When I was growing up, my mother was all about "stranger danger" and the other safety issues. You see, one of our neighbors had told my mother there was a convicted child molester in the area, but refused to identify him or her on the grounds that she didn't want to "start trouble."

Tell me, if you were operating with the same information she had, how would you have acted differently?

Thank you for posting this! "Stranger Danger" is one of those feelgood remedies which has great emotional appeal but as we see, does more harm than good. It falsely reassures parents that "strangers" are the problem, when it's far more likely to be someone they know, and yes, it leaves kids unequipped to use their instincts when interacting with the world.

Tell me, if you were operating with the same information she had, how would you have acted differently?

I would have told the person to name names or to shut up, as your neighbor had essentially slandered the entire neighborhood.

Including your mom and dad...

Now, here's a something from the Law of Unintended Consequences. As a single man, if I come across a lost child, I'm going to go in the opposite direction. I'm not going to risk legal entanglements and possibly imprisonment for being a good Samaritan.

Just not worth it. And don't say it can't happen. Search this blog's archives for just such happenings.

I have never told my son to never talk to strangers, but he knows this phrase anyway. I DO tell him that you never go anywhere with a stranger and then go over the (short)list of which people it is okay to go somewhere with - all family members. I think my inlaws have instilled the stranger danger and I try to undo it by talking about how sometimes we need to talk to strangers, the cashier in the store, kids he meets at school, etc. If we never talked to a stranger, we would never make new friends.
Protecting the gift is a great book and a major theme is trusting your intuition.

I'd honestly just call the cops if I ran into a lost kid on the street. But if I were in a store, I'd ask them to come up to customer services with me so we can page their parent, or I'd find the nearest employee and hand the kid off to them.

Since Denver is going through this very nightmare this moment, with the worst possible ending... and the little town of Cody Wyo. just went through it, with a better outcome, I dunno.

there is no good answer. The Cody one, the perp used the "I lost my puppy..."
http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=293941

Time was when people actually knew each other in the community, and ALSO that someone was home during the day... so there were people around and strangers were known and contacted. In my little apartment building there are several retirees... and that puts off people ALOT. Scared the hell out of a guy looking in windows once "you looking for someone?" Guy left as if I had threatened violence... he was definitely casing the place.

I have had numerous kids come to me for help, and I help, but I also engage the first female I can find to help me. I don't pawn off the kid to them, I just want them to assist so there's no questions.

The stranger danger thing doesn't work, but we have to try to make something else work. You can't just run away from something, you are running towards something else, so you gotta know what to do.

Maybe doing a little training with the kid, not just telling them would help.

De Becker instead strongly encourages parents to instruct their children to approach strangers in controlled situations. I have followed his advice and regularly requested, when my kids were little, that they approach strangers to find out the time, or to learn when a park closes, or where the nearest ice cream shop is.

I had not heard this advice, per se, but I did know that "stranger danger" is bull. I like the examples, though, and I already do this somewhat with my son. He's only 15 months old, but gets a lot of attention, especially from grandmother types, when we are out. I encourage him to say hi, and usually chat with whomever for a minute or two, and encourage him to say bye when we move on.

I love the idea of continuing to encourage controlled setting interactions, and teaching kids to trust their gut, i.e. not to go off with someone if it doesn't feel right.

I talk to everyone and my kids have alternatively been mortified and amused. My son chats away to strangers in three languages, my daughter is more reticent. They both say that they've never felt that they were in a situation that they couldn't control.

IRA Darth Aggie beat me to the punch:

"Now, here's a something from the Law of Unintended Consequences. As a single man, if I come across a lost child, I'm going to go in the opposite direction. I'm not going to risk legal entanglements and possibly imprisonment for being a good Samaritan."

oh so true - no way am I putting myself at risk for someone else's kid. Not gonna happen. I will, however, try to get someone else involved or at least call a cop. But, I will not do any thing else.

About 20 years ago I was looking for friends' new home in a recently built subdivision. This was in the days before cell phones, I was driving around lost when I came upon a group of kids playing hockey in the middle of the street. As they moved out of my way to let me pass, I rolled down my window and asked if they knew where such and such street was. Before they could even answer a man came running out of his house and started screaming at me to get away from his kids! He was going to "call the cops"!

I tried to explain that I was just asking for directions. But, he would have none of it. "Leave now or I'm calling the cops."

Talk about being paranoid - what did he think I was going to do - kidnap the whole hockey team?

I was just thinking about this the other day. I talk to strangers all of the time, and I was actually thinking about it because children like to stare. I try to teach my child to ask politely about something that on his mind instead of staring, things like tattoos and such. Also, I talk to him about trusting his instincts and being observant about his surroundings.

At the end of last school year, on the way to my son's school, I saw a child who was my son's age (whom my son knew and the boy knew my son) running to school. We'd barely be on time, so I knew this kid would be late. I offered him a ride. I spent a day or two wondering if I did the right thing. I had told the boy if he wasn't comfortable, he didn't have to get in.

Even then, I felt bad because as a woman, I'm sure I wasn't even suspected of potential wrongdoing, whereas a guy would be considered suspicious. I would be guilty of it as well. It required a nice open discussion with my son that evening.

For those to lazy to search the achives as suggested

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190586,00.html

And quite frankly the guy was right to leave her

Yep, Lujlp, this is what happens when folks claim that "it is for the sake of the children" or "better safe than sorry."

One Saturday morning last summer I took my son to a ghetto park downtown. I'm playing lava monster or something with the kids, cause I'm an involved sort of dad, when this guy gets up off a bench, puts out his cigarette and comes over to me. "Excuse me, I can see you're a good guy and all but I'm trying to teach my kids not to talk to strangers and, well, you're a stranger."
I think I just stood there with this credulous look thinking, "you can tell I'm not a threat but you are going to teach your kids I'm a bad guy?" The logic. So I grabbed my kid, against heavy protest, and high tailed it to our nice park out in suburbia. I started playing Lava Monster with the kids. One of the moms gets up off the bench, comes over ... and starts being the second lava monster.

The day ended well but I still felt awful after being accused of being stranger danger.

I'm surprised kids even have a chance to be approached by strangers these days, since they're hardly allowed to play in their yards, let alone go anywhere by themselves.

When I was young, back when kids were allowed to walk around on their own, I remember being warned to keep my distance if someone in a car asked for directions somewhere, and never to get in a stranger's car. That's about it. At that time, I don't think my folks could even consider someone luring me with a kitten or puppy, because it had never happened (that we knew of).

I had my older sisters, who were happy to tell me what could happen to kids who went off with strangers. Of course, they also told me the lady next door was a witch and the house next door on the other side was haunted, etc. When I was little I believed everything they told me.

The "witch" turned out to be a very sweet old lady whose kitchen smelled like home-made donuts, which she made and shared on a regular basis. My sisters didn't want me horning in on their territory.

Then again, she did get me started on carbs...

When I was young, back when kids were allowed to walk around on their own, I remember being warned to keep my distance if someone in a car asked for directions somewhere, and never to get in a stranger's car.

I think that's a good, clear rule -- which is what kids need because (the younger ones especially) tend to see things in black-and-white.

That doesn't mean parents need to be paranoid with the blanket "stranger danger" rule.

The rules my mom gave me when I was little:

-Stay away from cars and NEVER get into a car with anyone who wasn't on the short list of family members my mom gave me (a list she'd ask me to recite on demand at random times). We also had a password -- if a stranger (such as someone claiming to be a friend's parent) fed me some yarn about my mom asking him/her to pick me up from school, I was to ask for the password.

If a person in a car asked me directions while I was wandering the neighborhood, I was to take three big steps back away from the car and tell them the directions from a safe distance.

Talking to strangers was OK -- but I should never follow them to lead me away from the place I encountered them. If an adult asked me to leave the location to help them with something, I was to refuse. It was OK to be rude to someone who kept trying to convince me to follow them after I said, "No thanks." If someone tried to force me to go with them, I was to kick and scream.

Clear-cut, black-and-white, easy-to-follow, and, most importantly, REASONABLE rules.

One of the biggest problems with the sex offender lists, is that you have no idea if you are dealing with a serial rapist, an unrepentant child molestor, or just some poor dude who happened to have a relationship with a girl a few years his junior, and got nailed for it.
For the government nanny thugs, they make no distinction, they are there to rack up convictions and plea bargains, not to seperate the wolves from the lambs.
I think people get a false sense of security from the sex offender lists. Most pedophiles are not caught for a long long time, and statistics would indicate for everyone on a list, there are probably 20 more not on it.
I also think people have too much faith in their ability to look at someone and somehow "detect" evil intent or strangness. Every psychological experiment I have ever read seems to indicate that people do a very poor job of this, and some of the most dangerous people are also the most charming....like Ted Bundy"
My 28 year old daughter has had two previous boyfriends who told her they were molested as chidren. Both of them were chidren of divorce, and it was the mother's new boyfriend both times..
someone who was trusted and had access to the house and being'alone with the kid...
So, not only is "stranger danger" a poor metric, it is also way down on the list of risks for actual molestation.

Statiticaly the largest threat to a childs saftey is the childs own mother

Re-reading my comment I wanted to add that I did not mean to frame this as a class issue. I think there is a sizable portion of the population who doesn't believe there is such a thing as a safe neighborhood anymore, even behind a gate.

I wonder how my free-range principles would stand up to the test if we lived downtown and had to negotiate homeless and otherwise sketchy strangers on a day to day basis. I still don't think this is a neighborhood issue.

"So, not only is "stranger danger" a poor metric, it is also way down on the list of risks for actual molestation."
A better metric: self esteem. Both of my potential molesters were preying on my low self esteem. They both underestimated me.

-Stay away from cars and NEVER get into a car with anyone who wasn't on the short list of family members my mom gave me (a list she'd ask me to recite on demand at random times). We also had a password -- if a stranger (such as someone claiming to be a friend's parent) fed me some yarn about my mom asking him/her to pick me up from school, I was to ask for the password.

My girls and I did (and still do) this. And the others that sofar posted. Also, when we went to places where there were a LOT of people (state fairs, carnivals, etc.) I had one word that I used to call the girls if they wandered too far. And if we had a couple of their friends along, we discussed it in the car on the way, and I would ask them what the word was. When I was satisfied they knew it, I'd let the go off a little farther than they otherwise would, if they wanted to investigate something while I was looking at something else. We did this at the Big E one year. Worked every time, and they got to see some great stuff while I was lagging behind.

(That said, my younger daughter was assaulted by a boy her own age, and he denied everything, so the cops couldn't do anything, since it was a "he said. she said" situation. But I've since heard that he's done this to more than a few other girls at their school, and one of the fathers is trying to press charges. She's been in counseling since it happened and seems to be doing okay. But there it is, it was someone she knew, went to school with, and he WAS good friends with the brother of her best friend.)

Some guy said to smurfy: "Excuse me, I can see you're a good guy and all but I'm trying to teach my kids not to talk to strangers and, well, you're a stranger."

I think my response would have been, "Oh, OK, then by all means tell your kids not to talk to me."

I gave my 8 year old twins the choice of staying at the park today, when I took the younger 2 home (1.5 city blocks away, but in the 'burbs). One was fine with it, one decided she wasn't. So we all came home. I feel better with the pair of them. Safety in numbers, and all that. Plus, what fun is the park alone? I'll offer it again in a few months without pushing. They can each decide when comfortable with it once I'M comfortable with it.

They are VERY outgoing. Our rule is you don't go anywhere with someone unless MOM says it's okay TO YOU, and no one can touch your privates or ask you to touch theirs. if they do, you tell mom no matter what and no matter who because it is never your fault and mom will make sure they never do it again.

My kid HATES strangers. Especially when they touch her, which they always want to do, because she's a toddler. She hates it, cries, and then they get offended.

> My kid HATES strangers.

I like your daughter. The people who are offended deserve to be.

I don't want that smelly little beast touching me any more than she wants to be touched...

But an attitude like that portends great things for her future. Nothing can shelter a person like a spiritually-founded set of boundaries.

Fuck yes I'm good-looking...  Keep your hands off  my candy.

Sofar and Flynne: I seem to remember hearing that the trouble with a password is that many a kid gets caught up in a "game" of helping strangers to guess what the word is.

BTW, Miss Manners (in the 1990s?) did a column you can read most of here:

http://tinyurl.com/8sjad7w

In it, she blames some of the confusion on adults who act TOO chummy with strangers in the New Age fashion - and this gets aggravated with how much we chat with strangers online. She also mentions how kids are not taught to restrain their anger properly when adults are "rude" to them. However, one thing she doesn't really talk about is what to teach kids about highly trusted adults who might betray that trust.
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I had my older sisters, who were happy to tell me what could happen to kids who went off with strangers. Of course, they also told me the lady next door was a witch and the house next door on the other side was haunted, etc. When I was little I believed everything they told me.

The "witch" turned out to be a very sweet old lady whose kitchen smelled like home-made donuts, which she made and shared on a regular basis. My sisters didn't want me horning in on their territory.

Then again, she did get me started on carbs...

Posted by: Pricklypear at October 11, 2012 1:43 PM
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That reminds me of this somewhat funny post at altsupportchildfree by T. Van Voris from 2003:

"You know, when I look back on some of the weirdness that happened to me in my younger days, I don't know what to think, but I sure as shit am not going to be booking passage on the Victim Express anytime soon for the things that happened to me thirty years ago.

"Back then, we knew who the Neighborhood Pervert was and he was a JOKE among us kids. We knew he'd try to get us to go to his bedroom and try to cop a feel and it was *funny* not traumatic nor something that we felt we needed to report to anyone. Sure, none of us visited his house by ourselves alone - and most of the time we spent over at his place was watching tv or hiding his beer or snuff while watching him get flustered and confused.

"Why did we go there? I dunno. We were young and stupid and appreciated that there was a place where we could go without having our parents bother us, I guess. We believed that he was our friend. None of the other parents ever even suspected that there was anything untoward about his willingness to watch the kids afterschool. He was older, retired, and a Good Man. He also let some of us drink his beer and read his porn.

"Me and my friends didn't feel like victims back then, and I certainly don't feel like I'm a victim now, either. So some Old Fart tried to grab my boobs when I was 12 - big freaking deal.

"T. Van Voris - perverse and as cold-hearted as ever, I suppose."