The fertility doc who implanted the octuplets should be responsible for their welfare, not the taxpayers.

This pisses me off royally. This bitch blows through her money when she has it on luxuries I will \ would never indulge in, declares bankruptcy, gets foreclosed on, then jumps back on welfare when nobody is interested in her.

They should start a new reality TV show where the kids meet weekly in an elimination style gladiator ring.

Quite frankly all IVF should be illegal

Remember when women having gigantic, chemically induced litters was big entertainment? It all started with that McCaughey family in the Midwest, and this is the inevitable result.

I agree with loojy. There's a REASON some people can't get pregnant. Take it as a sign: you are not meant to be a biological parent. ADOPT. PLEASE. There are SO many kids out there who need loving families, if you can't have one naturally, put your ego to the side and help one of these kids.

Wow, Suleman can't even make a living as a MILF. I'd be embarrassed.

I agree her doctor should be liable.

I also am very pro-adoption-2 cousins, my brother and I were adopted.

I grew up all my life not looking like anyone in my family. I wanted my child to look like me. Yes, it is selfish (most reasons to have children are selfish).

I had 3 failed IUIs then was planning to do IVF (based on their documentation and my age of 40 the most they would implant is 3 embryos, younger women-usually 2--her doc went way out of protocol). Any more than a twin pregnancy is very high risk, and even twin pregnancy can be high risk depending upon age and other pre-existing conditions.

Infertility is a heart-wrenching process. I have had moments of feeling less than.

I am 4.5 months now-naturally. Funny thing was I was taking the IVF class that is required and I was already pregnant (didn't know it).

I am glad I had the option of IVF. I am more than thrilled that we were able to do it naturally. I have a couple cousins that had their babies that way, again the curse of waiting too long. I had a friend from work who need it too and she was 5 years younger than me.

And even though I am a huge fan of adoption (after meeting my biological family-I am more than thrilled that I am adopted), the first foster mother I was placed with refused to bond with me, and when I was finally adopted they thought something was wrong with me because I didn't respond to things the way normal babies do. There are still risks to adoption.

Her doc's liability should be based on the fact that no reasonable fertility doctor would implant that many embryos at one time (both for the health of the mother and the health of the babies).

She screwed up. She was offered a LOT more money for a porn gig when she first came to the limelight. She refused and as her stock and public interest went down, so did the fee.

Octo-mom and her Dr are idiots. The children should be removed from the home, and she should be made to provide for herself.

That being said, as an adoptee, and having an adoptee husband and many adoptee friends, I can say with a certainty that not all cases have happy endings. While some adoptive parents are great and provide loving homes, such as Milo's parents, the majority of parents are either too un-informed, too ill-equipped, and just plain too selfish to have children. I think the better course of action are orphanges. Sux for the kids, but it is better then the alternative in alot of cases. If you can't have children naturally, you probably weren't meant to at all.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that because a woman can't get pregnant, she wasn't meant to have children. You aren't a "mommy" just because you can get pregnant. Pregnancy is just biology. Being a "mommy" is something else entirely. I'd hardly call this piece of media trash, Suleman, a "mommy".

Pregnancy is (apparently) a special part of becoming a parent but it doesn't magically transform a selfish, lazy, entitled person into a patient, nuturing, parent. You're either fit to be a parent or you're not.

I don't know if pregnancy is going to be a problem for us yet but then again, hubby and I haven't been trying that long. We've had one miscarriage already and though we are trying again, we've already decided that IVF will never be an option if we can't get pregnant naturally. We are not willing to put my body or our finances through that just to get pregnant. We just want a family. I hardly think that the possibility that I may not be able to get pregnant naturally means I shouldn't have children at all. It, IMO, means that perhaps, my journey to becoming a mommy was meant to go down a different path. Adoption has always been on the table for us and we will probably adopt regardless of whether or not we can get pregnant, anyway.

I don't buy any argument that centers around what people are "meant" to do. What does that mean, exactly? Who is meaning for us to do something? God? Maybe lots of us were meant to die before the age of 10, but we have antibiotics now, so we don't need to.

I don't care what people do with their bodies -- abortion or IVF -- as long as they can deal with the consequences.

Adoption is great. I was adopted and got a pretty good deal out of it. But it's a brutal process. There just aren't enough healthy newborns to go around. People who are willing to adopt kids with serious health problems or older kids should be commended, but that's a rough path. Even kids just a little past the infancy stage can have a hard time bonding with adoptive parents, never mind the older kids who come from abusive or neglectful homes. Adoption agencies can make a prospective couple's life a living hell with all the questions and investigating, and in the end they might not even be approved, or they might be approved and spend years on a waiting list.

Believe it or not, IVF is often the easiest, less painful path.

Being reported this afternoon that former Louisiana Gov. Edwin "Fast Eddie" Edwards and his wife (he's 85, she's 34) are now expecting their first child. IVF, natch.

Today in line at the grocery store I am behind a man who was buying a whole stockpile of baby formula and food. Heaps. With food stamps (WIC).

Not only does this man coat me money but time too. Five minutes I am behind him before they can even start scanning be wise of all the stinkin paperwork involved.

I probably seem heartless to a lot of people but I am so god damn sick of this crap.

I don't want to ban it, but insurance should not pay for it.

There needs to be some legal way to make sure one person can't unilaterally decide to have a child and then foist the financial responsibility for those kids onto the state or a sperm doner.

This ultimately is one of the unintended consequence of getting rid of orphanges in favor of AFDC. I am not sure which was worse.

On the other hand, if you are a young person, already burdened with college loan debt, and earning negative interest on any money you put away, you would be insane to have kids without someone else picking up the tab.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that because a woman can't get pregnant, she wasn't meant to have children.

Never said they werent meant to have kids, said the werent meant to PROCRERATE.

Biology is a bitch, nature doenst give a fuck about your fulfillment, nature pushes SURVIVAL

And if you cant concieve naturally there is a damn good reason. We may not see it right away, but I'm willing to lay odds that with 200yrs doctors will be able to trace a whole host of geneticially induced ailments to IVF babies.

Now if you happend to be shot in the uterus and used IVF to have a surroget carry a child I dont see a problem with that, per se, but having babies isnt like rolling the wheel on a roulette table. Womens bodies self abort babies all the time.

Quite frankly I'd like to see someone do a genetic study on infertile couples and see how easily they'd concive with other partners.

Yes, looj, that's what I meant as well. Thanks for posting that.

I want to bring up an unpleasant subject. I believe one of the major reasons for fertility problems in your thirties is sexual promiscuity in your teens and twenties.

My daughter has already had two minor surgical proceedures on her cervix as a result of HPV, and I dont think she will ever have children.

A lot of women have fallopian tube scaring and endomitrosis as a result of HPV, Chlamydia, yeast infections, IUD's birth control pills etc. and they have passed their prime reproductive years without having children. Women have had far more sexual choices than women a hundred years ago did, but the bill always comes due, doesn't it?

Some fertility doctors are not looking out for the health of mom and baby. It is better to fail at IVF than to risk more than twins or triplets. My sister-in-law was given fertility pulls at the age of 19 after trying to conceive for less than a year. There is such a thing as abusive medicine.

"Biology is a bitch, nature doenst give a fuck about your fulfillment, nature pushes SURVIVAL"

Yes yes yes! Lujlp is soo right, your genes don't want to be passed on but you are forcing them to.

Seriously why do people do this? Spend so much money to have kids. Why can't you find meaning in adopting? Or not having kids?

I have shit genes and I would never pass them on.

I'd suggest selling the children for medical experiments, but they already are.

She screwed up. She was offered a LOT more money for a porn gig when she first came to the limelight. She refused and as her stock and public interest went down, so did the fee. -- David H at January 8, 2013 10:06 AM

I was not impressed at all by her masturbation video (NSFW) let alone the dildo portion (NSFW).

The way that I think that ADFC, WIC, or the rest of the food stamp program should be handled is that the max food stamps is to pay for a max of four children. And if you sign up for food stamps with one child and one on the way, you cannot get more than two allotments for more children, outside of special circumstances (death of relatives, court ordered guardian, etc.) without being off food stamps for a minimum of three years.

The idea is that severely discourage spawning children for tax money,

In that anecdotal, chatty, never-gonna-be-able-to-prove-it-to-anyone way, I agree with Isab January 8, 2013 5:58 PM. The senior women in my life least bothered by those problems are the ones who've been socially, um, gentle.

We mess with biology all the time. We use man-made products to prolong our lives, change our appearance, make ourselves look younger, thinner, prettier. We use medicines and surgeries on those with fatal conditions (like metastasized cancers) to prolong their lives. We do all sorts of things to get around sickness, aging, and dying. Hell, we use condoms, birth control pills, IUDs, and abortions to STOP pregnancy.

If we can screw with biology in all these other places, why is it not okay in this ONE area?

I think it's a bit silly, would you tell a diabetic "Well, maybe nature didn't mean for you to have a pancreas" and suggest they not get treatment? If a pill or shots can fix your glitch, why NOT take it?

Original Kit, very good point! But, I draw the line Nicole at the whole diabetic comparison. You aren't going to die by not getting pregnant.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that because a woman can't get pregnant, she wasn't meant to have children.

Never said they werent meant to have kids, said the werent meant to PROCRERATE.

Biology is a bitch, nature doenst give a fuck about your fulfillment, nature pushes SURVIVAL

Ah. Thank you for clarifying. Maybe I am taking some of these comments personally because of my own desires for motherhood so forgive me for misunderstanding.

In that case I agree. Nature has a way of sorting these things out. But, I suppose there is another argument to be made about wanting to pass on one's genes so that's why people try so hard to have one biologically. At least for males. Women are generally the more empathetic and nurturing sex. It's not uncommon for a women to take to an adopted child more easily than a male. The desire for procreation is instinctual in nature. Animals have sex to procreate, not for pleasure. A female animal in the wild is more likely to take a motherless cub than a male. A male animal will veiw an orphan as competition or worse, as prey. The same argument could be made for a man though, not as literally of course.

Interestingly enough, while looking for that article I read about men’s desire to "spread their seed", I came across this article basically blasting all the reasons why people want to have kids, including my own. Not that it's going to change my mind, but it did get a few genuine guffaws and Aha's from me.
http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm

On another note, it irks me when I hear women, very dismissively say "I don't think you've become a REAL mother until you've experienced labor pain." about motherhood. I think that's one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. Your ability to breed doesn't make you qualified to be a parent, IMO. Being a REAL mother has nothing to do with biology. It's a choice.

I want to bring up an unpleasant subject. I believe one of the major reasons for fertility problems in your thirties is sexual promiscuity in your teens and twenties.

I can see the argument that un-safe sexual activity in one’s youth can factor into fertility in your later years. But, I don’t necessarily believe that's always the case. We all know a woman who’s, bluntly, a textbook harlot and has NO issues getting pregnant. I'm 31 years old and have had only 4 sexual partners my whole life. Each partner I've been with has worn a condom. I've never smoked, taken any sort of drug other than prescribed pain killers, Claritin, and prescribed, antibiotics, and though I drink my fair share of red wine, I've never been a party girl. I’m very healthy, and no one in my family has any fertility issues. So, if I have fertility problems, it's not likely due to any indiscretions in my youth.

I can also see the arguments out there about how the type of birth control used prior to trying to conceive might also be a factor. Doctors will tell you that there are no long term fertility effects from the pill but if you think about it, the pill really hasn't been around THAT long and while it's improving women’s sex lives, who really knows what the long term effects are? I didn't start the pill until I was in my mid-20's and with my husband. I haven't been on the pill for two years since we started talking about trying to get pregnant so it's long out of my system by now but who knows? Maybe my age is a factor but it’s still too soon to tell.

Each woman’s body is different. Each man’s body is different. Sometimes, the combination just doesn't jive for inexplicable reasons. There is no one reason as to why some people conceive easier than others. Like lujlp said, Biology is a bitch.

I’m not opposed to IVF, in theory. If one can afford it, and is willing to deal with whatever comes from it, so be it.

The only thing everyone really agrees on is this: If you can’t afford to take care of the kid, and aren’t willing to do the work required to rearing the kid, don’t have one. Period. It’s not the government’s job to subsidize your choice to breed.

Welfare is supposed to take care of widows and orphans, not sluts, narcissists, and good-for-nothings.

I don't have a moral issue with IVF- but I do believe it's setting yourself up for heartbreak.

Sabrina, there's always someone trying to define what "real" motherhood is. Get far enough into the ludicrous and you're not a real mother unless you give birth by squatting in a field while earth mothers blow incense up your ass. It's crazy.

MonicaP, you owe me a new monitor. That made me spit coffee.

Aww, thanks, guys.

We can post porn clips?? Why hasn't anyone told me? Mommmmm!

PS- I agree with you about those clips, Jim P. Even the dildo was faking it.

We mess with biology all the time. -The Original Kit

Your point?

We use man-made products to prolong our lives, change our appearance, make ourselves look younger, thinner, prettier. -The Original Kit

A guy in china just sued his soon to be ex wife for fraud for not disclosing the fact that before plastic surgery she was a troll and he now has an ugly baby he never would have if he had known the truth

We use medicines and surgeries on those with fatal conditions (like metastasized cancers) to prolong their lives. -The Original Kit

And I'd argue that such people should also be barred from procreating after having such treatment

We do all sorts of things to get around sickness, aging, and dying. -The Original Kit

90% of it AFTER childbirth

If we can screw with biology in all these other places, why is it not okay in this ONE area? -The Original Kit

Do you want a more in depth answer then the one I just gave?

"If we can screw with biology in all these other places, why is it not okay in this ONE area? -The Original Kit"

Because you are creating a whole new life form, being, person.

It's like people who have disabled kids and have more hoping one will turn out "right". Sometimes they do-but then they have the burden of a disabled sibling.

And then other times they don't come out "right". And it is a miserable life, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Being at the mercy of others all your life without a chance of getting better is no fun. Especially being taken care of by people who make minimum wage.

I was watching some show on BBC America a few years back and this couples first daughter had some skin condition I cant for the life of me remember.

The skin would thicken, harden, and almost crystilize, any sudden movements or too great amount of pressure would result in massive skin fissures. She had to be gently oiled three times a day as even the process of growing would rend the skin.

They couldnt get pregnant so she was taking fertility drugs.

After the first kid they wanted a "normal" baby, took 'em three or four more.

Cant remember if tehy had four kids casue the fouth was normal or cause one of the five had died.

But the net result was they had three kids with this skin condition which will most likely result in their deaths around puberty from massive infection of skin lesions

But the 6 of them were in a room together being filmed when the mother proudly and shamelessly proclaimed "It took a while but we finally had a perfect baby"?

Found it Harlequin Ichthyosis

WARNING DO NOT CLICK UNLESS YOU ARE READY TO VOMIT AND HAVE NIGHTMARES

Sick fucks knowingly had three or four more kids with the 90% chance they would be born with this in their quest for a 'normal' one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Harlequin+Ichthyosis&hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS496US497&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=U1LuUPqFMIPy2QXm0YHABg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1092&bih=514

That's horrible, Lujlp. I can't even wrap my brain around this.

WTF is wrong with these people? What kind of people do this?! What pleasure can one possibly derive, as a parent, from this? And those poor kids. What kind of future do they have? None.

Absurd. Absofuckinglutely, absurd.

I've seen this with parents of autistic kids. There are 3 or 4 autistic kids and they just keep trying. I can't help but wish they would just focus on the kids they already have. But even in those cases, they aren't using IVF most of the time. They just keep having kids the old-fashioned way.

But that's not the norm for couples who pursue IVF. Most of them don't have any kids at all, and the kids they get via IVF turn out fine. Often, the cause of infertility is a mystery. If it's not genetic but mechanical, then there's not a lot of potential for genetic harm.

The point that we've screwed with biology quite a lot already is a strong one. How many of us would have died in childhood if we hadn't had access to antibiotics and other medical wonders? Those genes would have been weeded out then, but now those people are growing up to have kids of their own. Not to mention that evolution is about creating humans who can survive, not perfect humans. If kids are so damaged that they won't survive past puberty, then the parents who knowingly brought them into the world have something to answer for, but that's not something that's going to hurt humanity as a whole.