I dated a guy once who rushed the mother meeting. He seemed more interested in me meeting his mom than in meeting my kids. But I was younger and dumber and met her. She continuously called me the wrong name at dinner, laughed at my choice of clothing (I was wearing slacks and a blouse) and then informed me all of her son's assets were in his name and not to get any ideas.

My date laughed uncomfortably throughout dinner as if she were making the funniest of jokes. The funniest joke was that I continued to date him until he dumped me. Mommy didn't want to share him on weekends.

I dated a woman once. She was pissed.

Crid: I dated a woman once. She was pissed.

Did you carbon date her?

A friend recently relayed that once, when she met up with a guy she'd "met" online, that he had his second date of the night meet him at the same place. He'd scheduled an hour for each of them.

"Did you carbon date her?"

I hope you didn't "freshness" date her.

> Did you carbon date her?

I always thought Carbon 14 would be a great name for an internet dating site catering to seniors.

The questionnaire would be nothing but organic chemistry.

ahw, I hear stories like that a lot. I've never done online dating but my friends who have all meet for coffee to check each other out which I find creepy. I've heard many where both sides have scheduled second and third meetings only to realize that their "date" did also. Sort of takes the romance out of it.

@Kristen... Yeah, you'd think they could at least meet the next one at the place half a block down. I've never online dated, either. Thank goodness.

I'm getting divorced nowdays after 27 years together.

My first date off Match.com went really well, until 20 minutes into the date when she started sobbing when we found we had mutual friends and she decided to tell me how her husband had screwed her for the last 15 years. My second date (with a different woman) was cancelled Friday afternoon, but she then asked me if I was free for the weekend. And did I own a truck? Or a moving van? She had to be out of her house by Monday.

PS- Great line Crid. I'm starting to adopt the "I would never date a woman who would go out with me" line of thought.

OH! All time favorite rudeness anecdote:

A woman friend of mine ended up in bed with a guy. After the lovemaking, he got up and cleaned himself up on her bedroom curtains.

I can't think of any instances of dating rudeness myself, but as far as I'm concerned, Eric wins. For now, anyway.

This is only tangentially related to dating, but one of my big pet peeves is when people go out to eat and insist on calculating everyone's exact share of the bill-like the table of 4 couples I waited on last week who spent over 30 minutes dividing $400 bill literally down to the penny (shares ranging from $85 to $115 btw, so it's not as though there was even a large discrepancy)

Now, I understand not wanting to subsidize someone else's filet mignon when you're eating grilled cheese, but when you're sharing drinks, desserts and appetizers already then I say you suck it up and just split the check equally. Yes, you might end up floating your dining companions' meal by 5 or 10 bucks, but if that's such a horrible possibility you should probably rethink going out to eat with that person, or eating at restaurants in general. The whole point of going out to eat is to have a relaxing evening with people whose company you enjoy, and an intense math session at the end detracts from the experience, and makes your waiter hate you.

Truthfully I can't remember, Amy. It was a wine filled dinner conversation about 20+ years ago. It may have been at the same dinner when a German woman friend told us how much she loved Brie because it tasted so much like cum. Mostly what I remember is how much we used to laugh back then.

Re: rude questions, I guess it would depend on the delivery and motive - as well as subject. I usually handle these by asking a question back like "why do you want to know?" thAt way they might get some perspectives on why or what they are asking. I guess that would be a good indicator if it was just nerves or if they are truly clueless about manners.

If they kept pressuring me for An answer there is always "I am not comfortable answering that question on a first date" or "I think I'd like to change the subject" or "what are your thoughts about eggplant? Fruit or vegetable?".

Critiquing my appearance? Probably ignore it. Hit delete or again, asking them "what's your point?". throw it back at them and make them articulate. Force them to be aware of the rudenick comment.

I got nothing on the third question. People put up their best pictures - everyone does it. I'd probably only say something if it wasn't them in the picture.

For the last question - I really don't have to do anything. But as far as new relationships go I would say fundemental values and wants ranks right up there. I would say that when there is too much conflict of a bad kind, disrespect, lack or integrity or honesty might make me verbalize my sentiments. "I don't think this is working for me". At the point I detect any red flags - I would say the sooner the better. Why waste someones time as well as yours if things aren't working.

Honesty is the best policy. :-)

I had a guy ask me out for dinner and a movie. When he picked me up, he told me he had already eaten, but we could stop at a restaurant if I wanted something. (My mother's boyfriend quipped, "Have you already seen the movie too?") I ate a salad at the restaurant while he watched.

It wasn't a money thing. He had just gotten hungry ahead of time and decided not to wait.

I had a great first date on a Friday night. My place was far from his, so he slept over on my couch. The next morning, he wanted to go have breakfast, which was fine. Then he wanted to go for a walk. Then he wanted to check out my book collection or something. Then it was, "What are we doing tonight?"

I was freaking out inwardly because I liked him, but we barely knew each other and I couldn't get rid of him. He ended up staying over again on Saturday night. Sunday morning I finally got up the courage to tell him I had work to do, and he needed to go home.

I met a guy for a date and he had NOTHING planned. We were both students, and I drove over to his college because he didn't have a car. I get there, expecting he'll hop in and we'll go grab some coffee or something. But no, he said "what do you want to do?" which I thought meant "what are you willing to pay for?" So, we wound up looking at bad student paintings and sculptures in the "arts building" and having the standard first date conversation. After about an hour, I made up an excuse and left, figuring that was the end of that.

Jackass called me at midnight a couple days later, telling me how much he loved me. Obviously, we should get married. He went on to say that I would need to meet his parents before we could officially get engaged. But before that, I had to dye my then-bright red and orange hair a "reasonable" color, like light brown or dark brown, remove all my piercings except one in each ear, and have my two tattoos (which can't be seen unless I show them intentionally) removed. I had to promise to quit smoking and never drink again. And then I needed to change my religion from Christian to Jewish, here's the rabbi's number to get started.

I told him he was nuts and to never, EVER call me again. I wound up having to have his number blocked, and was very grateful he didn't know where I lived. He was pretty scary.

I dated a guy who had a cat he use to talk to like a baby. "Ooooo the cute little nose, Ooooo the cute little belly, oooo the cute little knees". To add to the nightmare, he would do little pinches to the parts he was talking about like one would with a baby. His cat was drooling at this point. It was our third date I believe.

We started watching a movie. Moved in closer. I shoved the burrito in my mouth even further to make the possibility of a kiss an impossibility only to discover he was reaching towards my knee "oooo the cute little....".

Me with a mouth full of tortilla and half masticated carne asada: "I'm out! I'm out! I'm out" as I was fumbling my way through the apartment for my purse, keys and shoes.

He was forever after referred to by me as Mr. Pussy. And not in a good way.

To this day I am horrified this man has a law license.

Ooooo, what a cute little nightmare!

Not dating rudeness, per se, but the strangest rejection I ever got. In college, I was walking across the quad with a girl from one of my classes. I was interested in her and she seemed to be at least enjoying our conversation. So as we parted ways, I asked her out, suggesting we meet up for coffee later.

She gave me a disgusted look and said:

"That's really not necessary." And stormed off.

I might have been hurt if I hadn't been completely baffled.

One problem I had is I'll sign up at a site that reflects my interests (don't remember exactly which ones, maybe veggiedate.com or something like that, pagandate, salondotcomdate, something along those lines) but they would merge with other sites with different interests.

So like my profile would end up on jdate and I'm not Jewish. So I had to tell lots of guys I wasn't Jewish.

But the worst was when my profile ended up on some fratboy dating site. In my profile I said I wasn't into beer and SUVs, and that if those things were important to you we probably weren't a match. I got this guy ranting and raving about how dare I post such a profile on fratboydating.com or whatever it was called and I was an ugly bitch and not all that and I should go @#$!@#$ or whatever.

So I complained to admin and he got banned.

Shannon, I'm quite the opposite. I hate people who want to split evenly, because it's always the ones who ordered the filet mignon, appetizers, drinks, and desserts when everyone else just had a salad.

And maybe $30 doesn't seem like a big difference in cost to you, but it does to me. An $80 bill would really be pushing it for me, and to have it bumped up to $95 would piss me off immensely.

People who order more then everyone and ask to split evenly are douches.And no it does NOT all even out because its always the same people who do it.

I've learned to ask for seperate checks in the beginning of the evening when going out with certain parties.

I also rarely eat anywhere it's going to cost 80 per person.

I'm willing to split evenly if we shared an appetizer, both got a drink and dessert, and our entrees were within a couple bucks of each other but with a $30 discrepency? Um, no.

I always thought the wiping his dick on the curtains thing was an urban legend... isn't that a saying among fratboy types? "Do her in the ass, cum in her eye, wipe yourself on the curtains and steal something on the way out"?

I also feel like you know what you ordered and should know what it comes to before the check comes.

If I order a drink for $5, an entree for $12, and a dessert for $6, I know that adds up to $23, so figure a buck or two for tax, $25 and $5 tip, it comes to $30. If I share an appetizer say for $8, that adds another $4 or so. It's not that hard.

With respect to rude questions, my response would vary little just because I'm on a date.

The standard effective responses are: ask a question back, silence, or change the subject.

These can all be delivered with more or less charm to address possibilities ranging from the date who just makes lazy bad conversation to the date who is rudely jockeying for status over you.

Examples:
The mirror question..."What kind of person is YOUR type?"

the playful non sequitur..."It's hard for me to say because I don't speak english. How's your spanish?"

the bait and switch....."You know the guys who . You do. Good. I don't do that. Is that helpful?"

Edgy is okay. Defensiveness is not.

Its conceivable that my date's interest would survive this one:
"Maybe when I know you better I'll tell you."
or
"Baby...you gotta use charm if you want answers. Charm, babe, charm."
However, my own romantic interest would not.

Correction:

the bait and switch...."You know the guys who [long detailed explanation of a job]. Good. I don't do that. Is that helpful?"

> isn't that a saying among fratboy types?
> "Do her in the ass, cum in her eye, wipe
> yourself on the curtains and steal something
> on the way out"?

Dear GOD Dear woman, where did you go to school?

Not sleeping with me after I pay for dinner?

I can't recall any date I've had where the woman was remarkably rude. The "garden-variety" rudeness I usually experience is women talking about themselves for most of the date, without showing much interest in me. It seems like it's usually men who get a bad rap for doing this but men certainly have no patent on it; women can be just as bad. (There's an old joke I love, with the man in the position of the self-absorbed person. The guy is yakking about himself for thirty minutes nonstop and then finally pauses and says "Well, enough of me talking about myself...what about you? What do you think about me?")

If an Internet date looks nothing like his or her picture

I'm surely in the minority, probably a very small one, but I actually like meeting women on blind dates. Although disappointed more often than not, I like the suspense and, also, I've found that even when you see someone's photo ahead of time you can often be disappointed. My most memorable experience was four years ago. The woman and I had emailed back and forth a few times -- she was smart, a good writer, and seemed to have a good sense of humor -- and we had arranged to meet in front of the old Seattle Art Museum (now the Seattle Asian Art Museum) in a park in our Capitol Hill neighborhood. I didn't ask her anything about her looks, but she volunteered that she was a "pretty blonde" with "great legs." It was a gorgeous July evening. I arrived about ten minutes early and was watching a wedding party get photographed on the steps of the museum while looking around to see if I could spot my date walking my way. Nothing but couples until I noticed a very large older woman with gray hair and a baggy long dress tottering in my direction. She looked like she could have been my grandmother. My heart sank as my gut told me that was her and, sure enough, she walks up to me and says "Jim?" Definitely not blonde (or pretty) and I highly doubted she had "great legs" hidden underneath that baggy dress.

Part of me was pissed off at the way she misrepresented herself and I considered walking away right there but cooled down and decided to just go with it, so we ended up going for a walk around the park. She turned out to be an interesting woman -- a nurse who had traveled extensively -- and I enjoyed talking with her but was not physically attracted to her at all. I considered giving up blind dating after that, but kept going with it and then, just one month later, met a woman (on a blind date) I really fell for.

I've waited tables and used to bartend, and people wanting to split their bill never bothered me in the slightest. It's not like it's you having to do the math. I don't want to pay for what I haven't had, and I would never expect someone dining with me to toss in extra over their meal just for the pleasure of my company. And I am generally the one ordering the more expensive things, since eating out is rare for me.

*there are certain, few, old friends who we both know it will even out for, so we just split*

Separate checks isn't an issue. It takes maybe 5 more seconds of the waiter's time-unless the restaurant has some really arcane system I am not familiar with. And I haven't waited tables in a long time, I imagine technology has advanced that area, too. It's (or was) a few seconds quicker if the server was told upfront, which is why a lot fo them will ask a larger group right off if they want separate checks.

I had a gut try to hand-feed me popcorn at a movie on a first date. Ick. Maybe if he was Ryan Gosling-otherwise? No!

Amy, as far as getting separate checks goes, it depends on the restaurant's policy. If the restaurant does separate checks then that's probably the best way to go, and that shouldn't unduly inconvenience the server as long as you let her/him know in advance and make it clear who's paying for what. (Now 12 or 15 separate checks is another story--that's a pain in the ass!)

My restaurant doesn't do separate checks but we will take separate methods of payment and the customer will tell us the amount they want charged to each card. However, the more cards they give the longer it takes, more so when it's not an equal split, and more so when the amounts are things like $47.13, $29.16 instead of even increments. If just one table does this, it's not such a big deal, but if every table did then it creates a backlog at the cash register and you'd end up with all the servers standing around waiting to run credit cards rather than serving their tables. So it can be rude in the sense that it creates a negative externality for your fellow diners.

As far as my earlier point,I should clarify, I don't think it's rude to figure out who owes what when it's obvious who ate what, especially when there's a big discrepancy such as in Amy's example where one couple was drinking and ordering appetizers and the other was not. In that case, splitting the bill evenly would have resulted in a 66% cost increase for the copy editor and his wife ($50 vs $30), so it would have been unfair as well as unnecessary (since it was clear who ordered what).

What I'm talking about is when you're sitting there going, "Okay, Bob owes 1/5 of the first bottle of wine, 1/3 of the second bottle of wine, 1/4 of the appetizer..." plus trying to figure out everyone's percentage of food tax, liquor tax, and tip on top of that. The bigger the group, the more complicated the math gets, the longer it takes, and it just seems unnecessary complicated and mercenary, especially when everyone's bill is roughly in the same ballpark anyway. Such as in the situation I described, where splitting the bill 4 ways would have resulted in $100 per couple, which is only a 17% increase for the $85 couple ($100 vs $85)--was that really worth the 40 minutes of scrutiny and calculations?

Moreover, taking an extra 20, 30, 40 minutes to figure out the bill means a loss in income for your waiter, because you're taking up their table, and a longer wait for the next guest, especially if there's limited seating options for big parties. A good rule of thumb is that if you can't figure out everyone's share with a few minutes of moderate mental arithmetic, it's probably not worth the effort. Split the check, chalk it up to the cost of a nice evening out, and don't go out to eat with "friends" who would take advantage of this policy.

Shannon, I'm quite the opposite. I hate people who want to split evenly, because it's always the ones who ordered the filet mignon, appetizers, drinks, and desserts when everyone else just had a salad.

Nicole, that's usually been my experience too.

as I write in the Eating, Drinking, Partying chapter, it's incumbent upon the people who ate the expensive stuff to be the ones to say, "No, no, you had only a few items...let's figure out what you ordered."

I agree, Amy.

the table of 4 couples I waited on last week who spent over 30 minutes dividing $400 bill literally down to the penny . . . an intense math session at the end detracts from the experience, and makes your waiter hate you.

Shannon, it may very well make the waiter hate them and it may very well detract from the experience of the people who eat the more expensive stuff, but I highly doubt it detracts from the experience of the people who have the less expensive stuff. I'm not sure exactly why people dividing up the bill makes you "hate" them but if it's because it took 30 minutes, wasn't there something you could have offered to do to expedite matters? Or do you just feel that all parties should split bills equally so you sneer at any party that doesn't?

NicoleK - I am totally with you on folks should know what they ordered and how much it should be. The biggest problem I see is that I am the one on a tight budget, give a good tip, only to see the "big spenders" use my tip to subsidize their meals if the tip wasn't included in the check.

>>A woman friend of mine ended up in bed with a guy. After the lovemaking, he got up and cleaned himself up on her bedroom curtains

Yeah, that's a classic. How do you make your wife scream for an hour after sex? Wipe your dick on the curtains.

Rude date? Answered her cell phone after 10 minutes and made an excuse to leave. At least she paid for the coffee. Later found out she had already decided on someone else.

Misrepresented photo: She was fatter and not as cute as her picture. Deal breaker was she was rude to the wait staff when the restaurant was packed. Last time I ever sign up for dinner and a movie on the first date.

Splitting checks - I try never to split a check because I think it is crass. If I ask you out for dinner, then I will pay. If I ask 10 people out for dinner then I will pay. If you ask me out to dinner then I will assume that you are going to pay, unless you tell me different. Last time I was forced to split a check I was in college.

NicholeK- it may have been made up, but I remember it being told to me. It was the first time I heard it.

Old link.

One that really comes to mind was just a few weeks ago.

I had gone to this one pubby restaurant type place a few times and had the same waitress. She was flirty and I asked her out - more of a joke - but she accepted. We met at this other place a few days later. She keeps getting txt messages and finally execused herself...her kid was txt'ing her. I could see her pacing back and forth talking on the phone and rather upset...including starting back and then turning back. Finally comes back, we chat for about 3 minutes when it goes off again...she says she will be right back and to order a Corona. I do. She comes back and gives me hug...leans into my ear...gives it a bit of tongue and says "I have to go, boyfriend is home ... he got off work earlier. Come by the restaurant on Thursday about quitting time and we can play." I said, "Do you want your beer?" "NO! If she drove home with beer on her breath her boyfriend would kill her! He's a cop!"

I haven't gone back to either place.

My "should have gotten up and RAN from the room screaming moment"

Spent the entire evening bashing the ex and saying how "the Feds" and "the DEA" were watching her and how he was helping him. I would have left, but it was hard to believe that much crazy could exist in one person and I was dying to see what else he'd come up with.

I went out with a customer who had a lot in common-- she worked for a museum that I love.
She couldn't shut up about her horrible ex.

I've had a couple of dates that were interrupted at the thirty minute point when they received calls on their cell phones.
The second time, I figured out they were fake emergency setups so they could bail out if necessary.
To both their credit, we continued with our evenings.
I still think it's a shady lack of confidence-- one woman had been a client of mine for ten years, so it's not like she had anything to suspect.
I saw a post by a man who went through this-- his date got her call and became loud and dramatic. As she left, he admitted to the other diners "I guess my thirty minutes are up!" He wasn't fooled.
People should be more creative at least.

I despise people who take advantage of you when life is literally kicking the living shit out of you.
In '98, I file for divorce from my 2nd husband in the early summer. I spent most of the rest of the year getting things straight, and hanging with friends, spending time with my kids, the usual. A guy I knew kept playing match-maker and trying to fix me up with these absolute loser friends of his. Truly bottom of the barrel, unemployed, ugly, drunken and/or drug addled gits. Oh, yeah, I was also battling breast cancer at this point.
This wasn't technically a date, but this guy had an annoying habit of trying to bait my kids into doing or saying things that could technically get them in trouble.This very special snowflake managed to sweet talk his way to friend status.(my friends guilting me over being "shallow" helped him :p ) so I'm giving him a ride somewhere in my truck, and I have my 5 yr old daughter along for the ride. Now, this is the guy who told me in all seriousness that he had to smoke pot because he was such a super genious it was the only way that he could come down to our level and be understood. yeah. So Mr Sooper Jeanious starts trying to get No2 daughter to get confused, and say the wrong thing so he can belittle her for it.
He starts with "There are special words you can't say in the car, you know, like Stupid. You can't say Stupid in the car!"
Then he turns to No2 daughter and asks her "So, what is it you can't say in the car?"
My brilliant, wonderful, 5yr old baby girl looks him straight in the eye and says "You can't say Asshole in the car.".
I laughed so hard I nearly wrecked my truck!

I had a guy show up to pick me up for a first date. He was wearing clothes that were wrinkled, and his hair was a mess (apparently he had just woken up...in a dumpster). But hey, I was all dressed up, so lets go, right? He wants to take me to this micro-brewery/restaurant. I tell him that I don't like micro-brewed beer. He tells me "Don't worry, you'll like this stuff". I tell him "No really, I've been to that place before, didn't like any of it, and they get really pissy if you order a Miller Lite". So he takes me there anyway. At this point, he's driving, so I don't have much to say about it.

We get to the restaurant, the beer is terrible and the food is only tolerable. He asked what I liked to do (finally!). I told him that I love to shoot pool. We leave the restaurant, go to a bar, I order a beer (my second of the evening). He then looks at me, "Are you really drinking another beer? Don't you know its a Wednesday night?!" I set the beer down, told him he was right, and I wanted to go home. No need to walk me to the door. First time I've been home from a date by 8:30. It was the most ridiculous date of my life. I've learned that when going on a first date, better to meet somewhere so you can leave whenever you want!

Back in college I went on a semi-blind date with a girl I met over the computer network (pre-internet). We met in Manhattan and just kinda looked for a likely place for lunch. We sat down, ordered sodas, and started looking thru the menu. She said "I hope you're not planning on ordering meat, because I'm a vegetarian and I don't like the smell of meat." Mind you, this is the first I'm hearing that she's a vegetarian. I said "Let's just forget it", I paid for our sodas, and we left.

Sorry, if you start telling me what I can and can't do on our very first date, I'm not interested. If meat is that big an issue, I think it needs to be discussed before you agree to go out with me.

> Back in college I went on a semi-blind date

The sky was gold, it was rose.

I remembered one more that's probably more generic. I went out with this guy who I knew ahead of time was a 2nd Amendment Rights activist. What I didn't realize was that talking and thinking about guns comprised most of his waking hours.

At dinner he started grilling me on my beliefs about guns, but beyond a general sense that people should have the right to own them for self-defense, I didn't have any well-molded convictions back then. So to some of his questions I said I wasn't sure, or that I hadn't really thought about it, which (ha ha) triggered him.

He started lecturing me on how it was irresponsible that I hadn't given these things more thought, he'd rather fight on his feet than die on his knees, basically every pro-gun rant that's now a meme. At the end of the date he got sheepish and apologized, but I was shocked and had already decided I wasn't going to go out again with someone who yelled at me.

(Later I learned that he had been badly bullied and had his face broken as a teenager, which probably led him to have an obsession with self-defense and mistrust of others.)

I didn't even necessarily disagree with him; I just wasn't enjoying the conversation, which felt like an interrogation.

He's 40 now and despite being very handsome, he is dateless.

I think the rudest thing to talk about on a first date is about the ex. Doesnt matter if its the ex wife or girlfrien.. Nada!!!

When someone just sits there and they dont have to be even complaining, but just keep talking about them. It tells the other person, perhaps your not ready to move forward. No one these days wants to waste time sorting through another persons issues. Especially on the first date!!

What ever happend to just having fun, and getting to know another person..

Never talk about the ex or how badly members of the opposite sex have treated you.

•What to do or say when somebody asks you rude questions on a date.

She starts out with the all-men-are-scum assumption and asks, "you think you're going to screw me tonight, right?"
I said, "not until the check arrives."
It kinda when downhill from there but the waiter laughed.

•If somebody on a dating site messages you to critique your appearance, etc.
"Then we have something in common and we're gonna be perfect, toots."

•If an Internet date looks nothing like his or her picture.
Politely ignore it, but think to myself, "strike one."

•At what point in dating do you have to verbally tell them that you don't want to see them again?
Generally they e-mail me as soon as they get home. "You have too much dark energy and that will interfere with my homeopathic healing program," or "decided to date the other guy i spent most of the evening talking about."
I've never had the problem of having to tell a woman I don't want to see her again. Come to think of it, I hain't seen any woman for two dates since college. This is not working out so well, innit?

Oh, here's another one. I went on a date thru a personal ad once who spent the entire time telling me about how badly men had treated her and what she did to get back at them. She slashed tires, she put m-80's under windshield wipers to blow out the windshield, during a thunderstorm, sugar in the gas tank, etc. I was glad she didn't know what my car looked like.

When I was 19 and in college, I was asked out on an essentially blind date while waiting for a class to start (after 5 minutes of the guy awkwardly staring at me). I was flattered and agreed. Turns out he was almost 10 years older than I was (which is a big deal when you're still a teenager), wasn't actually a student at the college, and could barely string a coherent sentence together. He picked a seafood place for the date and then made me order the cheapest entree on the menu. While I was formulating a graceful way to leave, he took the crazy to a whole new level by informing me that if I would marry him, he'd pay for the rest of my education.

Luckily I'd taken the precaution of driving myself to the restaurant and he didn't know my last name or where I lived, but for a solid month he left daily messages on my phone despite being told straight up that dating him wasn't ever happening.

Regarding the preceding entry, and many others theretofore:

Dayum.

A few tips:

If you aren't 100% sure that your date likes the idea of going Dutch on the first date, don't suggest it. If necessary, do something that's free.

If he/she does the inviting/paying for both of you, do the same on the second date.

Do not suggest going Dutch unless you KNOW the other person is going to enjoy the event in question (or doesn't mind paying $20 or more at a restaurant). Poor people often do not seem to understand this.

And, of course, one does not have to put up with rudeness, so anyone who refuses to reciprocate the favor of inviting/paying SHOULD get dumped.

For men/boys:

It's OK to expect a girl to pay for date 2 if he paid for date 1. It is OK to stop seeing her if she refuses to do this. It is not OK to expect sex as payment. Of course, it's also OK to go on dates that don't include spending money until you have a better understanding of what your date's money policies are.

My favorite online dating messages (no, there were no dates with these guys):

Initial email contact: "I don't want to be mean but how are you in bed?"

*****

Another first email message: "I don't have much time to email so give me your number so I can text you."

Out of pure curiosity, I clicked on his profile and his HEADLINE was "NO BLONDES OR CAUCASIANS!!!!!"

So I messaged him back and politely said he must not have had time to read my profile either because it clearly states I'm Caucasian.

He said I could pass so it was OK.

Some people are good at hiding what they want out of life or first date. Some people are really suck at it and pay real high price for it. Knock out performance by Jane Adams and Jackie Earle Haley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eafHbI03Aws

Some people are good at hiding what they want out of life or first date. Some people are really suck at it and pay real high price for it. Knock out performance by Jane Adams and Jackie Earle Haley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eafHbI03Aws

Oh my, I have a veritable treasure trove of bad date stories for you, Amy. I don't know what the legal ramifications of using stories off the Internet is, but if it's okay or if you just need ideas, check out the blog A Bad Case of the Dates

Some of the stories on there are hilarious, but it's absolutely flabbergasting to see how rude and crazy some people are.

I was only an observer on this horrible online date scenario. My 19-year-old son had just moved back home and he was having a Facebook relationship with a woman in Saskatchewan (we're in Texas.) He spent most of his days on Facebook and nearly half his should-be-asleep time at night on the cellphone (this made it difficult to get up for work). After watching this, and looking at his site to see that she really was a beauty AND a rodeo competitor as he is, things got really exciting when she announced she'd be flying into Dallas in a few weeks.

It's not easy, wanting my son to have a positive love experience but not trusting that this is the best way to go about it. Meanwhile the energy got increasingly intense waiting for the big arrival.

The day came and... went. Her flight time passed. No phone call. Nothing on Facebook. About sundown, my husband suggested he call the local hotel where she'd told him she'd reserved a room in HIS name. Nope.

That pretty much did it for my son, and he spent the next several hours in research mode. Found the young woman in the Texas Panhandle whose photos were used; found another b.guy to whom the same thing had happened (only it was her "sister" with a different first name). By then her Facebook page had been scrubbed.

He was over it the next day. His rodeo buddies still give him crap about it and probably always will. All the local buckle bunnies, however, are just thrilled. His stepdad and I are just glad it wasn't any worse. We don't talk about it much; the relief is still holding a few weeks later.

I've met a number of rude women, but the most amazing one had to be Miss Television. We're in San Francisco at a great restaurant, it's Saturday night, we're halfway through the meal and the wine, and she stops, looks at me and says "THIS ISN'T A DATE".

Um, okay. Coulda fooled me.

Coda:

So two months later I turn on the TV and there she is, being touted as The Hip Young Chick With All The Answers About This New Thing Called The Internet. Major network. Huge new segment. From unknown to TV star in one appearance! Major fail. Flubbed everything. Wrong about the tech, had no presence, couldn't banter, on and on. I think they had her on two or three times and canned her. Never saw her again.

Ask me, please, if I didn't experience a little schadenfreude.

Ask me!

(Didja?)

Ask me, please, if I didn't experience a little schadenfreude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q6AeOTSiDM

I've written here about how, at one time, I was the King of Being Stood Up. Guys and gals, if someone you aren't interested in asks you for a date, it is not OK to accept and then not show up. It is not OK to accept, figuring that you'll show up if you don't get a better offer in the meantime. If someone you aren't interested in asks you for a date, say no. Be polite, but do them a favor and say no. Then maybe they can go find someone else who is actually interested in them.

Was asked out by a fellow I'd known, flirted with, and thought was quite cute for years. We had mutual friends and saw each other frequently at parties and gatherings (still do). For our second date he took me to a very nice restaurant. We ordered our dinner and then he said brightly, "So! You're 31. You're divorced. You live alone, and you have cats. Why does that scare me?" I guess this is that jockeying for status that was mentioned earlier. At the time I thought he might somehow be making a joke, so I laughed it off. I didn't realize until later that he was deliberately insulting me.

Later, on the phone--yes, I am an idiot and I talked to him again after that night--he volunteered that he never went down on any woman over the age of 20. At that time, he was around 35. He has been married to a woman his age for 8 or 9 years now. Every time I see them I wonder if he breaks his rule for her, or if she just married him anyway. I don't envy her.

Oh, and by the way, it is not OK to accept a date with someone for the sole purpose of trying to recruit them into whatever set of political views you hold. I've had "dates" that consisted of recruiting pitches for both the John Birch Society and the Soviet Youth.

To quote Crid "Dayum!"

It's been a damn long time since I've been on a date, but the worst one that comes to mind was when I was in high school, guy I liked asked me to the Freshmen Welcome Dance. Me and 3 other freshman girls. Ack. Wasn't pretty. He got slapped twice, and I just stood there with a look of half shock/half pity on my face, until my brother grabbed my arm to take me outside to get stoned. Had a great laugh about it after that!

I stuck with her even though she wouldn't shut up about her crappy ex, mostly because she was cute and I was horny.
Once she got over the crappy ex, she STILL wouldn't STFU. Her mouth goes nonstop!
Amazingly, we were together for years, and sometimes she comes to visit. She STILL cannot STFU, and I can't wait to get her out of the house.

Dates are something you do with people you are already sleeping with and like. That pretty much avoids the whole "horrible date" problem.

Find a hobby that is social and has lots of single girls/gals. Be excellent at your hobby. Throw house parties. Attend house parties.

If you haven't gotten laid by now then formal dates aren't going to help your problem.

and she decided to tell me how her husband had screwed her for the last 15 years.

So was that supposed to be 'screwed AROUND ON her'? Or did she give actual descriptions of the postions they used?

And Gog, after she anncunced it wasnt a date di you insist on spliting the check?

The rudest thing that way to many women do is that after you set up a date, time, place, etc., the say (or write), "Call me before to confirm."

What are they really saying? "The date isn't very important, so I might forget if you don't remind me." or "The date sounds good for now, but if something better comes up, I will probably cancel at the last minute. Confirm to see if I am still interested as we get closer to the actual date."

When women do that, I always reply, "I will be there, let me know if you won't be."

One woman I met gave me her number and agreed to meet a couple of days latter. She pulled the "call me to confirm." Fifteen minutes before we were to meet, I got a call from her. I let it go to voicemail. She had an extremely lame excuse for bailing 15 minutes before the date. I never called her back. I found out later from a mutual friend that she had a boyfriend of seven years which she never bothered to tell me about when she gave me her number and agreed to the date.

Fortunately, women like her are the exception, not the rule.

Robert

I haven't dated in years -- so I'm just throwing this out there -- I was in love with a lady for 13 years until she passed. I commonly mention her as part of my past, and her stories. I don't think I'm obsessive about it.

The best way to put it is she is part of my personality DNA, but I don't ever tell any lady they have to match or compete with her.

I look at each lady as my current life. They have to accept that I have a past.

Am I thinking the wrong way?

@Robert Glover: Personally, I've used the "call to confirm." It wasn't because I was looking for an out, I was making sure that the guy was still interested in seeing things through. I hadn't ever thought about it from a male perspective and that they were possibly thinking I was looking for an out.

As far as the original topic. Worst date was the octopus! We had met for coffee dessert and hit it off pretty well. The guy called the next day and asked me out for dinner the following week. We met at the restaurant (I was coming directly from a meeting), sat down at our table and I had to fight him off...hands up my skirt, down my blouse, he was everywhere. After about 20 minutes of his nonsense I got up and left. I received an email from him the following morning - he thought I was fantastic, yada, yada, but he didn't think things were going to work out between us. I'm no prude and I love a good make out/touchy feely/heaving petting...but it has it's time and place. A busy restaurant with families was NOT the place!

The rudest thing that way to many women do is that after you set up a date, time, place, etc., the say (or write), "Call me before to confirm."

No.

Say that to me, and you will never hear from me again.

Remember dudes, no matter how hot she is, there's some guy out there somewhere what's tired of her shit.

"And Gog, after she anncunced it wasnt a date di you insist on spliting the check?"

No way. I'd asked for the date and I wasn't going to let her pretend it wasn't a date. I wanted her to realize she'd dropped something nasty into the punch bowl and maybe, just maybe, her tiny grinch heart would grow two sizes that night.

Instead of heart growth, what happened was - later that week I told a really cool woman I worked with about it. She was duly horrified, and immediately set up a Little Black Dress party for a gaggle of her hot, interesting artiste girlfriends. Then she invited me. I had a great time and got five new phone numbers and dates with each of them (and damn, if you've never walked into a room full of hot women in LBDs only to get looked over like you're the last sausage in Berlin and they're a pack of starving terriers, you haven't lived).

My roommates (this was post-divorce) were stunned at the river of females suddenly in my life. My ex-wife even showed up one night for a last go-round. I don't think my feet actually touched solid earth for about three months.

Good times. Good times!

"What I haven't written yet, and what I need to know from a waitress, is how big a pain in the ass is or isn't it if a table of four couples get four checks. "

These days it depends a lot on the point-of-sale system that the restaurant has. Some systems make this very easy; some don't.

I met a girl who was working in a mall and asked her out. She seemed reluctant. I suggested we meet at a club and she agreed. I got there and looked around for her. She had brought a date. She brought a date on a date.

The first time I asked a girl out was in 8th grade. She just never showed up. When I saw her in school the next Monday she said, "You didn't think I was serious did you?"

I asked a girl out in college. When I arrived at her apartment, she said, "Is this supposed to be a date?" When I confirmed it, she said, "Oh no. Sorry, I misunderstood." I walked home.

I got a million of 'em.

Guy I dated in college preferred to go to his grandma's for dinner when it was his turn to treat. I would pay for a restaurant. When i pointed out this trend, he said, "Why should I pay when Gran will cook?"

Sigh. No, it didn't last....

"The rudest thing that way to many women do is that after you set up a date, time, place, etc., the say (or write), "Call me before to confirm." "

I don't think most women say this because they're looking for an out if something better comes up, but rather because they want to make sure that you're both on the same page and that YOU don't forget about the date. I feel nervous showing up for anything--whether that's a date, plans with a friend, even a professional appointment--unless I've been in contact with them within a day, because I'm afraid they'll forget or that plans will have changed. I wouldn't phrase it as "call to confirm" though, more like "Sounds good; let's touch base the day of."

I don't think most women say this because they're looking for an out if something better comes up, but rather because they want to make sure that you're both on the same page and that YOU don't forget about the date. I feel nervous showing up for anything--whether that's a date, plans with a friend, even a professional appointment--unless I've been in contact with them within a day, because I'm afraid they'll forget or that plans will have changed. I wouldn't phrase it as "call to confirm" though, more like "Sounds good; let's touch base the day of."

Posted by: Shannon at August 4, 2012 6:29 AM
__________________________

Yes, well, even if you make it clear you're only making sure that neither of you have forgotten, it can still sound just a little bit insulting. ("I don't think you'll necessarily remember; chances are I won't either.") I doubt that sort of scatterbrained attitude was acceptable in the 20th century.

Then again, maybe you can say something like: "Let's call each other to make sure we won't have to cancel because some horrible emergency has popped up."

From Nov. 1990:

Dear Miss Manners-One of my closest friends assured me on the morning of my Halloween party that she and her husband would be there. Not only did she not attend but she did not call me beforehand to say she could not make it; nor has she called me since to apologize for not coming or at least to explain why they chose not to attend.

Am I supposed to call her and ask what happened, or am I to wait until she contacts me? I do not know what to say, and I am somewhat angry and more than somewhat hurt at her lack of communication.

She is very etiquette-oriented and would raise a royal fuss if I did this to her.

Gentle Reader-What is your friend`s idea of etiquette-``You have to treat me with consideration, but I am exempt from inconvenient rules``?

Miss Manners does not wish her any ill but feels obliged to point out that only tragedy would save her reputation for being polite. If she calls eventually to say, ``I feel dreadful about having missed your party, but my uncle-in-law had a heart attack that very afternoon, and we rushed off to the airport to get to him as quickly as possible,`` Miss Manners will allow her to continue to consider herself ``etiquette-oriented.``

You might want to speed or suggest this solution by calling her and saying: ``I`ve been frantic with worry about you. What happened? I expected you and had no word at all-so I had to assume the worst. I know you wouldn`t have disappeared like that without an explanation unless something dreadful had happened.``

Then let her try to say, ``No, I just didn`t feel like attending your silly party.``

I hate "calls to confirm", too. I assume the person is going to blow me off if we haven't made concrete plans before the day of. Mainly because they usually do.

Also, I don't want to waste my day sitting around wondering if you're going to call or not. I might have errands to run, other people to see, etc. I don't want to be like, "Well I can't go run out and do X, because it will take Y amount of time and so-and-so said they maybe wanted to do lunch... should I eat now or not?" I frickin HATE it.

Give me a time, and a place, and I will be there. Not "Let's touch base on the day of". On the day of I'll have made other plans.

People are flaky, especially with strangers.

If you want to get people to treat you with sensitivity, courtesy and reliability....have good sex with them. Chicken, meet egg.

There is a word for a person who invests any real money, time or commitment on a total stranger just because they made some mouth noises....SUCKER.

If you want to reduce the odds of a no-show, then make sure you were awesome in your initial interaction. Were you awesome? Evidently not.

You want a metric? Fine. If you haven't kissed her yet then don't bother asking for a number.

You game sucks? Substitute quantity for quality. Here's an example:

I was bored at a party. The last thing I wanted to do was CHARM anyone though. So I called out BODY SHOTS!!! and grabbed three random girls. First one was meh. I yell NEXT! Second one was also meh. NEXT! The third one though ignored the lime in my mouth and went for my tonsils. So I spent my time chatting her up.

The key to that working is being matter of fact and unapologetic about "ur bodyshot is teh fail! NEXT!"

Some girl is into you, or not...whatever. Vastly more important is the fact I showed everyone I was fun and awesome and i had balls.

This slipped my mind but I have some more things that I don't think have been mentioned before (but I didn't read closely).

I have had two different women invite me over for a "home cooked meal" and the meal has been grocery store take out and heat up. One we got in a fight -- primarily over something else - and I actually looked up what it costs - $20 and she probably had 2 more meals left. Actually I have never had a real home cooked meal other than done by someone I am related to.

I have lots of last minute cancellations - especially with single Moms - one of the reasons I now refuse to date them.

On lady at the end announced that the date and really turned for the worse (it had) but if I had $200 it could still have a happy ending.

I have had 2 girls ask for references...well asked to talk to previous girlfriends of mine.

Oh yeah, one girl invited me out on a date (this was like our 8th date) -- it was a dinner show part of a jazz festival. She paid for the tickets but expected me to pay for dinner because she wasn't planning on eating - minimum fee of $20/person so I ordered some nibbles.