The Ethicist is anything but...

So, because the man implies that his wife is a good gardener, it's all right for her to take clippings from a plant that isn't hers.

Well, I'm not a skilled gardener, and I'd like that plant, too. So, I'd like to see some evidence of Solomon's wife's bona fides as a skilled gardener. What school did she go to, for instance?

Otherwise, I'm taking clippings for myself, and there probably will be significant trauma to the plant when I do so.

Seems odd that this "skilled gardener" doesn't seem to know the name of this plant that she liked so much.

And what does she do if the clippings she stole don't work out so well? Can she go back for seconds?

What I would have done was take a picture of the plant, and bring it to a garden center or horticulturist and see if they could find one for me. Stealing is stealing, whether it's the entire plant or some clippings. At the very least they could have gone to the mall office and asked someone if they could have a couple cuttings. Sometimes the malls don't own the plants, they rent them from the company that they hire to take care of them. The people that service the plants are always trimming, watering and feeding them. I used to work for a company that did that (interior landscaping, it's called). I was always happy to give clippings to people who asked for them, it's not a big deal. But to just take them, without asking, is wrong.

Here's what I wrote in the comments section:

The Ethicist is about as ethical as a shoplifter.

It seems strange to me that this "skilled gardener" doesn't seem to know the name of this plant that she covets, or even if she can truly grow a new plant from the clippings she stole.

And what I especially find utterly amazing is that this soi-disant "Ethicist" doesn't hit upon the obvious solution.

What should they have done? Obviously, they could have gone to the management and asked about the plant that this skilled gardener didn't seem to know anything about. Then, once they had the name of the plant (whoever cares for the plants will likely know what it's called), they could looked it up on the internet and ordered one if their local florists didn't have it.

God forbid you should leave someone else's property alone, and actually take the necessary steps to honestly acquire something you want, rather than steal it.

I have a hard time believing they couldn't find the plant from an online nursery either.

I garden and I've been pretty lucky on the stealing front (though we did have a lovely stone Japanese lantern walk out of our front yard) but gardeners know that people seem to have no problem taking cuttings, vegetables, blooms, and even entire plants when they want to. This is no different.

How does the ethicist know there was a positive impact? The writer was bothered enough about it to write in. Sounds like a negative impact to me.

Stealing is stealing. I wish a mall guard had caught them, just for the embarrassment.

Then we could have had made some sort of vague "Les Miserables" connection. Done a musical, the whole treatment...oh well.

How do we assess an unethical act that has a positive impact? Does that positive result reverse the way we should perceive its inception?

If The Ethicist hadn't meant to let the LW (and his wife) off the hook, he wouldn't have needed to write that sentence. But it should serve to warn the reader that something nauseating is coming. Why? Well, consider:

- Unethical act with a positive impact? How excactly do we know that the impact is positive? All we know is the LW's wife cut a plant that wasn't hers to cut.

- But even if the plant didn't suffer, and the LW's wife really was a skilled gardener, we're still stuck with the idea that this couple should be able to do what they want, even with stuff that's not theirs. I'm sure The Ethicist wouldn't mind if somebody messed with his stuff.

How hard would it have been to ask the groundskeeper where they got the plant?

I think every single person who visits the mall should avail themselves of the same opportunity as the gardener's wife. When the plants are reduced to sticks, no one has done anything more than a "3" or "4" level of bad behavior.
I realize that my 'tragedy of the commons' example lacks a certain zing but I'll propose the idea anyway.

The letter writer is one of the diminishing pool of NYT readers, and the paper can't risk losing him by telling him he's in the wrong.

Plant pirates drive to the mall in cars.

This probably isn't the case with a mall plant, but: some plants are rare. I have seen a situation where someone had a unusual and attractive plant in their garden, near the sidewalk. Ultimately, they had to fence it off. All the people taking cuttings left it looking like it had the mange, and seriously endangered its health.

Plants have a value. Cuttings from plants have a value. Theft is just that. Had she asked the management, they almost certainly would have just given her permission.

As someone else said: The Ethicist isn't.

Not only that NicoleK, but the groundskeeper might have even offered them a cutting. This past Mother's Day I went to a plant nursery. The place was packed. Still, one of the workers heard me complain to my husband that all of the prickly pears were far larger than what I wanted. Next thing I know the employee is showing me a paddle he'd just cut off from one of the nearby plants and telling me it's a spineless prickly pear. Then he handed it to me and wished me a happy mother's day and walked off.

But no way I would have taken my own trimming.

Why couldn't they have contacted the mall management to ask about a cutting, or where they could get a similar plant. Even if it was a referral to an interior landscaper, I'm the landscaper would be glad to help them.

This seems like a seriously trivial first world problem. She took some cuttings. Bad if everyone did it, but everyone is not going to do it, so let's let it go. I'd rather talk about the ethics of forcing people to buy health insurance.

While I agree with momof4, there is something else to consider...

Even the nursery I frequent for my plants have tags on some that "prohibit" cutting or propagation. Some varieties of plants are "owned" by the people who bred them, and taking cuttings is like copying an MP3 file.

I do have some sympathy in that, should they have thought of asking somebody, it's not like malls have a front office you can visit. Customer Service desks do gift cards, gift wrap, stroller rentals, etc. It may not have been possible to find out who did the landscaping or find somebody to ask. That said, it was still wrong. Around here, some of the local garden clubs and commercial nurseries actually stage beautiful displays periodically in the malls. They own the plants and lend them to the mall in return for advertising (so it seems, anyway).

So, I'm with whomever said they should take a photo. Then visit the garden center or Mr. Google.

One other thought. That plant may not do well in that area outside, since nobody seems to carry it.

I've done it.

Still, completely unethical, and I felt as such, as should she.

What if she took the plant and left the cutting in the pot? Would that not be considered theft? Then what she did was steal and vandalize the plant.

Another example, I went up to your car and took a chunk out of your tire, the tire is not leaking yet but I made a weak spot. Maybe I am good at cutting tires, maybe not, I might have risked a blowout and you may need to buy a new tire early because of it. Same with the tree, what if it dies because the environment is not great? Let's face it, stores are never a great environment which is why plants are rotated out frequently.

Maybe they should charge her with plant murder...

A couple years ago, the Ethicist published a column basically saying it was ethical to use your neighbor's unsecured wifi connection because it wasn't really hurting anyone, so therefore it wasn't really stealing.

Maybe it's just that I used to do some legal work for a telecommunications company, but it seems to me it hurts your neighbor (because your feeding off his wifi will slow down his connection), and it hurts the telecommunications industry because you are getting a service for free, but you should be paying.

I guess if your neighbor doesn't catch you, it's OK to peep in his windows and watch him undress. Hey, if he doesn't know, it isn't hurting him, right?

I've wondered ever since that column -- how the hell is that guy qualified to offer ethical opinions?

Some time ago, Amy ran a column from the Ethicist in which he advised a man to stay out of it when his girlfriend revealed that she has a man paying for her children, keeping from him the fact that two of them aren't his.

I know we are, Amy, I was just making a point about the relative seriousness of the issue.

"Ethicists" in general are people I would never take advice from. They can work their way around to saying anything is ethical from some point of view.

Using your neighbors WiFi is stealing in my book. But are there seriously people who don't secure their WiFi in this day and age?

But are there seriously people who don't secure their WiFi in this day and age?

A lot. There are a few in my building alone.

This seems like a seriously trivial first world problem. She took some cuttings. Bad if everyone did it, but everyone is not going to do it, so let's let it go.

Thats what people said in the 50 about all the asshole moving to Phoenix and bringing their plants with them.

Now with a population pushing 4 million our humidity has spiked nearly 3,000% and we have the worst pollen season in the entire northern HEMISPHERE. There is a neighborhood next to my mothers place that has nothing but MAPLE trees in the middle of the mother fucking desert

Guess what, after a while everyone does it

This morning one of my local radio shows took calls from people who'd thieved, or would thieve. It was frightening. Several women called in and recounted former jobs at clothing stores and restaurants, where they took money from customers for returns and tickets, but never logged the transaction and pocketed the cash. Not one said they felt remorse, because the boss was a jerk, the job was stressful, and in one case, a woman PAID FOR A FUCKING TRIP TO EUROPE WITH THE CASH.

I'm not sure if this still happens, but many years ago I worked for a car rental company at the airport. If you ran a CC, and it told you to "pick-up card" (usually meaning it had been reported stolen), and you then submitted the card to the credit company, you got $50. Also, if somebody left their card on accident, and you mailed it in, you got $50. This didn't happen at my counter (to my knowledge), but some workers at other counters lost their jobs because they were picking up customers' cards (telling the customer it had been reported), and then submitting the cards as left behind to get the $50.

You know, I have a neighbor who lets her cats wander everywhere and one likes to poop on my front step. This does illustrate that the "out of sight out of mind" philosophy on ethics isn't really a good one.

Sure, nobody can see the harm, since I cannot see it. Really, just because YOU can't see it that doesn't mean nobody can see it!

So, do I lay a trap for the cat (haven't caught it in the act, but there's no other good suspect), or do I just return it to this neighbor's yard? Suggestions?

Save it until you have a few pounds, and then dump it all at once right on her door step so it falls in the house when she opens the door

So, do I lay a trap for the cat (haven't caught it in the act, but there's no other good suspect), or do I just return it to this neighbor's yard? Suggestions?

When I was a kid, we lived next door to a household that was, um, less than "spotless". They had a couple of dogs, and there was a 3-foot high, kind of a wire-grid fence between our backyards. Well, one of the dogs used to jump the fence, take a dump in our yard, and jump back over the fence into his yard! My dad didn't believe it until he actually saw it with his own eyes (we had been telling him for a couple of weeks, because my little brothers would step in it when they were outside playing, and then track it into the house. Mind you, we didn't own ANY animals at all just then). ANyway, we didn't have the money to put up a (bigger, better) fence at the time, so the next time my dad saw the dog do his thing, he went out there with a shovel, scooped it up, and threw it back over the fence. The guy comes running out of his house, all "hey, what the eff are you doin'?" and dad says "just putting it back where it came from." The next week, the guys wife comes over and offers to pay half for a new fence!

Not saying that will work in your case, Shannon, but sometimes drastic measures lead to satisfactory results.