Beyond stupid.

I'll contribute to the mother's legal defense fund just to see her get arrested, and battle it in court.

Even granting that traffic conditions, speed, awareness, etc., have changed since you and I were kids, what should this cop's behavior have been:

A) Stalk kid for two days, threaten mom?

B) Grab a donut and some coffee and park car on the route during the hour the girl rides to school and make traffic drive more safely with more awareness?

In California, when I was growing up, bicyclists had every much right to the road as cars. So threatening mom with child neglect seems a total "cop-out".

Everytime I read these news reports the more I am thinking is that the US(west in general) is turning into a country of pussies. In another generation the US/West will become the biggest country of cowards and wimps that would rival the French ok I joke at that.

The country will loose its drive and a purpose. Other countries will be able to take over, bother, heck surpass.

Yes I understand society wants to protect children but when is too much too much.

I look back at my childhood and shocked at what I did would now be considered too dangerous. And what I did was tame to other children.

When I was 11, a friend and I rode our bikes from Pasadena to Bolsa Chica State Beach and back.

Thirty-seven miles each way.

I guess I should be surprised my mom isn't still doing hard time.

I, too, rode my bike to and from Bond Elementary School every day, and I somehow lived to tell about it. (I had a bitchin' blue Schwinn StingRay, btw).

My current city government recently hired a "biking coordinator" with a six-figure salary to encourage people to bike more often. Downtown traffic has become a nightmare because of all the bicyclists weaving in and out of traffic lanes and ignoring all traffic signals.

So I guess the message is that nowadays kids are not supposed to ride their bikes and grownups are not supposed to drive their cars.

Next time you drive (or bike) by a school look at the empty bicycle parking, if they have any bike parking left. Most schools have eliminated bike parking areas in Los Angeles as no kids ride to school anymore. Blame the parents/authorities for eliminating anything kids do independent of the parents/authorities so when the kids are adults they can easily be controlled.

"Independent: Free from the influence, guidance, or control of others; self-reliant."

The horror of self-reliance.

The Revolution will not be bicycleized.

Hell on weekends my parents would barely see me at all. We'd ride our bikes a few miles away to the local park, or bounce from house to house, dozens of miles over the course of the day, I'd stop in have food and tell them I'd be back for dinner.

I find it abhorrent how confined children are these days.

Anybody remember, "Stay outside unless you are hungry or bleeding"? Thirsty wasn't an issue because there was always a house with a hose we could use.

"Everytime I read these news reports the more I am thinking is that the US(west in general) is turning into a country of pussies. In another generation the US/West will become the biggest country of cowards and wimps..."

My thoughts exactly!

I was given a speech about "weapons in the workplace" because I had visible a NON-serrated, Plastic Knife. I had this conversation not five feet from a ten pound paper cutter.

Idiocy and cowardice is taking over at an alarming rate.

Idiocy and cowardice is taking over at an alarming rate.

Well, all of the lawyers and career politicians have to have something to do!

Someone should start a non-profit to deal with these... I don't think the ACLU would handle this sort of thing, but something ACLU-like.

I was given a speech about "weapons in the workplace" because I had visible a NON-serrated, Plastic Knife. I had this conversation not five feet from a ten pound paper cutter. -- ValiantBlue at September 4, 2011 7:27 AM

I wonder what my work would do if I brought in my William Wallace sword? Its only about 4 foot tall.

I walked a half mile to kindergarden, and a mile for 1-6 grades (each way).

I didn't know my parents were abusing me.

I walked to school on my own from the time I was in third grade. It was one mile each way to middle school and two miles to high school.

Now my mom and siblings hesitiate to let their children/grandchildren wipe their own asses out of fear that some harm will come to them.

Times have changed.

I was given a speech about "weapons in the workplace" because I had visible a NON-serrated, Plastic Knife. I had this conversation not five feet from a ten pound paper cutter.

Where do you work? I need to make sure they never become my customer.

You see, I carry a 3" Kershaw (#1660, Ken Onion Leek) lockback pretty much all the time. Not that it's a weapon, it's a tool. I carry a knife because I am a man, and it's what men do. Wallet, keys, change, knife, phone.

Regarding weapons, I had an interesting experience just recently. There have been five attempted rapes and one rape in my neighborhood and nearby areas since March, with two happening four blocks from my apartment. I decided to get myself some pepper spray, but I found out you can't order pepper spray online in NY. I had to go to a pharmacy and fill out a form with all my identifying information, and I was limited to two. For pepper spray!

As my husband said: "New York City: protecting politicians and police officers over the general public since 1892."

I'm old enough now that the newer employees at my place of ork are young enough to have been fathered by me. They are the most self obsessed, entitled, rude little coddlesnots* you could possibly imagine. Ok, not all of them, but damn there are a lot of them.

Maybe that's what happens to people when you do everything for them.

*I just made that up

My dad would roust us and kick us out of the house around 11. "What are you, playboys?" After that, we'd bike to school.

> I carry a knife because I am a man, and
> it's what men do.

Is there an echo in here here here?

Monica, order it online send it to a familly member in a nother state, if they wont ship directly to NY and have the familly member forward it

I wouldn't expect someone from California to understand, Crid.

There's just a certain level of expectation in the blue-collar world that when a situation calls for a knife that a man ought to have one at the ready.

Because there's inevitably a box somewhere that needs to be opened or some part in some machine that needs to be wedged.

It reminds me of the time I thought I had a ride after track practice, but unfortunately did not. No other choice to walk that horrible eight miles home. Or wait around hours for my parents to get off work. What would authorities have said about me taking a ride from a distant acquaintance?

Do "men" out there "do" insurance? Should we expect a "blue-collar" to understand?

And I carry a knife too, you hypermasculine man's man, you. I remember when Tressider found out found out about it, it hurt her girly feelings, and she cried.

Valiant: "I was given a speech about "weapons in the workplace" because I had visible a NON-serrated, Plastic Knife. I had this conversation not five feet from a ten pound paper cutter."

The UK has a campaign now against knives. "Get a life! Bin that knife!" With a bunch of metal box drop off points for knives.

I think the problem started with the well intentioned laws (aren't they always?) to prevent underage children being left in the home unattended while the parents went on vacation.
It is a small step from child neglect being "leaving an 8 year old alone for days" to the slippery slope of letting a ten year old (which is still underage for the purpose of the neglect statutes) ride their bike alone down a public street for ten minutes.

Not saying it isn't insane, just letting you know how the nanny state got there, and where this is going.

"You see, I carry a 3" Kershaw (#1660, Ken Onion Leek) lockback pretty much all the time. "

If I have an early airline flight, and there's been a storm the night before, I have to put my chain saw in the trunk of the car before I leave. That's in case I start down the mountain and find a tree across the road. I always worry what would happen if I got to the airport, and they decided to search my car for some reason, and found the chain saw.

Good friggin' grief.

Here is the real story about the girl and her bike trips to school:

Chief Bailey said the officer did not tell the daughter she could not ride her bike to school but wanted to talk to Tryon about finding an alternate route because of safety concerns for the 10-year-old girl.

Why did the evil police officer have safety concerns?

While stopped behind a school bus at the three-way stop at the intersection of Cedar Avenue, Watauga Avenue and Southside Road, the officer noticed a girl on a bicycle coming around his cruiser on the left and past the school bus on the left toward oncoming traffic. A car was making a turn from Watauga onto Cedar and had to make an abrupt stop to keep from striking the child. By the time traffic was moving, the girl had already crossed the hill and the officer could not make contact with her. Other motorists were also pointing her out to the officer to make him aware.

The next day, the officer set up near the intersection of Florence Street and Cedar Avenue and he saw the same girl coming over the crest of the hill on Cedar Avenue in the roadway. Bailey noted that there is no sidewalk in this area for her to ride on. As the girl came over the hill on her bicycle, a car came up from behind. The officer said it had to swerve to keep from coming in contact with the girl on the bike.

Clearly, the officer shouldn't do anything until he has to peel the child off the grill of a Ford F-150.

In his report, the officer wrote that as he was talking to Tryon she became "defensive." The report also says that she told him that Child Protective Services had talked with her about the same issue last year.

Note to parents with "free range" children: don't tell police about your previous contacts with Child Protective Services unless the police ask. As illustrated by the following, such unnecessary disclosures can have bad consequences:

She explained that she did speak to CPS last year after her daughter had been removed from the bus.

(Sounds like a lovely child.)

She said her daughter had been biking to school and a complaint had been filed that she was coming to school in dirty or stained clothes. Tryon said when she talked to CPS about that, she asked about the bike riding. She said CPS inquired about the distance and the child's age and said it would not be a problem.

I know that many people have an urgent need to be right, but sometimes it's better to just nod your head and keep your trap shut. This was just such a time:

the official police report says that she told the police officer CPS had been out on the complaint of bike riding. Because she told the officer that CPS had been involved in the same complaint last year, Chief Bailey said that the officer told Tryon that he had to make a referral to them on this case. . . . Bailey explained it was standard procedure to make a referral to CPS when they have already been involved in a similar case. Because the mother told that to the officer and the officer witnessed two safety concerns he had to make the referral.

D'oh!!! That didn't work out like she expected.

So what do the evil police say now?

"Let me reiterate, no one has ever told this child she could not ride her bike," Bailey said. "No one has ever told this mother she could not ride her bike, as I understand it. The officer was going to make this a teaching point because he had witnessed the two near misses. This was a safety issue. His intent was to talk to her mom and discuss an alternate route for her to ride to school. . . ."

Totalitarianism is upon us.

http://www.starhq.com/news/html/news/articles/articles.asp?day=Thursday&article=nw-bikegirl.html

So what your saying Dale is this is the second and soon to be third time the government(thru various officals) has been sticking its nose into this familly on the same issue, of which the government already said there was no problem?

And your defence of the second and soon to be third intrusion is that they were already offically scolded once before

Some how that doesnt seem like much of a defense.

Also the girl should almost be hit by a car, its a good learning expereance, either she'll smarten up, or she'll die and we'll all have one less moron growing up to breed even more morons

Props to Dale for realkeeping, even as the sarcasm annoys

While stopped behind a school bus at the three-way stop at the intersection of Cedar Avenue, Watauga Avenue and Southside Road, the officer noticed a girl on a bicycle coming around his cruiser on the left and past the school bus on the left toward oncoming traffic. A car was making a turn from Watauga onto Cedar and had to make an abrupt stop to keep from striking the child.

a girl on a bicycle coming around his cruiser on the left and past the school bus on the left toward oncoming traffic.

55-8-175. Riding on roadways and bicycle paths — Penalty. —

(a) (1) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:

(A) When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

The next day, the officer set up near the intersection of Florence Street and Cedar Avenue and he saw the same girl coming over the crest of the hill on Cedar Avenue in the roadway. Bailey noted that there is no sidewalk in this area for her to ride on. As the girl came over the hill on her bicycle, a car came up from behind. The officer said it had to swerve to keep from coming in contact with the girl on the bike.

Bailey noted that there is no sidewalk in this area for her to ride on.

55-8-173.(c) No person shall play on a highway other than upon the sidewalk thereof, within a city or town, or in any part of a highway outside the limits of a city or town, or use thereon roller skates, coasters or any similar vehicle or toy or article on wheels or a runner, except in such areas as may be specially designated for that purpose by local authorities.

The officer said it had to swerve to keep from coming in contact with the girl on the bike.

55-8-175.(c)(2) The operator of a motor vehicle, when overtaking and passing a bicycle proceeding in the same direction on the roadway, shall leave a safe distance between the motor vehicle and the bicycle of not less than three feet (3') and shall maintain the clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle.

Thank you Dale for where you pointed out her violations of the law.

I do agree Mom probably should have kept her mouth shut.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tnhiker/lifeafter50onemansperspective/id102.html

I have not exactly been following this story so much as running across it, it seems to gave gone viral, but by my count this is the fourth version of the story to be given by the police department.

Was the kid riding too far into the street, so the occasional car sometimes had to go dangerously out of the way to pass her? The mother later rode with her and agrees she was too far out, presumably this has been corrected.

The school bus thing appeared out of nowhere. It seems astonishing that if the officer abserved it, it would not be in the report of the triggering incident - which report was published and makes no mention of a bus. Not sure about where this happened, but around here passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off passengers is against the law, so even if it actually happened the kid should at the least have been reminded that bicycles must also follow road-use law.

For those wailing that there should be sidewalks and the kid should ride on them, well, even if there were walks bicyclists are not, again in my area, supposed to use them.

Why was she not riding the school bus in the first place, as her siblings do? Because on the bus she took earlier (not the same one as her sibs) she was being badly bullied. It does seem ridiculous, but there really is not much schools can do about such problems.

I think the first police version is the real story. The officer had been flagged down by a otorist who complained about having to go far out of the driving lane on a dangerous curve because the kid was too far from the verge, the officer later saw her and felt she was indeed far from the verge and yes, there is one dangerous curve on that road, so he notified the mother and mentioned the possibility of using an alternate route. I did miss any mention of ticketing the car driver - once again in my area, one is not supposed to pass on curves or hills, and this apparently anonymous driver admitted to doing so - and the officer was trying to act properly for the kid. And yes, the mom apparently did tell the officer that CPS had alteady checked out the situation, so the officer was obliged to notify them - though that was only implied earlier and from the mother's account not the police report.

So, the mother was upset that the CPS might be back. At that point, unfortunate, I doubt the CPS would look into the bullying that precipitated this whole thing. But the waffling, backtracking, and possibly lies from the police department about school buses and all sorts of other things are what makes this worth watching.

Jim P if you posted the correct statues for the area then the girl did not break the law as she only pased on the left of the bus and the police cruiser which were parked on the sholder and therefore blocking the right hand side of the road.

And Dale? did you notice the weaseling of the police cheif statemnet? No one accused the police of saying the girl counldnt ride her bike, the y claim they were told she couldnt ride her bike TO SCHOOL. Note that the police chief never mentioned the specifics of the allegation, only bike riding in general

Also what sort of cop has time to notice a car illegally passing a school bus and almost striking a biker but cant manage to drive fast enough to catch up to a bike? Or write a ticket to the person illegally passing a stopped bus?

And he apparently witnessed someone driving too fast over a hill who almost struck her on a different day? and again no ticket to the erratic driver?

I drive for a living, I've seen it all, just the other day some dumbass kid managed to fuck up a skateboarding stunt for his freinds and flipped hisself out in to the road. Curvy roads on hills have low mile per hour signs speciffically so people dont come around them and over the sight horision too fast and hit whomever might be walking, biking, or broken down in the middle of the road on the other side.

Just finished reading the story Dale linked

Apparently the officer witnessed two different people driving illegally and decided to detain the person they almost hit rather than the people driving illegally

And his cheif is fine with the fact that the girl almost ran over is the one picked up and not the guy who almost hit a girl on a bike in a crosswalk next to a school bus stopped to pick up children

I suppose it really was a teachabale moment, but I dont think its the message they thought they were sending

Hmm, most men I know don't carry knives around them. Too much of a PITA if you have to go through security or something I guess. Also I guess they don't run into stuff needing to be fixed during aregular day... the handy types tend to have workshops and fix stuff there.

My mom OTOH accidentally tried to go through security with a machete and a ceremonial indian knife. They were gifts for my brother.

Seriously, though this is silly. A knife isn't mandatory for men. You carry a knife because you're handy. Which is great, and a fine trait to have. But it doesn't make you more "manly". It makes you handier.

Nic, this isn't something Brian would expect you to understand, OK?

It's something men do.

My mom OTOH accidentally tried to go through security with a machete and a ceremonial indian knife. They were gifts for my brother.

I got through airport security with a box cutter in my purse. Totally forgot it was there. Another time, they confiscated my scented hand lotion because it was in a 6-ounce bottle.

"Hmm, most men I know don't carry knives around them. Too much of a PITA if you have to go through security or something I guess. Also I guess they don't run into stuff needing to be fixed during aregular day... the handy types tend to have workshops and fix stuff there."

Yeah, for a lot of guys these days, it's too much trouble. I work on a military installation where we are subject to being searched at any time. You'd think that in a place where guys are walking around with automatic weapons, a 3-inch knife wouldn't raise any eyebrows, but you'd be wrong. If I have leftover steak for lunch, I have to cut it into bits before I leave the house because I can't be caught with a steak knife in my lunch bag.

But as far as the purpose of carrying a knife... it's a man's substitute for long fingernails. Think about all of the little things you use your fingernails for, e.g., peeling the backing off of a sticker. Without nails, it's a PITA, but a knife solves the problem.

Listen, I had another great comment here, but the software won't accept it, even with the links stripped out.

So you'll have to trust me about this: My insights are compelling, and can instantly rinse uncertainty and foolishness from the lives of all who read them. Other people, especially on this blog, are wrong about things. But I detect patterns of truth, both grand and novel, that can restore their perceptions and lead them to destinies of ever-greater dignity and fulfillment.

So, know that.

You carry a knife because you're handy. Which is great, and a fine trait to have. But it doesn't make you more "manly". It makes you handier.

I never said or implied that it made me "manly". The point is that carrying a knife ain't no thang. It isn't something that people actually ruminate over, it's just kind of expected that in any given room when the latest video game needs opening someone is going to have a blade on them.

> I never said or implied that it made me "manly".

I carry a knife because I am a man, and it's what men do.

Fellow readers, what was the most poignant part of that sentence for you?

For me, it was the failure to contract "I am" to "I'm"... That was the detail —the whispered-yet-thundering arrhythmia— that carried the comment to the podium of the Olympic pomposity.

(Some of you will probably cite the burdened stoicism of "what men do", as if a sacrifice were being made... But I remember that kind of rhetoric from television ads for financial services back in the 80's, so it wasn't as striking as the other thing.)

Shoulda been just Olympic, not the Olympic. BY gum, I'll make it up to you.

By the way, has anyone determined for sure whether or not the police were being dorks about the bicycle girl?

"You carry a knife because you're handy. Which is great, and a fine trait to have. But it doesn't make you more "manly"."

Of course it does - maybe only a little bit, but it does. That is virtually the definition of "manly". In fact Google dictionary even uses a knife-related example for their actual definition of "manly":

"manly (adjective) ... (of an activity) Befitting a man, esp. in a traditional sense - the manly art of knife-throwing"

I know many men who often carry knives, for myriad reasons, from utility to hunting to self-defense. It's a "manly" type of thing to do, I know very few women who would do that, and it's certainly not traditionally associated with women. Sorry if it offends those that think the notion of "manliness" should not exist, but it does, wishing away a concept doesn't make it disappear - there are activities that can clearly and unambiguously be associated (by any reasonable and honest person) traditionally with "manliness" - and doing "manly" stuff makes you more "manly". "Manly" men don't become that way by sitting around knitting and sewing, they do so by doing "manly" stuff like carrying knives. I often carry a utility knife, and really do sometimes need it, e.g. the other day I needed to cut some rope in order to do some ad-hoc motorbike repairs while on the road - repairs that actually got me home, should I rather have helplessly phoned someone, like a girl? (OK, now I'm pushing the sexist generalizations a bit - but, they remain 'mostly' true to this day, sorry feminists.) I sometimes use it when gardening as well, or doing odd repairs around the house. I don't consider myself a big knife-carrier or make it a 'thing' though, it's just something that seemed useful to do.

I don't consider myself a big knife-carrier or make it a 'thing' though, it's just something that seemed useful to do.

This.

I don't even think about it, it's just one of the things that gets put in pockets before I leave.

And I've had to remind myself to take it off and put it away before going to certain places where the assumption is that a man with a knife intends to stab someone.

Although getting frisked to go see Jon Anderson at the Webster was an amusing experience.

Carrying a pocket knife is useful. I sometimes do so. I actually decided that keeping a decent knife in each vehicle was more useful for my purposes. I keep one hanging on the turn indicator in all our vehicles. Works much better than tooth and nail for opening pesky plastic packages and slitting through packaging tape.

It is occasionally problematic when my son forgets he has a pocket knife and he wears the same pants from the weekend to school on Monday. He instantly turns from prepared Eagle Scout to suspected serial stabber and mutilator of school property. Even more inconsistent is that his Tech high school allows pocket knives as tools but his sending school forbids them as weapons. Seriously, some of the tools he is required for his diesel technician classes are a lot more potentially dangerous than a wittle pocket knife.

Hubby, son and I all carry Kershaws. Hubby also carries a Leatherman most of the time.

My husband carries a knife because it has a bottle opener on it...

But speaking of weapons, I'm the only one in my office who isn't packin'. (So, I feel pretty safe, provided my bosses don't decide to shoot ME.)

What is it about carrying a tool - which is all that a knife is - is objectionable? Must be the hint of self-reliance. Can't have that.

A 4" standard screwdriver is far more deadly, because nobody recognizes it as a weapon.

At Savannah River Site, you can't have a knife over 4" - unless it's a kitchen utensil.

Because a meat cleaver obviously works only on meat.

Not people.

Just to confirm, the laws cited are indeed the Tennessee Code Annotated.

(And on carrying knives, I don't, but that's just because I don't have the dexterity to use one safely. I have discovered quite a few ways to use a key as a tool, though.)

I constantly remind my upper middle class kids to have as little to do with the police as possible. Unless it's a violent crime or imminent risk to life or property it is in all of our interests to to have as little to do as possible with these bureaucrats with guns.

I tell them to remember: the police aren't you your side, they're on their side. Act accordingly.

Travel to Rome, tell me your shenanigans, and I tell what kind of person you are....;)

I have been in Rome very often, and everytime everything comes as a pleasant surprise...