What feminism should be teaching is you can't bring a kid into this world because you are lonely..

A mother is not sufficient because if you feminists have sons then you are telling them their role is a transient one, not as important and certainly not permanent.

Men are not disposable. Don't teach your sons that or daughters to expect that.

However women do seem to look down on those of us that don't want children. With saddened eyes, and pity. As if the meaning of life will permanently elude us.

To those women I want to say FUCK OFF. Just because a watermelon head came out of your pussy don't mean you've found the meaning of shit.

I don't really see having children as enslaving women (or men for that matter). It is necessary for the continuation of society and is a greater good (emphasis on the word a as there are many ways to contribute to society which do not include having children). Someone has to take one for the team, so to speak.

Is it just me or did you already cover this piece 3 or 4 years ago?

Also notice how the woman who doesnt want a child, still doesnt want the childs father to raise her

I'm surprised she talked to her mom BEFORE she became pregnant. I certainly would not speak to a person who told me I had ruined their life and was a millstone around their neck.

How horrible must it have been to be the child who was constantly reminded that she "enslaved" her mother and made her life miserable! What a terrible thing to do to a child.

Even worse, imagine how completely tragic it would be if this horrible "mother" had had a son.

"Feminism has much to answer for denigrating men and encouraging women to seek independence whatever the cost to their families."

Gospel truth, right there.

I've disappointed my feminist mother by not being a high-powered businesswoman, but she's very pro-motherhood. She's from the "You can have it all" generation of the 80s (I was born in 77). So she doesn't see why my motherhood should stop be from my fabulous career.

Truth is, I didn't have much of a fabulous career to begin with, so why not be with my kid and be happy?

She's from the "You can have it all" generation of the 80s (I was born in 77).

What I've observed in a lot of my feminist friends: There's a psychological tug of war between their desire to be good mothers and their desire for a stellar career. I think many are realizing you can't have it all, but feel as though they should. I don't really know many mothers who feel as though their children were mistakes, but many do seem bothered by the fact that their careers haven't gone as far as they had hoped.

As Walker points out in her piece, the women's movement, by disparaging women who want to be mothers, and motherhood in general, does harm to women who realize too late that mothers is what they very much wanted to be.
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Better to regret not having children than to regret HAVING them. Besides, there is no shortage of school-age kids to adopt - I suspect there never will be a shortage, sadly. (And it isn't always the birth parents' fault when their kids fall into that situation.)

Not to mention that global overpopulation is very much a problem right now - how much worse would it be if the women's movement HADN'T fought hard to make girls think twice before getting married and pregnant immediately after high school or so?

But, probably most importantly, feminists taught girls that, as an abandoned ex-housewife wrote in 1987: "If you lose your husband you can't go down to the employment center and apply for a new one!"

Note that "to lose" can include death, not just divorce.

It might not be a bad idea, if you think you might want kids, to think beyond "It's what I would find fulfilling," and go the distance to "What kind of world will they live in?"

Will your kid grow up in a safe neighborhood? Have enough to eat? Be able to get a job? Life isn't terrible everywhere in the world, but if it is terrible in your neck of the woods, or you're already on public assistance, please do us all a favor and improve your situation before you add children to it.

Growing up, I didn't think my dad enjoyed being a parent, and it seemed like he regretted it. That only made me respect his decision-making abilities a little less. I never wanted kids and share my dad's opinion of parenthood, so I can hardly hold it against him. However, I'm going to avoid making those mistakes myself.

And for everyone who is disappointed in how their work lives have turned out, that's because of the economy. Things weren't always this way, and it's not your fault. If you're turning to parenthood for fulfillment because work sucks, though, um ... just remember, it will most likely be worse for the kids you have. Lenona is right about population issues.

"think many are realizing you can't have it all, but feel as though they should"

I have observed the same MonicaP and they just don't seem as happy as my stay at home mom friends.

She's from the "You can have it all" generation

I never cease to be amazed how many women fell for that line of shit. Men never had it all, they had to sacrifice their family time and personal dreams to support their families financially. Many drove themselves to an earl grave doing so. How exactly did these women think they could have it all when no one in the history of the universe had managed to it?

Feminists en masse did not denigrate motherhood. Some of them did, and some didn't.

What a terrible thing to say to her very own little girl. How long I wonder did it take her to get over the feeling (and I'm sure terrible guilt) of being the cause of her mother's "slavery".

This is interesting. My wife (32) and I (41) went to a BBQ with some of my old Army buddies Saturday night. Several of my war buddies are considerably younger than I, in their late 20s and early 30s, and have young children who they brought to the BBQ. Honestly, some of the wives seemed overjoyed with their children while others seemed utterly overwhelmed and beaten down. I didn't get the impression from any of them, however, that they thought their kids were "millstones." They're just on the normal suburban track: jobs, hybrid cars, houses, kids, rinse, repeat.

I was pleased when my wife wanted to leave because there were too many mewling kids running around, though. 32 and absolutely no sign of Baby Rabies yet! Of course if she DOES come down with Baby Rabies, she'll need to go elsewhere. I like my DINK life the way it is, and have surgically ensured there will be no babies.

My wife grew up Mormon, where feminism is nearly nonexistent, and we're always surrounded by big families on her side. I will say that the Mormon moms on the whole seem to be completely content to be SAHMs, and the Mormon family dynamic generally works very well at molding decent, honest, productive citizens. On the other hand, she does often hear (generally unintentionally) crappy comments about neither of us having any desire to reproduce.

Lie and claim one of you is barren. Make then feel guilty for years

Lenona is pretty much wrong about everything, but most particularly about population issues; the expected doubling time for world population is "never".

I think modern feminism has run its course - it's no longer helping people, it's not improving their lives - it's largely now doing the opposite, harming people with bad philosophy and invalid moral principles (e.g. modern feminist obsessions such as trying to ban pornography or sex work) that actually work to violate women's rights, as well as promoting harmful negative values like desexualization (that border almost disturbingly now on becoming the same value system that promotes things like the burqa .. I have even started hearing feminists talk about the burqa as a good thing, it's chilling). Feminism has lost its way.

Feminism was useful for a certain purpose, at a certain stage in history. But I think it's time for new movements, fresh starts, thinking rationally and clearly about what makes sense, both ethically, and in terms of offering value to peoples lives. "Movements" and philosophies should help people lead BETTER, and more moral lives - not make it harder to do so.

On kids - I'm glad I had mine, but you definitely should no have them if you don't really want them. And I think it aaaalmost borders on child abuse of some sort, to deliberately become a single parent for no other reason than to make a point - it harms the child for no good reason other than the parent derives some weird satisfaction from hurting the child and setting the child back in life. Parenthood is tough - it's tough even for healthy partnerships of two - if you care about your kids, you do what's best for them.

"And I think it aaaalmost borders on child abuse of some sort, to deliberately become a single parent for no other reason than to make a point"

To be clear, I obviously don't mean those who are doing a good job of it, or who ended up in the situation by accident .. I just mean we should cast a bit of an extra eye of suspicion on those who very deliberately do it, while boldly claiming the physical impossibility that single parenting has no potential disadvantages for children.