive to female culinary generosity, followed by the divorced/widowed over 50 at 6.41:1 and the 35-50-year-old never-marrieds at 5.89:1. All in all, guys are on board with women treating them for dinner in restaurants.

Table 2 below depicts a different story, as I expected. Overall, only 60.5% of women like to treat men to dinner — meaning that 39.5% expect to be wined and dined. Compared with the male voting, all female voting ratios are close — 2:1 or lower, meaning high ambivalence.

The most-generous group, by a ratio of just 2.04:1, is the never-married women over 50. Following are the never-marrieds between 35 and 50, at 1.98:1. Interestingly, the divorced/widowed under 35 and over 50 are the stingiest, sharing the ratio of 1:1.

The highest number of positive responses came from the 35-50-year-old divorced/widowed women, even though the category posted the third-highest total ratio, at 1.80:1.

The wining/dining poll shows with specificity what I have learned anecdotally through my own dating experiences, conversations with friends, e-mails from readers, and radio interviews: there is a big disconnect between what men want and what women want. What’s new?

The poll doesn’t show everything, however. A lot of men who say they like women to treat them don’t always demand it. They should. Giving is not the man’s job. If a woman doesn’t reciprocate, without your prompting, why do you want to be with her? Dump her.

It’s sad to meet guys who are silently resentful but complicit in the female-entitlement game. They will grumble to their friends, and to me, but they won’t challenge women to their faces — all because they are afraid they won’t get laid.

The worst culprit is the man who accepts a dinner invitation from a generous woman, making him her guest, but he grabs the check at the last minute, refusing to let her pay — as if he has the authority to overrule her. Insecure guy. Stupid guy. Weak woman. Disingenuous woman.

Based on everything I’ve culled from this exercise and all my experiences to date, I’ve concluded that male and female diners fit into seven categories, as shown below:

1. The man who likes it when a woman buys him dinner

2. The man who would like a woman to buy him dinner but is afraid to say so and and relents to pay when the check arrives

3. The man who doesn't like it when a woman buys him dinner

4. The woman who likes to buy a man dinner and does it

5. The woman who does not like to buy a man dinner and never offers

6. The woman who does not like to buy a man dinner but makes a disingenuous, fake offer—hoping he will refuse her offer

7. The woman who WOULD buy a man dinner but is afraid to offend him and never offers.

Only the men and women in categories #1 and #4 above, respectively, are straightforward, above-board, agenda-free, entitlement-free people. Those in the other five categories, however, are either content to live in perpetual states of mystery, unspoken feelings, and awkwardness or are selfish gameplayers. Either way, danger lurks on the horizon, as we shall see........

(snip)

I always thought I was open minded about who pays/asks/drives/etc. but then a few months ago I went on a pretty bad first date (it still wasn't my worst first date...) and my opinion changed.

He chose a nice restaurant (we're young and he's in a doctorate program, so I was surprised since this place is fairly expensive) and we had a great dinner (awesome conversation, lots of joking around). I have always offered to go Dutch on a date. Some guys agree to it, but NEVER on a first date. I offered on this date and he agreed. I brought cash, but my dinner was more expensive than I'm used to, so I was rifling around in my purse for some additional bills that I knew were somewhere at the bottom of my purse.

I finally found them and put it in the bill booklet. He turned to me and said "Oh, I didn't think you would have enough so I covered you." (This is the part where you assume he's going to hand that money back and say he's got it covered, right? Nope.) "So I'll just take this. Now we're even." I watched as he made change for himself. I was so stunned I didn't even check to see if he left a tip (I had factored tip into the amount I left, but he took my additional money so I only hope he left enough. If I hadn't been so shocked, I would have checked myself.) I really hope we didn't stiff the waiter.

I've never had a problem going Dutch before, so I was surprised at how quickly my impression of this guy changed.

If you think about it, my view of this man probably should change. By inviting me somewhere nice and then having me pay my portion to the point where he made sure it was split exactly even, he was giving me a preview into what he would be like in the long term. If the first date is you on your best behavior and you act like a 5 year old meticulously splitting a piece of pie so that you don't lose out on even the smallest crumble of crust - what other areas of your life is that going to spill over to? If we go somewhere will you track the mileage and I'll have to drive us around until I make up the difference? Are we going to institute exact cash values for gifts and if mine is less than yours, will I "owe" you? Will I only get to orgasm once just because that's all you're able to do? The first two would be annoying. The last one is a deal breaker.

I still might have given this guy a chance, except when we walked to our cars (we parked next to each other), I found out that I'd dropped my keys on my seat and locked myself out. He asked if I was going to call AAA and I told him I had family nearby with a spare key. He nodded, hopped into his car and drove off.

He left me in a parking garage, alone, waiting for my brother to bring me a spare key. That, my friends, wasn't the final nail in the coffin. That was the last clump of dirt thrown onto the damn grave.

He continued to ask me out to nice (read: expensive) restaurants and grew agitated when I told him I wasn't interested. Apparently, I'm "just like the others". Oh, and the kicker? His email address was White_Knight_####@hotmail/gmail/yahoo.com (I'll protect his anonymity a little). Talk about false advertisement.

The man I'm seeing now doesn't make as much as me - and I still try to go Dutch or pay - but he says he likes to treat me. It shows his generosity, and he's generous in many areas.

Actually -- way too many rules made by way too many people with no correspondence or consistency among them, damn little courtesy, and no inclination to communicate their expectations. You are just "supposed to know." So, the hell with it. There are worse things than being alone and worse things than being lonely. Books are cheap.

Zoogie,
Good for you, girl. Even if he had paid for dinner, leaving you alone in a parking garage is completely unexcusable. I wouldn't blame you for never taking his calls again.

I'll never ask a guy out first, but if a guy asks me out and I must decline, I see it as fair game to ask him out.

First dates: I prefer situations with the least amount of pressure. Coffee or drinks is good. I avoid dinner because with my nervousness comes clumsiness, and who needs to worry about food in their teeth and dropping food while trying to get to know another person? Plus, when meeting for coffee or drinks, the date can easily be expanded or concluded based on the connection.

I won't meet guys at their house or in a rural area if I don't know them. Fortunately most guys seem aware of the need for a woman to feel safe (and they probably want to avoid potential psychos as well). The others are either clueless or looking for a booty call, in which case I'm not interested.

I am recently divorced after a 10 year relationship, and things have changed a lot since I last dated. Texting, for example, has become the norm. I suppose I would be offended, but it is so darn convenient to converse via text, and so easy to multi-task while doing it!

Online dating- I like if a guy messages me in a friendly manner. Not hey babe, text me... In a bar- just during friendly conversation it's alright maybe after talking for 45 minutes and we have stuff in common, like 'hey we should get together sometime over coffee etc, can i have your number, or exchange numbers, something like that. Same with online, if we email a few times and seem like we click then meeting for a short period of time, in a public place is good to see if there's chemistry is good. I hate eating food with people I don't know, so asking me to dinner would make me cringe. Although since adding at the end of my intro for my online dating site, that I would prefer to not receive phone numbers, emails are better, my inbox inquiries has dropped significantly. guess it's a great place to meet a hookup for a lot of guys, despite that the common advertisement says 'more relationships, more marriages than any other dating site' it doesn't work for me.

@Joyce -- my husband & I met through on-line dating. His experience was that there are a LOT of serial e-mailers out there. Women who just want a pen-pal, not to ever meet in person. Not sure how you've worded your request for e-mails over a phone number, but it may come off as a warning sign that you're never going to get beyond e-mail!

"I'll never ask a guy out first, but if a guy asks me out and I must decline, I see it as fair game to ask him out. "

With all due respect, may I offer an improved tactic: If a guy asks you out, but you already have plans, offer an alternate date and time. If it turns out that the two of you can't get your schedules to mesh within the next week or so (it happens, I know how that goes), then offer to check in with him sometime during the week. That way, you leave the matter open. If you turn him down with an "I already have plans" explanation, and don't make an alternate proposal, he's going to figure that you aren't interested. Which means that when you call him later to ask him out, it's going to seem to him like he must have been at the bottom of your list.

Oh God, the texting, the texting, the texting. I don't get it either.

Look, I'm all about cheap dates - I don't like spending a zillion dollars on dinner either. A day at the museum, just noodling around by the riverfront, a cheap brunch, whatever. That's totally fine with me. But I really don't get those guys that ask someone out, pick the restaurant, and then throw a fit that they paid for it.

@Zoogie2 - that story belongs on abadcaseofthedates.com, for sure. That's horrible.

I absolutely loved the MO my husband used asking me for a first date.

As college freshmen, we had mutual friends and were acquaintances. We went to a coffee shop as a group and ended up spending 3 hours talking and got to know each other. That night, he split from the group to walk me home and asked me for a date on Saturday night (just happened to be Feb. 13th). I happily accepted. I didn't know where, just when he would pick me up.

Although we were BROKE, he had picked up extra valet shifts, eaten nothing but ramen all week, and saved up enough cash to take me to the BEST steakhouse in Minneapolis. Having no car, he bartered with a friend to borrow his sweet ride. He brought me a single rose when picking me up. At dinner, our conversation was lively, personal and fun.

After the fancy dinner, he took me to a car wash! That was part of his deal with his friend. It was hilarious. Then we went in the gas station, bought cheap espresso drinks and sat in the car talking. Ended with a lovely kiss, nothing more. Called the next day.

Can you tell why I am still madly in love after 10 years of marriage?

I'm not saying the guy in Zoogie's story is a prince, or that she should go out with him again, but her behavior sounds questionable too. Her main complaint is that she offered to pay half, and he took her up on it. The parking lot part of the story sounds worse, but based on the game playing that went along with the meal, I think there's a good chance she said something along the lines of "Oh, I'll be fine. You go ahead" and then he went on ahead.

This stuff drives me nuts. I've been with my wife for 20 years and we've had two actual fights in that whole time, both of which centered around the exact same issue. She said "Oh I'll be fine, you go ahead and do XYZ", and then I did XYZ, and she got put out. If going Dutch is a dealbreaker for you, then *stop offering to go Dutch*. Seriously.

"With all due respect, may I offer an improved tactic: If a guy asks you out, but you already have plans, offer an alternate date and time."

Excellent point. Thanks.

I was trying to prod the pretty riding instructor-- my top client, btw-- for a date, but she kept ignoring me.
Finally I told her, "S__, I've been shoeing your horses for TEN YEARS! Take me out to dinner!"
She did, and she paid.
We had more dates, where we split expenses.

Lots of guys have learned that "I have a boyfriend" is meaningless as a blowoff. They've figured out how to make it a challenge, since half the time, the "boyfriend" is either nonexistent, a piece of plastic, or lives somewhere across the country. He's a non-issue, if the pickup artist knows what he's doing.

My worst first date, in terms of bitter taste it left me with, was with the Mill Valley librarian.
She suggested we meet at her favorite sandwich cafe for lunch, where she proceeded to inform me that we had no future together.
She then retired to the Lady's room, to allow me to pay the tab.
She was going to stiff me over a fricking SANDWICH!
I swore to myself, that would never happen again.

lenona: ...and what the women have in common is that few will be willing to do half of the date invitations - i.e., half the paying. This is why many men complain that "whoever invites, pays" isn't a fair rule for men.

"whoever invites, pays" makes sense for friends, or in a business setting. But when it comes to dating (between men and women) "whoever invites, pays" effectively means "whoever has the vagina, doesn't pay."