Wonderful Cosh piece about this.

If the world was dipping into the zombie apocalypse, then, sure, sewing, changing a tire, etc. are needed skills. However, the chances of the zombie apocalypse occurring is higher than the chance that my wife learns how to sew.

Okay. Isn't it easy to do nothing?

Wait for the tire man. I'm sure anyone who happens by will have your best interest at heart.

Isn't it appealing, the idea that {insert demographic here} should never have to learn something?

I'll quote Robert Heinlein:
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Don't be left out.

Sure, I know "how" to change a tire, but am I willing to do so except in a dire emergency? "No"

because a tire is heavy. The nuts that hold the wheel on are locked on there pretty good. The jack is hard to get under the axle.

I am a fifty seven year old woman, and while I am strong for my age, the chances of doing real damaged to myself trying to save a 150 dollar tire doesn't even begin to cover the medical deductible when I hurt myself doing it or new clothes if I destroy something nice lying on road placing the jack.
I have rarely had a flat in the age of steel belted tires. Carry a can of that expanding tire seal foam they sell at Walmart, and get yourself one of those mini compressors that plug into your cell phone charger.

Pump up a slow leak, spray in the foam,and then drive to the nearest tire center or truck stop.
Anything that is so bad, you can't drive on it, call a tow truck.

Also if you make your living with your hands, musicians, and surgeons come to mind, you have no business changing your own tires.

Although you should know how so you can check the work.

"Don't do things you suck at" -- Not sure where I heard it but it's been my mantra for the last few weeks as I go through spring cleaning mode.

Well, I'm 55 years young, and I can do everything on that list. I can also change the oil in my car. Just because I can, however, doesn't mean I do it.

In addition to all those things listed, I can also:

Ride a horse

Shoot a bow

Shoot a hand gun and a rifle

Do all three on horseback

Wield a sword

plant and harvest a garden

shoot and harvest a deer

play the piano and the guitar (and I don't suck at either)

sing

roll the best lookin doobie you've ever seen

play a mean game of pool

suck the chrome off a trailer hitch

enjoy sex

and I can still kick that bitch down the street's ass. Although I've no reason to anymore.

"'...Don't "No. 26. Whip up a signature dish that's not spaghetti or meatloaf.'

This one is too old-timey-time for my taste, like 'No. 13: Sew." I also have to wonder if these two would make a 50 Things list for men?'

Um, yes, actually. Being able to cook competently for yourself is on the list of "things a mature man should be able to do."

And I've discovered that having a couple of signature dishes (beyond grilling steak) that involve more than three ingredients impresses the crap out of many women when the time comes for "wanna go get a couple of drinks" to turn into "well, how 'bout dinner at my place."

And while tailoring an entire suit is out of bounds for most men, every man should be able to replace buttons or repair a seam at one AM the night before a big presentation.

Oh and a caveat to my list: I could do all of those things BEFORE I turned 40.

Just sayin'.

o.O

Oh yeah, and I can wire in series and in parallel.

But I can't do math. Well, some. Not algebra. Or square roots. Or trig. Nope, no good at math.

"Heinlein was wrong."
I don't think I've ever seen a more ridiculous statement than this on this blog, including some of old Chuckles' rants about homeopathy.
Mankind got to be where it is by being capable of many different things. Don't mistake the division of labor made possible by social construct for some divine mandate to be incapable - especially when it comes to self-defense, which is actually what you're doing changing your own tire. You're reducing your helplessness, a thing predators can detect very well.

If you know how to do something, you may choose not to do it. If not? You can't. Happy?

Hmm. Does anyone here know of a person who is perceived as more valuable because they DON'T know how to do something?

(Flynne is smokin' hot. She has her own '06!)

My grandmother taught me all those useless 50's skills, including canning!

I have never canned a tomato in my life. Sewing would have been useful, except they came up with sewing machines when SHE was a child. As I am not in the sciences or practicing law, I kinda dropped the Latin. Google translate is a wonderful thing.

I have never needed to know how to do laundry by hand, or needed any of the dozens of home remedies she was famous for. We have Nyquil now.

Some skills are gonna die out.

I can make a mean stuffed pepper though.

I have mixed feelings on some of this stuff, and I find myself at a loss to actually rationally explain why I feel the way I do. But mostly I'm comfortable with that.

I can't even imagine not being able to change a tire, sew on a button, etc. I might choose not to do these things - getting under the car for the jack if I were dressed for a concert, for example; and if I were physically unable to change a tire (viz. Isab) I wouldn't try. But as an able-bodied, reasonably self-sufficient adult, it would never occur to me to call AAA for a flat tire.

I enjoy sewing, but it's also been a handy skill for things like burst seams and lost buttons. I cook better than my wife, and have taught my kids to cook. I do most of my own home repairs. Part of it is that I enjoy these things - I like to use my hands to create and build. But part of it is just that it's the way I grew up. I learned to use tools from a very early age; my father, either through choice or budget or his own upbringing fixed and built and made do rather than buying things; we've always done it that way.

"Sure, I know 'how' to change a tire, but am I willing to do so except in a dire emergency? 'No'"

There's an important distinction here. You don't have to be able to do everything yourself, but you should at least know enough about it so that you have an idea of what it should cost and when you're being ripped off. If a service guy looks at your flat tire and says you need a new transmission, that should get you at bit suspicious.

I can sew a bit, well enough to sew buttons back on and fix loose hems. I used to darn cotton socks, but one day I realized that my time was worth more than the $3 for a new pair of socks. I can do electrical wiring; I wired much of my house. If an outlet needs changing, I can do that. Now, the cost of a new outlet is only a few bucks, and the physical labor isn't that involved. However, for a person who knows nothing about electricity, it's dangerous and I would not recommend that they attempt it themselves.

I used to do my own taxes. It wasn't that hard back in the days when I only had to file a 1040A. But the year my wife and I got married, I had a house that I was renting out, and I had some stock that had to be written off because the company went bankrupt. That year I let my wife convince me to take our taxes to an accountant. I've let the accountant do it ever since.

Learning new skills is a good thing, and knowing the basics about how things work is an even better thing. We would be in much better shape as a nation right now if more people knew the basisc about economics and our system of government. However, there are only so many hours in a day, and you can't be good at everything. I know the basics of tax accounting, but it isn't worth my time to go exploring dusty corners of the tax code. I know enough about it to know roughly what an accountant should charge me, and that's all I really need.

Oh, and - What Radwaste said. Squared. I didn't wish to be offensive to our hostess, and she's certainly entitled to her own choices. She has a large measure of social utility, after all, if only because SOMEONE has to tell those @$$holes how to act like civilized people.

But it baffles me that someone ordinarily so in favor of individual liberty chooses to be so essentially helpless.

(PS: I don't know Flynne, but she certainly sounds like my kind of person. :) )

I can pump a fire truck, but I haven't had to use that skill in more than a decade.

Knowing how to change a tire is important, however. My wife can change a tire, and has done so numerous times. Her brother refused to teach her to drive until she could demonstrate her ability to change a tire. He sat in a lawn chair and drank a beer while she changed the tire. A valuable skill.

Evidently, the ability to read is not one of the things women should know how to do.

Sorry if one are going to complain about sewing and cooking being 1950s stereotypical female, one doesn't get to complain about fixing a flat. Eating driving and wearing clothes are thingss we all do every single day accidents and emergencies happen that often neeed quick non perfect solutions.
I'd add to the list basic fisrt aid/cpr. Sure there are Drs and 911, but a drowned person won't last long enough for the ambulance to arrive.
And personally the do your own taxes once, is a good thing, just because it will show you how ass backwards, deliberately complicated, and greedy the gov't actually is.

I'm half & half on this. Having at least the basic knowledge on how to do things you might have to do in a pinch, is a good thing. I don't need to be conversant in auto repair, but after having had a tire blow out on a really hot day w/2 kids in the car, I'd rather I'd been able to change the tire myself & get going w/o having to wait for the tire guy (I don't have AAA, but I have GEICO, and they will also let me into my car & put on a spare).

So, I actually figured out HOW to do it, but couldn't unstick the stupid jack from the spare (I think that was what was bolted on, something had a bolt that I couldn't undo). So, it didn't really matter in the end, but if I'd been someplace in the middle of nowhere, it would have been good to know HOW to do it.

As for sewing - nobody NEEDS to know this, but it's good to have a grasp of the basics in case you ever need to put a button back on quickly (or similar). I'm not a big sewer by any means, but I can get scout badges on, fix a button (it's not pretty on the back, but it works & looks okay on the front). I can't count the number of times I've had to do this either late at night or randomly on a Sunday.

So, I would say the advice to "be familiar with how to do things in your life, even if you don't actually do them all the time" is much better (like, say, knowing when the tax deadline is, if you have state/local tax, what receipts you should keep, and the number of a tax person)....

or we could go with the scouting idea of "be prepared."

As for "signature dish" and telling people off, etc. Well, that's just silly.

Knowing how to change a tire is important, however. My wife can change a tire, and has done so numerous times. Her brother refused to teach her to drive until she could demonstrate her ability to change a tire. He sat in a lawn chair and drank a beer while she changed the tire. A valuable skill. -- roadgeek at April 8, 2013 6:45 AM

An anecdote from Reader's Digest years ago. Dad insisted his daughter learn to change the tire as part of learning to drive. Several years later she was in college, and came out of class to a flat tire. She insisted on changing it herself. By the time she was done she had been asked out three times.

I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it. -- Pablo Picasso

I have learned how to can food, sew, cook, do wood work and carpentry, light electrical work (switches, sockets, and fixture replacement), programming, laundry, car maintenance and repairs, gardening, some plumbing, and other tasks that they listed and some they didn't.

Do I do all of them nowadays? No. Do I want to? No. Could I if I needed to? Probably.

However, the chances of the zombie apocalypse occurring is higher than the chance that my wife learns how to sew. -- Andrew Hall at April 8, 2013 3:02 AM

There probably will never be a zombie apocalypse. But what if there is another great depression and those little green and white pieces of paper are worth more as toilet paper?

Then you have to have something to trade to get replacement clothing, or figure out how to repair the clothing you have already have. Same with knowing how to cook. Or buying food. Or keeping the vehicle running.

Just saying.

Why can't your signature dish be something you order?

Here's what I think Radwaste was getting at, though. (Raddy, feel free to jump in if I've got this wrong.) I've come to the conclusion lately that most people these days are really shallow. Not that they're stupid; they know some things and can learn others, but they don't care to. Their only basis for making any kind of judgments is whether or not something validates their feelings and pre-conceived notions. Nothing else matters to them.

The problemw with that is, there are certain basic competencies you must have in order to be a functional adult and carry out the basic responsibilities of citizenship. Things like being able to get and hold a job, manage your money, play nice with others, and know the basics of our our system of government is supposed to work. As evidenced by the past number of years of election results, we have a lot of voters who don't have these basic skills and don't care anything about acquiring them. These people don't worry about things because they assume that, for anything they will ever want or need, there will always be someone else to pay for it. And that's where we stand. We're far from Heinlien's list of skills here; we're talking about competency as an adult human being. Far too many people simply don't have it.

There are a number of things I can do which you can't; therefore, you suck, and I feel better about myself.

I can't wait for her article on sex. Should be even more self-congratulatory.

>>>As for sewing - nobody NEEDS to know this, but it's good to have a grasp of the basics in case you ever need to put a button back on quickly (or similar). I'm not a big sewer by any means, but I can get scout badges on, fix a button (it's not pretty on the back, but it works & looks okay on the front).

My memory is foggy, but wasn't being able to sew on a button itself a requirement in scouts?

It seems a reasonable requirement for a scout, even if you'll never do it again.

Isomber,

It might be, depending on what kind of scout & at what level (girl/boy/cub/etc). There are lots of kinds of scouts. My son is a Tiger Cub Scout, and it is not a requirement for that level, but I think it is an elective (it might be a requirement higher up - and I think "sewing on your own darned badge" should be a requirement at some point).

Where are these women who haven't yet told someone off?

This is like one of those 50 things men should know how to do... articles.

What I find interesting is the reaction to it. On those men's articles, there is usually: "I can do 25"... or 30 of these, and a few "nah, dun need to learn how to smoke a cigar..."

But I've never seen this reaction: "I DON'T NEED to know that, I don't WANT to know that, I SHALL NEVER LEARN TO DO THAT!!!!1111"

And what happens when AAA tells you that they'll be there in 4 hours [this happens all the time in big city rush hour] or HORRORS you happen to be out in that part of the country where cell signals aren't that great, and the closes AA person is a long way. Y'know some of the most beautiful parts of our country are very beautiful precisely because not a lot of people live there, and having a breakdown can be an issue.

So acting like you don't need to know because you will never use it, may or may not be true.

IT'S THE KNOWING THAT'S IMPORTANT, NOT THE USING.
I know how to sew, and have repaired many a pair of jeans. Jeans that then last into extra innings saving me a ton of cash over the years. Do you throw out a shirt because a button comes loose? Doesn't it seem kinda stupid to waste money in that way? How much work d'ya gotta do in order to afford a new shirt? You can do this stuff while watchin' TV y'know.

It's not that I do it alot, but teaching yourself to sew is simply a matter of attaching 2 materials to each other with a third materials, and by gum, I do know how to build stuff.

Some of this is just a feeling of confidence that you can puzzle out how to do things, and then DECIDING if it's worth the time. [socks no, jeans yes] Cooking no, making basic stuff, sure, sharp knives? Absolutely.

Cooking from a recipe? Built a .060 over 396 chevy rat engine from parts... I think I can follow instructions.

Taking pride in being too busy to know how to do something is no different from being overly proud you are able to do stuff.

Being confident that you can figure out how to deal what life slings at you is... priceless, As they say.

I dunno how to conn a ship, but I know how to drive a boat, and I'll figure it out if needed.

Where are these women who haven't yet told someone off? -- dee nile at April 8, 2013 11:00 AM

Not here. I think every lady commenting on this blog has told crid where to go get there at least once. :-p

Chicks dig me.

There's an important distinction here. You don't have to be able to do everything yourself, but you should at least know enough about it so that you have an idea of what it should cost and when you're being ripped off.

Good point Cousin Dave. Which is exactly why I do my own taxes. I'll outsource hard stuff, but at least then I have a fair idea when I'm being lied to. And yes, I can sew a bit, I have several pieces of furniture I built myself, I'm a good cook, I bake bread from scratch occasionally, and I can do simple car repairs. Lots of other rarely used skills too. I've even done a bit of welding.

Heinlein wasn't wrong. The context of Rad's quote was when Heinlein was writing about potential nuclear holocaust (a subject he banged on about for a number of years). What he was saying is a jack of all trades is better off than someone overly specialised if things go to shit. It never hurts to have extra knowledge and skills. We may not be facing a complete collapse of civilisation, but if it was a choice between waiting 4 hours for AAA or changing my own damn tire, I know which one I'd go with. And have done.

And what happens when AAA tells you that they'll be there in 4 hours [this happens all the time in big city rush hour] or HORRORS you happen to be out in that part of the country where cell signals aren't that great, and the closes AA person is a long way.

What about before cell phones? In Australia, being able to change your own tire wasn't just a nice to have, it was a survival skill. Even now, you don't want to be stranded out in the middle of fucking nowhere without a UHF radio or satellite phone. I live in a big city, so it's usually not a concern for me - but I'm well aware when I do go on a trip that I'm on my own, and had damn well better be able to look after myself.

Regarding doing your own taxes, I value expertise. You really know the ins and outs of the tax codes?

Different (and easier) jurisdiction for me, but yes, I do. I have a friend who is an accountant who helps me when I need it (which is rare, usually just advice or an opinion). I invested the time to learn about it when I was self-employed. A few Sundays reading the rules and guidelines online. Company tax as well. It's not really that hard.

One of the greatest compliments I've ever gotten was a from a friend who said that if there were ever a zombie Apocalypse, she would call me and my husband, because we can do things.

I did my own taxes when they were simple. Now, hiring someone saves me a ton of money.

I like competent people better than I like incompetent ones. Someone who has many skills is much more interesting/useful than a one-trick pony. Being a generalist has a much higher survival value than being a specialist.

I'm with you, Rad. But then, Mr Heinlein warped my brain in childhood (and beyond).

I think one of my better qualities is in recognizing the value of expertise, and being willing to pay for it.

And one of the ways to learn how to recognise expertise is to have some clue from doing it yourself. I'm not the best accountant in the world by a long shot, but I'm a competent bookkeeper.

MonicaP - exactly my point.

I do my own taxes. It really is not that difficult in the age of software. Most people have simple returns anyway.
If more people did their own taxes, more of them would vote Republican. :-)

You only need a lot of expertise if you get into owning a small business, or a farm. Corporate taxes are a whole different ball of wax though.

I don't think I have ever told Crid off. We did get into a minor kerfuffle over von Clausewitz one time.

The best place to learn how to change a tire is practicing in your own driveway. You'll have the know-how and the tools you should always have in the trunk.

You'll appreciate knowing how when it's 3am, you get a flat. there is no cell service and Ed Kemper stops to help you out.

Long time reader, first time commenter.

"When my boyfriend's friend asked whether I could fix a flat tire, I said, "Of course I can! I whip out my wallet and dial AAA.""

I've read the back and forth on this. I will be honest: I have a AAA membership. I can change a flat. I have changed a flat. I have also had a car slip off the jack while I was changing the flat. (I hate bumper jacks.) I have also called AAA to change a flat for me, arguably because I'm lazy and have already paid for the AAA membership. (I also maintain a AAA for my mother, who is 70 years old: she probably could change a flat, but at this point I feel like she's earned the right not to.)

I also remember reading a few years back about a young woman who had a flat out on Cape Cod (I believe). She called AAA and they told her it would be four hours before they could get out there. So she settled back to wait.

Sometime within that four hours, she was raped and murdered.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I thinking knowing how to change a flat is good, but not wanting to because you get more utility out of doing something else is something that's not worth looking down on a person for.

(Ms. Alkon, I can't speak to AAA in Southern California, but I know AAA in Austin does not provide any response time guarantee. On the other hand, I think 45 minutes is the longest I've had to wait in recent memory.)

Knowing how to change a flat is useful if accidentally let your AAA membership lapse. I hide in shame.

One of the reasons I ditched AAA was when traveling about 7 years ago into LA, they totally geve me a multi-hour wait. I cut it way-too-close in my old Acura on the 210 Foothills Parkway climbing towards the 15 on my way out... and ran out of gas. Called AAA and they informed me it would be some time, and I was probably better off getting my own gas, unless I wanted to wait more that 2 hours. Maybe they treated me different because I was a Colorado card holder rather than California... But I jumped a few fences, walked a few miles... got my own gas, probably illegally since it wasn't in a certified gas container... put it in the tank and got to a fuel station, and the rest is history.

Since my auto insurance has road assistance on it anyway, I dropped AAA. In the many years I had them [from when I was 16], they always took at LEAST an hour... in bad weather longer, and the worst was when I lived in Chicago, NOT in the sticks. Back then, it was worth it for the towing. Now, not so much.

And? Once I fixed my '59 Rambler before they even got there to help. :grin: heh, that's how I found your blog Amy... nostalgia for my old finned wonder.

"Chicks dig me."

If you're talking the cute little baby poultry, I agree!

Why would I be on the road at 3am? -- Amy Alkon at April 8, 2013 3:21 PM

Amy,

I know this is terribly unfair, and cutting, but what if Gregg flew in from Detroit on the red-eye flight and were in a car accident afterward?

No life goes as planned. You can make all the plans you want, but fate, happenstance or lady luck will visit eventually.

Paraphrase from Terry Pratchett:

There are three types of luck: good, bad and the lady. When Lady Luck deigns to visit, you may have the best luck immediately but have to deal with the bad for the rest of your life. You may have intermediate luck and survive the moment and have good fortune from thereon. But never depend on the Lady, for she is very fickle.

And many years ago I read a book called Lucifer's Hammer. A few of the characters were scientists; but had no other real skills. They were assigned to pick rocks out of fields.

I think if you take a summary of all the comments here you get a idea of the American ideal. We may have experience in many areas but are not limited to any one thing. Many of us are JOATs (Jack Of All Trades) and do not look down on anyone that has a different skill set. We may have specialties, but can adapt.

The author of the reply to the 50 list dismisses having any real knowledge outside of her world view. To me that is offensive. If she showed up at my door in a crisis with that attitude, she'd be living in the barn and given the oatmeal or other subsistence food. If she refused to work, she would be kicked to the "curb".

One of the best survival strategies in any situation is self awareness. Be aware of what your skill sets are, and what situations where you might be totally out of your depth.

The real moral of the story about the girl who waited for four hours for AAA, and was raped and killed in the meantime, is if you are defenseless, don't voluntarily put yourself is a position where you are alone, (off the beaten track somewhere).

Most of the time it works out ok, but the one tenth of a percent of the time when it doesn't is what you prepare for.
In the example cited, I think carrying a gun, and knowing how to use it, is a lot more valuable than knowing how to change a tire because if you are out on the side of a lonely backwoods road changing a tire, you are exposed to any bad actor that might come along.

Many women have been killed by trusting people who looked ok, some of them were even wearing uniforms.

While I have a lot of theoretical skills, those I haven't used in a while are kind of rusty.
Recognizing that, and not putting myself in bars in rough neighborhoods, at closing time, or out on the road at 3am without a gun in my pocket, are just prudence. ( The gun, I practice with, all the time )and I simply won't go into a free fire zone with a "no guns" sign on the door.

> We did get into a minor kerfuffle over
> von Clausewitz

What part of his work do you admire? I'll review.

> I ditched AAA was when traveling about 7 years
> ago into LA, they totally geve me a
> multi-hour wait.

They totally honored the half-hour thing for me, even when I had a girlfriend in Pasadena, and that half-hour meant a LOT to me... If they'd been late, I'd have been totally cool with it. And when they guy got there, he had my car in motion so quickly and so easily that it seemed especially courteous of him to have stopped; With his skillz, he could have done a drive-by.

Any car out of warranty needs AAA.

> I agree!

If turdlette resentments are what this is about, they should at least me amusing... or decorative.

Pisses me off, too, because just a few hours ago, a Canadian blogger sang a new favorite all-time tweet, so I was trying to like you granite-nippled fuckers again.... And you've ruined it.

WAY TO GO, Wtf. Hope you're SATISFIED, you big MEANNIE!!!!!

> I am an urban girl.

&

These two comments were one sentence away from each other, and are entirely coherent... If you know what you're prepared to deal with, you're much safe than if you trust in voodoo principle ('I think that on the inside, everyone wants to be a nice person...!').

As with so many things in life, I'm of more than one mind on this. Or perhaps just a muddled mind.

Sure, there's value in knowing how to turn a wrench and read a tape measure. But really, one can go further than practicable pretty easily too. To illustrate with my own boring stories- I've changed out motors on trucks (diesel trucks) I've owned, by my own hand in a garage. I guess I can feel proud of doing it myself and being a sorta self sufficient macho man, but geeze, the opportunity cost! While I was doing that, I could have been doing something else that would have furthered my goals and desires in life. I proved to myself that I could do it. After the fact, I wonder if it was the best choice of spending my time. Great, now I have a truck with over 500,000 miles that still runs because I invested my own time, sweat, and curses into it. I was minimizing the spending of money but maybe I could have been making money doing something else? Or spending more time learning about something I have a passion for. I would boil it down choices and figuring out what is the best bang for your buck. I do know I won't be changing any motors again in my life. Not because I don't know how to. I also know if I have any influence over my little nephew who like so many boys is automobile obsessive, I will try and steer him away of being as intimate with cars and fixing/fixating on them as I did for awhile. I think it kept me poorer in my twenties than anything else. Sure, someone could point out that if a person has passion enough for vehicles they can turn it into a career. Yes, but...! A regret maybe.

Let's put this whole thing into some sort of perspective.

What is the actual mindset here?

Are you capable, in a pinch, of actually doing some of these sort of tasks if the need arises, but choose to focus on other things (at the cost of possibly depending on others to do them for you), or are you of the opinion that such abilities have no value to you whatsoever?

The more things you know how to do, the more options you have when something unexpected happens (or even when normal day to day events happen).

To perpetuate one of the examples threading through the discussion, let's use the flat tire problem as an example.

Maybe luck and driver scheduling will always be in your favor, and you can always rely on AAA to fix your shit.

But maybe, in this instance, they can't (or they can't for several hours).

Now, let's point at the thing you feel has greater priority in your life than menial tire changing skills. If you're waiting 4 hours (or so) for someone else to come help you, that's 4 hours (or so) that you also can't really do what it is that you feel is more important than changing a tire (and that is notwithstanding any other issues, like being accosted by some passerby).

Your choice to be willfully ignorant has now put you in a position that actively interferes with what you believe is a more important focus.

It's all fine to say that you don't go out much, that you live in a big city with many available resources and so on, but do you really believe that will pertain in every possible circumstance that you might encounter?

I actually find this kind of discussion somewhat entertaining coming from people who are (or who present themselves to be) strong and independent.

Nothing says, "I'm not actually independent" like having to rely on an outside agency to do something for you, because you can't be bothered to learn it.

I'm not discounting the usefulness of those outside agencies. There are many things I know how to do (and have done in the past) that I still pay someone else to do, because it's more valuable for me to do so, and a better use of my time.

Nonetheless, it's the difference between dependence and independence. It's the difference between saying, "it makes good sense for me to offload these tasks to someone else, even though I know how to do them," and saying, "knowing how to do these tasks is a waste of my time."

As a matter of basic principle, Heinlein was absolutely correct (despite your derision).

It may (hopefully, even) not be actually necessary to actually have to be fully self sufficient, but it is an unmitigated good to be *able* to be fully self sufficient, if needed.

It's the difference between saying, "it makes good sense for me to offload these tasks to someone else, even though I know how to do them," and saying, "knowing how to do these tasks is a waste of my time."

Exactly. Everyone seems to be getting a bit hung up on the flat tire example, which I guess is easy to dismiss, but there are so many other things in life where it's nice to have some knowledge, even if it isn't much, and even if you don't use it a lot. Otherwise, yes, dependence. That's almost unavoidable, and has been for a long time, but that's no reason not to try to reduce it. I think that's what Heinlein was getting at - at least attempt to be able to do things yourself. You won't get there, but you can try. I read it more as a challenge than a list of actual things to learn.

SwissArmyD claims a gender difference: he's never seen a man who rejected a skill list on principle. I wonder if that is because men are more confident to claim expertise in absence of much experience and so are less challenged by such lists.

If asked, I would say that I don't sew. However, I regularly re-attach buttons and fix hems or holes in clothing. I also know how to read a pattern and operate a sewing machine. However, I tend to define "sewers" as people like my mother, who made my wedding dress. Many of the posters here are asserting their sewing aptitude based on button attachment.

And again, it's not about the tire. No one said learn to do everything. That's not possible. But having an appreciation for things outside your core skill-set is handy.

Astra, I agree with you (second paragraph that is, not first). I wouldn't define myself as a sewer either (I know some pretty good dressmakers). But there's being a expert, and being totally helpless, and there's somewhere in between, which is where I would prefer to be rather than be totally dependent on others. No one has the time to be an expert in everything, but at least I've got something of a clue outside my comfort zone.

Well, what skills you need to learn depends to a considerable extent on where you choose to live. If you live in New York, it pays to learn how to parallel park. Living in Alabama, that's a skill I don't need often. On the other hand, the New Yorker probably doesn't need to know how to use a chain saw. I do, because we live in a wooded area, and if I have to leave early to get to the airport (3 AM!), and there was a storm the night before, there's a pretty good chance that there will be a tree across the road and I'll have to clear it.

And, we all have a lot of skills and knowledge that aren't essential to survival. I doubt that I will ever have someone point a gun in my face and threaten that they will shoot me unless I can tell them who the last 25-game winnning pitcher in the National League was. (My response will be that wins and losses for pitchers are not a meaningful or useful stat, and that he should be paying more attention to ERA, K/BB ratio, and advanced stats like fielding-independent pitching and BABIP. Once I've bored him to sleep, I'll grab his gun and run.)

But just so you know, the answer is Steve Carlton, who had 27 wins in 1972.

"And again, it's not about the tire. No one said learn to do everything. That's not possible. But having an appreciation for things outside your core skill-set is handy."

Ltw, is exactly right.

Here's the thing, you don't have to be Gordon Fucking Ramsay to claim you can cook and you don't have to be Frank Lloyd Wright to design and build a one room storage shack which while qualifying as a building isn't "extremely complex".

"Why learn math when I have a calculator?"

"Why learn to spell when I have spell check?"

Same mentality. Over-reliance on others (or tech) for tasks that are not difficult. Fixing a flat is not an emergency. (excepting geography -- bad neighborhood, high incline roadway, etc.)

"I can attach a button or mend a sweater. I don't sew." - Amy

Yes, yes you do. We have a winnah! The definition of "Sew" is:
sew
verb \ˈsō\
sewed sewn or sewed sew·ing
Definition of SEW
transitive verb
1
: to unite or fasten by stitches
2
: to close or enclose by sewing
intransitive verb
: to practice or engage in sewing

same with cooking, or MANY of these other things...

the question is, WHY DO YOU THINK YOU DON'T?

I found something interesting in what Astra said: "I wonder if that is because men are more confident to claim expertise in absence of much experience..."

I find this instructive in mindset. I don't presume to claim expertise in anything.

But that is not the same as knowing HOW to do something. I could build you a nice shed, this very day, give me another day, I'll have it wired. another, insulated, another plumbed...

Give me a couple of weeks and I'll have a nice little cabin for ya. It's not a mansion, I'm not an expert. Nor am I an expert in rebuilding engines, or making robots, or Schwartzwalderkirchetorte.

These are just things that I have done, in some cases many times. I have sewn many buttons and patched many holes, but I don't make my own clothes. Does this mean I can't sew? I could certainly follow a pattern, as I have for many things I have built, including CAKE. mmmm, CAKE.

So where the frell does this "I don't sew, I don't cook." Crap come from?

Of course you do, and of course you have. You can do it today if you felt like it, but, you have other priorities. Yup. Me too, haven't built an engine in years, but I am reasonably sure the laws of physics haven't changed, such that bolts no longer hold things together. And heay I know they are starting to glue stuff together, making it impossible to rebuild. Fools.

What seems the oddest to me is acting as if, because you no longer have time, you suddenly have lost the ability to deduce how a thing is done. Or is it just beneath you to know this stuff?

Everyday, I gain experience in doing a myriad of things, some well, and some only just barely good enough... and some I never try again. Yet IT'S ALL EXPERIENCE. Sometimes it comes in handy, and I'm sure there are things I will never need to know again... but they all make you up, they all contribute.

Maybe that's the difference in mindset. I know how to sew. For survival. How's that?

My Mom likes to tell the story about how I was not interested in learning to read when I was in first grade. This was obviously of some concern to her and she asked me about why I was fighting it so much. What tickles her to this day was my very matter of fact response..I don't need to learn to read because it serves no purpose. Reading is a useless waste of my time and I'd rather play with my friends.

Of course, I did learn to read and just a couple of years later Mom's new problem was how to force me out of the house since I was completely engrossed in a book. A problem that continues to this day, just ask my wife.

Now reading is obviously more important than the tire change example that keeps being bandied about but I didn't know that at six. What I know now is that continuing to learn new things, some of which may seem useless to me right now, is not a waste of time even if I never use what I learned again.

same with cooking, or MANY of these other things...

the question is, WHY DO YOU THINK YOU DON'T?

I found something interesting in what Astra said: "I wonder if that is because men are more confident to claim expertise in absence of much experience..."

I find this instructive in mindset. I don't presume to claim expertise in anything.

But that is not the same as knowing HOW to do something.

Good point, Swiss.

I'm listening to Amy's radio show on procrastination and the discussion on the difference between the fixed mindset and the growth mindset is apropos. I tend to feel uncomfortable claiming competence unless I have expertise (a consequence of perfectionism) whereas it's much more healthy to embrace an attitude that skills are continually gained and failure on a task is not failure as a person. (Great show, by the way, Amy.)

It has been interesting watching the tension between generalist and focused expertise play out in faculty hires in my field (astrophysics). There are those who believe that people with broad expertise can slot into numerous research paths and will be useful to a department and nimble in responding to shifts in research trends. There are others who believe that new hires should be narrowly focused on a single research topic because those are the ones who achieve ground-breaking results. A healthy department would have a mix, IMO, but as the money gets tight and fewer tenure-track jobs are available, the latter viewpoint is winning out. Everyone is hoping to hire the next superstar.

I sew in the sense that I can thread a needle, put a button back on, and close a ripped hole. I CHOOSE not to sew more than that. I can do it. I have done it. But it takes valium to make me WANT to do it.

As for changing tires? Ick. Anything automotive is something I don't want to do. It gets black stuff all over my hands. I've not wanted to for so long that I can't.

Amy's right. We can't all know how to do everything. Do what you like, what you want to do, and leave the other stuff for the ones who like it.

Oh, and I've done my own taxes, the taxes of my daughter and all her friends, an a few relatives for 35 years. But I'm an accountant. Not a tax accountant, but close enough that I know the rules (and always buy Turbo Tax to help with the gray areas).

"I also don't claim expertise unless I'm truly good at something." Amy.

Me neither. At what point in time did the question become that?

I thought the question was about knowing HOW to do something, NOT being an expert at doing a thing.

We have words for those things. Being an expert at cooking is called being a Chef. Being an expert at sewing is called being a Tailor [or seamstress if you like]

Being an expert at fixing machines is called being a mechanic.

"Being able to make a steak, green beans, omelets, and the best cup of coffee you will have in your entire life is not the same as cooking."

This may be true in your own mind, but I think for most people that would CLEARLY be called cooking, and while I will always eat food cooked by my sainted mother, she doesn't call herself a chef... rather, a cook.

Astra has certainly helped with direction here on the way people look at things... as a generalist, it often mystifies me when people will not bridge one area of knowledge to another...
:shrug:
I've always felt like with a little encouragement and maybe a protip or two, people can move into NEW areas of knowledge, for happiness or survival... and perhaps they will discover that they can BECOME an expert in an area that hadn't occurred to them.
Prolly just the way I was raised.

I would say that most of us do not claim expertise unless we do happen to be an expert but the idea that being able to make a steak, green beans, and omelettes is not the same as cooking is assinine.

You do not have to be an expert for your abilites in a subject or skill to be worthwhile and of use. I cook dinner four days a week and would never claim to be a Michelin Chef but I do claim I can cook.

"I've always felt like with a little encouragement and maybe a protip or two, people can move into NEW areas of knowledge, for happiness or survival... and perhaps they will discover that they can BECOME an expert in an area that hadn't occurred to them.
Prolly just the way I was raised."

Lot of us were raised that way, Swiss. I intend to raise my boy that way. Learn new skills and subjects until the day you die.

About the only thing Dean Wormer got right.

As for changing tires? Ick. Anything automotive is something I don't want to do. It gets black stuff all over my hands. I've not wanted to for so long that I can't.

So we're stuck on the tire analogy. Sigh. A few months ago I walked over the road to the shops at 10pm or so and a couple were standing round their car flapping their hands, waiting for help, which was an hour or so away. It was an obvious dead battery, so I fetched my car, jump-started theirs - and then had to explain to the guy not to stop the engine till they were home and had it parked somewhere safe. And that it probably wouldn't start the next day, because the battery was probably fucked and it was only running on the alternator. (It was a nice modern car too, unlike my 16 year old shitbox. But batteries die, often unexpectedly).

Am I a mechanic? No, of course not. But this is basic stuff. They could drive but had no fucking idea how the car actually worked. You may as well say (although then we couldn't read it), I choose not to operate a computer.

You can not want to do it all you like. But as a few people have pointed out, that means accepting you're dependent.

Amy is totally not going to be on my home team during the zombie apocalypse.

I'm a huge fan of learning useful skills, even if I lack the expert touch in many areas.

Lot of us were raised that way, Swiss. I intend to raise my boy that way. Learn new skills and subjects until the day you die.

I was raised that way too, causticf. Perhaps being the eldest of four helped. I remember being pissed off my sister (third sibling) wasn't expected to mow the lawn when 12 years old like I did. I can't remember a time when I wasn't trying to help out with something round the house.

Good luck with your boy. Teach him to shoot, cook, iron, and to be a gentleman when it's appropriate and a pain in the ass when necessary :)

I was the eldest of three, Ltw. My parents gave us all chores around the house that included cleaning and cooking meals for the family every week while I also got to milk the cow twice a day, mow the pasture with a used John Deere, and trim the ditches with a weedeater. My siblings got to feed the chickens, pigs when we had them, and weed the garden.

I don't have the 40 acres to give him all those experiences but he will learn to shoot, cook, iron, mow, and most importantly be a gentleman.

I only had a few acres to look after (market garden area, house was on two acres and we leased the land out). Mind you, a bit of time picking peas and planting seedlings focuses your mind wonderfully on finding a better way to earn a living.

I'm also dependent on a doctor to remove my appendix. I'd rather devote my time to writing than attend med school, though, thanks.

So because you can't remove an appendix you should know nothing about first aid? That's just lazy. That's comparing first response, getting a patient breathing again, or stopping a bleed, to surgery. Which is roughly the equivalent to changing a flat versus replacing the engine. You don't have to attend med school to learn basic first aid, just like you don't have to be a mechanic for simple car maintenance.

I'm also dependent on a doctor to remove my appendix. I'd rather devote my time to writing than attend med school, though, thanks. -- Amy Alkon at April 9, 2013 7:05 PM

Here's an anecdote that perfectly relates to this:

When I was 16 I jammed my middle toe into a wall. My mother took me to the emergency room the next day. The ER took X-Rays and couldn't find a crack. So the prescription was here is some surgical tape, cotton balls and here is how you splint toes. Stay off your feet. The doctor indicated that a crack or sprain the answer was the same.

Fast forward five years and I'm now USAF. I walked into a wall in the middle of the night and it felt about the same way.

So I hobble down to the base hospital and sick call. I ask for some gauze and tape. They say I have to see a doc. My pay rate is about $17/hr. The clerks on the desk are about $13/hr. The doc is about $25/hr. I wait for about 2.5 hours. The clerks take about 20 minutes getting the data in. The doc finally gets me in, and says (verbatim) "You either cracked it or jammed it. Do you want X-Rays?" The answer was no, and I was handed gauze, tape and a prescription for heavy duty Motrin™.

So no, I can't do an appendix, but I can tell a broken toe and the remedies.

Your comments:

I am an urban girl.
And why should I learn to change a diaper?
Why would I be on the road at 3am?

Just in here these are your comments. Those all indicate a perfect world.

As cheesy as it was did you ever watch any of the the disaster movies like Earthquake?

I've had to donate plasma to have food for two weeks between temp jobs. The state changed the law that my car was no longer under the BS EPA checks. I had to ride the bus to go work for a year and a half until I found a used "legal" car. Several times the sub driver ran an hour early for the route. I had to walk miles, and was still late to work. And I have had to do many repairs to vehicles and homes because I couldn't just delegate it. The alternator that costs $39 and some elbow-grease from AutoZone™ is still cheaper than the $189 from going to a shop.

Yes -- you had to sleep on a door with a sleeping bag as you pursued your career. I've had to do any job I could do to survive along with my family at the time.

So I have absolutely no sympathy for willful ignorance. You, and the original author keep claiming that willful ignorance is a virtue. I can never look at it that way. I may not be an expert in everything. I am always seeking to learn more.

"So I have absolutely no sympathy for willful ignorance. You, and the original author keep claiming that willful ignorance is a virtue. I can never look at it that way. I may not be an expert in everything. I am always seeking to learn more."

Gonna have to agree with this.

Despite all of the abuse of the 'changing a tire' theme, the crux of the matter is the apparent, outright, disdain for knowledge that doesn't suit your sensibilities.

You may not want to learn to remove your own appendix (nor would I), but being able to have some idea that it's causing a problem would be nice (and also a good first step toward having the expert take care of it).

When I was a teenager, I came within a couple of hours of dying of just that very issue, *because* no one in my family considered some not too terrible stomach pain to be that kind of issue.

This isn't just about changing a tire, or sewing a button, or foraging for meatloaf.

It is my utter contempt for the idea that some knowledge is so unimportant that it shouldn't be bothered with (and I'm not talking about woo or pseudoscience, I'm talking about actual, useful skills).

Maybe you'll never actually *have* to change a tire, or kill a zombie, or accurately identify what's causing the noise in your car when it fails to work.

Maybe AAA will *always* be only 30 minutes away (or maybe they won't, here's a bet, are you willing to bet your life that they will always meet that standard in the future, regardless of any conceivable circumstance?).

The energy and brain activity cost of knowing how to do simple tasks (sewing, tire change, and so on), are utterly minimal. Requires even less mental engagement than watching NOVA on PBS.

We're not talking rocket science or graduate school here. Knowing *how* to do many of the kind of things under discussion here isn't that hard (maybe they're physically hard, which matters, but knowing isn't that hard).

There are tons of things that I know how to do that I don't actually do myself any longer. It makes more sense (time and money wise) to let someone else do them.

But, knowing how to do them means that I have the tools to make sure those others I hire actually do the job correctly.

I'm not saying that those kind of simple tasks are the ones you should focus on, or even the only things that matter.

I'm saying that more knowledge is *always* better than less knowledge.

There's nothing at all wrong with focusing the biggest part of your attention on what is the highest priority in your life.

There's everything wrong with the idea that exercising the highest priority in your life means you get to dismiss, out of hand, any other useful skill.

Nobody says that you actually *have* to do these kind of things, but you're only cheating yourself if you don't know *how* to do these kind of things.

If you have more knowledge, especially more diverse knowledge, you have more options, both in normal day to day life, and in the event of unusual and unexpected circumstances.

I certainly don't know everything, or how to *do* everything. But I'm not going to dismiss out of hand the idea that I can learn to do something instead of always expecting the ideal situation where someone else will do it for me.

I don't care that you don't *want* to do it. I care that you seem to believe that it has no importance, whatsoever.

The first is prioritizing, the second is willful ignorance.

Never figured you for willful ignorance.

"But it's anything but.

I do more for my future by investing weekly in a radio show I do free of charge and spend many hours on than I ever would by learning to change a tire."

Actually, it is *exactly* that.

Even if you never have to actually do it, learning to change a tire (or diaper, or spark plug, etc.) doesn't involve the commitment of time that getting a doctorate would involve.

Anyone with even average intelligence can get a handle on the basics of simple tasks like tire changing in just a few minutes.

Where's the issue here?

Nothing wrong with letting others do the actual work, but why would you trumpet your ignorance of such a simple task?

It's one thing to honestly not know how to do something, it's entirely another to decide that knowledge isn't even worth the effort.

For someone who is normally so mentally acute, your dismissal of the validity of knowing how to perform simple tasks is, frankly, somewhat disturbing.

"I am always seeking to learn more"

Uh -- this is what I spend my time doing.

Many people here seem, well, IGNORANT of the fact that I'm not calling for ignorance but for spending one's time in meaningful ways.

I did a radio show with Dylan Evans in risk intelligence. This is the crux of it -- analyzing the likelihood that something will happen and responding accordingly. I don't randomly go into hysterics and spend my time running around learning how to operate a chain saw and change tires. Life is about tradeoffs. The likelihood that I, living as I do, where I do, will need to change a tire or use a chainsaw to chop down a tree...well, it's highly unlikely.

Again, understanding the probabilities, I choose to put my time to better use. Saturday, for example, I spent the entire day reading studies and improving my understanding of statistics. THAT is wise use of my time.

The thing is, I'm not actually saying that you, personally, need to invest in this kind of skill (and tire changing is becoming the flying monkey of the thread, ultimately, the argument goes to any ancillary skill that may come in handy). There's always a balance between what you need to do and what you might do.

The impression coursing through this thread by the naysayers is the idea that (insert group here) should treat any idea of learning a particular skill as an affront to their integrity or their schedule.

This really isn't about whether you want to change your own tire (but I do wonder what you would do if you actually *had* to [not regarding the jeopardy of you actually doing so] ).

And, how does learning something new (even if you personally don't think it has value) constitute 'wasting time?'

Wasting time is watching 'Dancing with the Stars', or 'Honey Boo Boo.'

Gaining a new skill, however likely (or unlikely) it is to be used, is rarely a waste of time.

Maybe other things are more imperative, but learning is *always* good.

I don't glorify wasting time, I glorify new experiences and expanding what I know. I don't consider the idea of learning a new skill to be wasting time. I can only devote a certain amount of time, per day, to what I do for a living. Past that, I gain less than it costs me.

Doing other stuff in the rest of the time (when I'm not sleeping), recharges me, and actually makes me better at my main profession.

For me, it can be building a cabinet, changing the oil in my car, planting heirloom tomatoes, trying out a new recipe, skiing, playing tennis, and so on, but doing (and learning) other things actually makes me better at my job (writing software). I get much more done in 8 hours of programming and 6 hours of fun (and learning) than I would *ever* get out of 14 hours of programming.

Different people work differently. I don't have an issue with that.

What I have an issue with is the idea that some knowledge is unecessary, just because you don't need to know it right now.

Obviously, focus on what needs to be focused on now. Just don't denigrate a skill set because you don't think you need it at this moment.

Hear, hear, Tim.

There's more to this.

You might not appeal to ignorance and its bliss, but people who choose not to learn also choose unwisely. They choose not to learn about money, self-defense, etc., and then are easy marks for criminals, whether they be obvious thugs or activists after their liberty and money.

Have you seen the videos of the petition to ban Dihydrogen Oxide?

Blame a President for a Congressional duty, blame the cops for not protecting you, blame a "public servant" for being stupid, blame anyone else for being victimized, and you can point right back at your own poor choices - for others have made things happen for them, while you groove right along ignoring reality in favor of a chosen activity.

Going a bit far there Rad.

"Life is short. I don't waste mine."

That is the puzzling attitude, that others are wasting their life by having diversified skill sets.

Although I know what you're getting at. It's not about the damn tire. Maybe that's not such a critical skill anymore. CPR is though. Something I hope never to have to use, but I'm very glad I know.

You all keep glorifying wasting time, as if it makes one a better person.

Being able to be self-reliant *is* being a better person.

"I'm disappointed to see the level of assumptions and irrational thought in this thread."

I would reply that many of us are feeling the same way about your responses. As calculated as you may feel your decisions on some of the mentioned skills are, you don't seem to be able to consider that those decisions may be wrong.

Amy lives in earthquake land. And the first things to be affected will be the power grid and phones and water lines. Just sayin...

I was in Jackson Hole Wy once, about ten years ago, and a wind storm had taken down the cell phone tower. The land lines didn't work either, for about two days.

One of the good things about having a lot of basic task knowledge, is it allows you to weigh your options, in any given situation, and decide if you can do something yourself, do nothing and wait for the situation to resolve itself (this is sometimes an incredibly good option, that many people overlook) or do you need to call in a professional?

If your automatic solution to every problem, real or imagined is to dial the proverbial 911 (or AAA, pizza delivery, psychic hotline) there will come a time, when you get put on hold, and your fall back position, becomes a very costly option, either to you personally or your fellow citizens.

If you don't have the task knowledge to do even a basic cost benefit analysis, you will find yourself making impulsive costly decisions, a great deal more often, than those who do.

This is probably why some on this board find a flippant answer like "whip out my credit card and dial AAA" so grating.

It reflects a Pollyanna like nievete, that the "world is my oyster" (and it is always going to be that way baby).

I've worked on my cars and changed my own tires and I own a AAA card - and I've used it, even when a greasemonkey went into spluttering redneck outrage over a man calling for roadside assistance.

Hard for some people to believe that trashing an expensive suit to save the tow driver from doing his job just isn't on my agenda.

So yeah, I can do stuff. I can also pay others to do it for me when it's appropriate.

Yes, I'm pretty smart too, and not just book smart.

At this point, we could just trade IQ scores, and settle this argument, but as others have pointed out, it stopped being about the specific task of changing a tire a long time ago.

A lot of really smart people have had situations end badly because they thought being "smart" was all they needed, and they could learn on the fly, and adapt to any situation.(or that they would be smart enough to never voluntarily put themselves in a situation where they would be vulnerable)

I encountered this attitude almost every day among individuals under 30 although it is much more rare in men over 50.

Reading a lot of history has taught me this is a poor strategy for long term survival for both individuals and groups.

People on this board have pointed out that tires fail, cell phones fail, and AAA sometimes fails to show up.
The longer the chain is of things that must go right in order for a problem to be solved, and the more risky the consequences of failing to solve it in the timely matter are, the more prepared you need to be.

Tire changing is not that important in and of itself, as you can drive on a flat tire for quite a while. Your only cost will be ruining the tire, damaging the rim, and then maybe the axle, but it would be worth it to get out of a bad neighborhood where you should not be getting out of the car.

Again, it is not specifically about the tire changing (which I know how to do, but have
not done by myself in quite a while)

What I do know is essential information that makes the job easier and quicker if I ever end up in a bind where "someone" needs to change the tire. This includes, where the spare is, where the jack is, where the lug nut wrench is, where to place the jack, etc...)

People are genetically programmed to believe themselves more capable, than objective testing indicates that they are.

Saying that you will "never" be in a situation that you would not need to deal with something on your own, is wishful thinking (and flippant)

Do you carry a gunshot survival kit? Would you even have a clue about what to do?

I live in a very low profile area that the odds of me ever needing it is in the infinitesimal. Do I have at least a decent clue of what to do? Yes.

You live in a major metropolitan area. Do you know how to react? Your odds of being in a gunshot zone are much more probable than needing to learn to change a tire and work a chain saw.

So what would you do if you are in One Life Natural Foods when guys with shotguns charge in? What if a fellow customer was shot?

Sorry, but this isn't about the fucking tire (although that poor tire has been pretty seriously abused at this point).

Your post started with the existence of a post about 50 things a woman should be able to do, and the butthurt response of another woman arguing against that list.

I didn't actually read that particular list. I don't actually care about that particular list. I don't actually care if most of the items on that list truly constitute skills that are (or aren't) useful in the average, everyday, setting of most people reading the list.

My argument is, and always has been, that I am opposed to the idea that some skills are so unimportant that a person shouldn't even bother to know what's involved, let alone be able to do them.

You couch your argument in terms of risk assessment and good use of your time.

There's nothing inherently wrong with making that assessment.

But (leaving the damn tire out of it), how do you know what you might need in the future?

No one can know everything. Choices have to be made.

But ... I've said it once, I'll say it again.

THE MORE YOU KNOW, THE MORE OPTIONS YOU HAVE.

How is that so hard to understand?

I'm feeling like most of the naysayers here are reveling in their ignorance, like it's a scout badge of some sort.

Possible real life example:

You live in an area where an earthquake *will* happen (not may happen, but will happen, only the time is up for debate).

When (not if) it happens, do you know how to find food and fresh water? Have you planned for the event?

Do you know how to shut off your gas at the meter if a pipe joint fails in your house?

Can you put out a small fire?

Figuring out the answer (and having a usable plan) for all of the above examples is the work of an hour or two of research and planning ahead.

For all of your protestations about the situations you won't find yourself in, sometimes the situation comes to you.

Either you are prepared, or you are not.

When you turn your nose up at some skill or knowledge because you think you'll never need it, you might very well regret it.

Again, I'm not saying you have to devote some time to a *particular* skill or set of knowledge.

What I'm saying is that you should not discount the option of learning a skill, just because you think you don't need it *now*.

You made two very basic assumptions that I don't share.

1. Paris is a "safe" place. Yes, I have been there, read the news, and know that is is not. Like London, certain districts are effectively run by Sharia, and the police don't go there.

2. Your communication skills trump any dangerous situation, and that speaking French will allow you to solve every problem.

Again the fundamental premise appears to be, that in a city no emergency will ever occur that you can not communicate or (think) your way out of.

"I am an urban girl. I go to New York City and Paris. I like cities. I don't drive in them"

You seem to wield that viewpoint as if it were some sort of magical charm that will protect you, no matter what.

In those urban areas, do you know which parts of them are safe, and which you should avoid?

And, if so, how did you come by that knowledge?

Maybe by devoting some time to it?

And, apart from the obvious kind of things like where it's safe to go, how prepared are you (really) for the kind of things that may happen?

You like to poke a stick in the side of those who believe in (or even worship) something that they cannot prove actually exists.

That's not all that much different from the attitude that you seem to project with the views in this thread. You believe (have faith) that you won't be detrimentally affected by your choice to reject some particular skill set (you can say 'risk assessment', but you aren't really assessing risk, you're making a decision based upon what you *perceive* to be a risk, not what actually *is* a risk).

You even make excuses for why it isn't necessary for you to learn the skill.

And that's the thing. For all of those you spit over the fire for choosing to not accept what you call the rational worldview, you make pretty much the same mistake they do.

You look at some bit of knowledge or information or so forth, and you decide, out of hand, that it does not comport with your worldview, and so you reject it out of hand.

I really don't give a fuck if your first thought on seeing a flat tire is to treat it like a doughnut and try to eat it, rather than putting on the spare.

What annoys me is the fact that someone who appears to be otherwise amenable to the value of knowledge chooses to pitch it to the curb when it doesn't suit the narrative.

True story here. I saved a dogs life once by knowing how to change a tire.

Teenage girl backs over her own dog, pulling out of the garage at night. It was a Toyota Corolla, and the 40 pound dog was literally stuck under the chassis of the car. Girl, is crying, my young son was crying, and saying Mom, what do we do?

I said, "well if we try and drive the car off the dog, we will likely hurt her worse". The dog was awake and crying but looked like she had a broken leg.
I thought about it, realized calling 911 for a dog, was not an option, and told my 14 year old son to pull the jack out of our car, and raise the other car enough with the jack so we could pull the dog out and take her to the vet.
It worked, and the dog lived (and prospered) for several more years.
To echo Tim's point. You never know, when an application of a basic concept or skill, is going to be needed, sometimes, not in the way you imagined using it.

Wow.

You're clinging to the example of changing a tire like your life depends on it.

Gotta news flash for you.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING TIRE!

Put the tire back in your closet and let it be.

This entire argument is about nothing more than your absolute disregard for skills or knowledge that doesn't directly advance your immediate goals.

You are unthinking about this.

You refuse to even consider that even the simple concept of learning something that doesn't meet your immediate needs has any value at all.

I really do not *FUCKING* care if you, yourself, feel that it offers you no value to learn something that isn't another example of parsing a gerund.

You claim to value knowledge and rational thought, but you demonstrate, in this thread, that your commitment to that ideal doesn't extend to something you're not interested in.

In that regard, you're actually no different than all of the religious and political morons you rail against in pretty much every other blog you post.

Hypocrite much?

You're on about tires again.

Must be a fetish of some sort.

You spew about probablities and decisions.

I don't care if you think that changing a tire (fetish) or some other form of knowledge has some use for you in your current circumstance (and I don't wear panties, thank you).

You're giving undue focus to the idea of changing a tire.

You couldn't miss the point more horribly if you aimed at the barn in the next county.

You're clinging to the example of changing a tire, as if it's some kind of lifeline to keep you from having to examine the actual argument.

Nobody in this thread gives a squirrel flying fuck whether or not you can (or want to) change a tire.

It's *NOT* about the fucking tire.

Quit pretending that the tire matters.

When the tire is removed from the discussion, the real issue is about what constitutes the set of skills and knowledge that provides a good balance for the average person (and who isn't an idiot who thinks that knowing something other than 'what is a preposition' is somehow useless).

Knowing how to do something is *not* a personal fault. Choosing to learn how to do something is not an existential failing.

Please indicate to those of us listening how spending some small portion of our attention to learing a new skill is somehow an affront to reasonable people?

BTW: If your answer to this post contains 'change a tire', you lose.

"What's happened here is that a lot of people have gotten all butthurt that I don't share their panic about learning to change a tire, a skill that I have little probability of needing ever. Again, this may be a necessary skill in your life, but it is not likely to be a skill I will require."

What's with the fucking tire?

At most, it's an example of something that is a good skill to have, just in case.

If you can't change it, it probably won't kill you, and help is probably available in fairly short order.

All of this focus on any one particular skill (tire, plumbing, what the fuck ever), is missing the point.

It isn't about some particular bit of knowledge. It's about the idea of knowledge.

The idea that having more knowledge is better than having less knowledge.

The idea that being able to do 10 things is better (for the most part) than being able to do 5 things.

The viewpoint that having some idea of what to do in some given circumstance is better than wandering around blindly, in the vain hope that some solution will magically appear.

Does any rational person actually believe that those are such a bad thing?

And...

You've managed to not answer a big question:

How does being an 'urban girl', somehow magically protect you from all unforeseen circumstances?

Is there a special 'Harry Potter' spell of protection for the 'urban girl?'

Also, where does the TSA fit in here? They're clearly part of the urban travelling experience (you can't go from LA to NYC or Paris without having to play with them).

Do they make you safe, or mitigate your potential lack of knowledge about the area you're travelling to?

[chewbacca defense]

Oh, look, it's a tire!

[/chewbacca defense]

Okay, gonna have to admit to arguing for the sake of arguing in the last few posts (a couple of extra margaritas will do that to you).

In a sort of a final statement:

The original article (the 50 things a woman should know how to do) kind of stretches the point, since there really isn't any specific set of things someone should always be able to do.

The response to that article is also somewhat lacking, given that there's no reason to be butthurt that someone else thinks it's good to be able do things like that.

I really don't think that anyone is arguing that everyone has to be able to perform (or refuse to perform) some specific task.

While I'm willing to accept that others feel like it's a waste of time to learn something they may feel they'll never have to do, I don't understand it.

For me, learning something new, even if I don't need to use it right away, is worth the effort. The value of learning a new ability is worth more than whatever actual utility it may have.

And serendipity comes into play to some degree. Things that I learn outside of my day to day work can often give me more insight into that day to day work than the mere act of simply applying more time to that work.

I may have been a bit egregious in my painting of the 'naysayers' as being opposed to learning, but the basic idea kind of still stands.

Whether you use it or not, knowing how to do something is almost always better than not knowing how to do something, even if you would never actually have to do it.

Just to be a bee in the bonnet --

As an urban girl do you carry a gunshot first aid kit and know how to use it. ;-) I know that will never happen anywhere near an urban setting like L.A. And it is totally useless knowledge.

I just know the tire is deflated at this point.