Isn't there an implicit oxymoron in traditional Muslim attitudes to sex? They claim women are the weak ones, unable to renounce sexual activity because they're so driven to it. So shouldn't they be covering the men to remove temptation?

Hah - yes, under that logic, men should be going around blindfolded. But under Islam, women are possessions -- of their fathers, husbands, brothers.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/022-man-in-charge-of-woman.htm

Their stated goal is to destroy or at least enslave us, yet no one wants to listen or defend us.

But on the positive side, the Imams recently announced that between Memorial Day and Labor Day, women will be permitted to wear white burkas.

It always seems like a fear thing to me. Fear of women's sexual power, fear of their own weakness, fear of their woman leaving them if she was allowed to even talk to another man, fear of the other men themselves, fear fear fear.

Making men leave a festival because they were "too beautiful" and women might fall in love with them. Honestly. Feeeeaaaarrrr. (I only saw one photo of one of them. He really was pretty hot. If you like that dark, brooding sort of thing.)

And they don't seem to realize they're saying "We're weak. We should not be expected to have control because we're WEAK!"

"We're not opening the door to one cultural group only -- this is all females we're accommodating"

What utter crap. Modesty-minded Christians & Jews never demanded that dads be banned from watching their own daughters swim in Toronto's public pools. It's Muslims, and ONLY Muslims, who are being pandered to in this way.

And just to let you know what else Muslims in Toronto & vicinity are up to these days, here is video & transcript of a Brampton imam, Shaykh Faisal Hamid Abdur-Razak, preaching to his congregation that stoning adulteresses and homosexuals to death is good for them because it purifies their souls:

http://jonathanhalevi.blogspot.ca/2013/08/adulterers-andhomosexuals-can-benefit.html

PP, you're dead right and it is a chilling phenomenon. I'm not immune to that mindset, but I like to think that if I were in such a culture I'd have a shiver, a knot in my gut, or an inner voice telling me that facing that fear and acting like a mature man would solve this for men and women alike.

I wonder if Muslim women see their men as repressed? I believe that people know when things suck, even if they haven't seen better. And it's safe to say only a very brave Muslima would publicly declare that view.

I'm not saying we Westerners are squeaky clean, but Islam takes it to a new level.

Pat Condell always calls BS on Islam with hilarity.

Compare and contrast what that paper says about the male gaze with what feminists say about the male gaze.

Make them arrest you. "Public"? Sorry - can't promote one religion over another. You can swim somewhere else, since you cannot leave your religion at home where it belongs.

Wait - this is Canada.
Bend over, instead.

For a moment I fantasized about getting all the imams in one place and forcing them to watch the Miley Cyrus performance. Just for kicks.

Then I changed my mind. Josephine Baker and her banana dance would probably do the trick, and be classier besides.

Why not just announce at the beginning (or at the sign-on point-of-contact) that the class is open for observation by father and mothers? Anyone who objects can request (or start) their own no-fathers-allowed swim classes.

Why does the majority population have to bend over backwards to accommodate a small minority population with restrictive rules?

Or is this just someone's idea of a temper tantrum?

So, just what exactly happens when a Muslim woman swims? Does the white burka become a sheer see-thru "bathing suit"?

Seriously though, reading the article you realize that the only-one-gender swim classes have an upper limit of 18 years old. That means there are no adult women in these classes (nor are there adult men in the men only classes.)

Which means the Muslims are afraid of men looking at their little girls (and vice versa) - so, is this really what is inside the minds of Imams - that young girls are "sexy"!?

We were at a waterpark a few months ago and there was a muslim woman there. She was wearing a swimming burka or something. It was very interesting to compare to the orthodox Jewish woman - both were quite covered just very... differently.

Given these suits exist, those who don't want to be immodest by their standards can simply wear one of those suits. How hard is that?

"Fear of women's sexual power, fear of their own weakness, fear of their woman leaving them if she was allowed to even talk to another man, fear of the other men themselves, fear fear fear."

I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the "leaving them" aspect. This a large part of why genital mutilation occurs.

I do think one thing that has been left out though, is power power power.

If they force women to dress a certain way, not allow them to leave without male escort, etc etc etc, then one day, they might realize they're just as smart and powerful as men. Which would reduce the power of these weak, itsy-bitsy brained males, (their own words) as they absolutely need to subjugate the women in order to feel powerful.

This is the modi operandi of bullies, you understand, which is really what they are.

Weak minded, short sighted, ineffectual bullies who were never made to understand the true power of the individual in a fully functioning modern society.

The extremists, anyway.

"If they force women to dress a certain way, not allow them to leave"

Should say

*If they don't force women to dress a certain way, or allow them to leave"

IIRC, the problem we have here is that a human doesn't have agency. There is no 'free will', everything is the will of allah... which means in a very perverse way, that the whole protection/covering up thing IS actually a way for them to prevent contact, and thus the theoretically lustful thought.

Which has of course twisted the entire culture into a pretzel, because: human, whacha gonna do. Couple with the taking of more than one woman, the taking of younger woman, and you have a whole boatload of guys that will NEVER have a chance to find one.

Within those strictures they demand that we follow their rules, otherwise we are kafir essentially of the devil, because we are preventing them being chaste.

Add ON TOP of that, that we have a group of govt. people who insist on appeasement, because of "noble Savage" syndrome, and self loathing.

Seems like one of the Ivy League schools had some kind of special female only swim times, for the same reason a few years ago, though I never heard the outcome.

In any event, if you pay the tax dollars, even loonies, you should be able to supervise your own child, as a matter of diversity and fairness, since you are the parent regardless.

but then, common sense is what exactly? Why conquer countries when you can take them from within?

My biggest problem with sex and age segregated instruction is that it necessarily limits your choice of instructors.

I dont want to be taught by someone who was picked because they were the right gender, anymore than I want an instructor who got the job by default because they were the right race, age, color or disability to fill someone's pc quota.

"evil temptresses, the greatest fitna [temptation] for men"

While I will admit that any woman I have known for a while that I might have a moment of lust in my heart for them, somehow I have made it over 40+ years without raping, molesting, killing, or otherwise harming a woman. For that matter I haven't really ever harmed a male either.

But all you women are an evil temptresses that need to be watched.

Just thinking...

I believe most everyone (Muslim and non) find rape unacceptable (perhaps with varying degree). The Imams say the women need to cover up so the men don't get lustful thoughts and rape the women. The non Muslim men for the most part don't rape women even when the women are not all covered up. Thus, it would seem everyone involved would have an interest in the Imams and Muslim men learning from the non-Muslim men how to have enough self control not rape women.

Well, Muhammad did take his 9 year-old bride to bed. So as a Muslim, there would be precedent. As a Redneck myself, we had a less libertine guide: If they can bleed, they can breed. But I realize that's a throwback to the days of a short life expectancy.
Pudendency is a remarkable word and I'm glad to have learned it. But the greatest, most marvelous part of Asma Barlas' quote is the part that describes women as "the larger part of the inhabitants of Hell . . ." You just couldn't commission writing like that here, but it's a common understanding in the Muslim world. This is comedy on an elevated plane. Twain, Hicks, and Kinison would be proud.

Agreed, wtf, but I figure they wouldn't need the power so bad if they weren't already filled with fear.

"Wait - this is Canada.
Bend over, instead."

Really Rad? While I do agree with your viewpoint, at least in regards to multiculturalism, the snark is a little much.

"Why does the majority population have to bend over backwards to accommodate a small minority population with restrictive rules?"

Politics, politics, politics.

Our politicians are sneaky bastards.

They bring these people over here because they know we're fuckin fed up and wise to their shit, and if they bring these people over on the boats, they can draw on the gratitude vote. At least for a while.

Then they learn about the rights guaranteed them under our Charter, and they get a bigger sense of entitlement then even our most dedicated welfare recipients have, and protest and whine until you get the above result. By that time, the assholes on the Hill don't give a shit, cause they've already been elected again.

The whole PC shit adds to the dilemma, because we as an enlightened society could never turn these poor, defenseless immigrants away. Not when we can let them in and give them free healthcare, education, housing, and jobs, (They actually get them before the fourth generation, taxpaying, white Anglo-Christians do, cause well, they haven't gotten enough of a free ride..) regardless of income or criminal record. They only have to step foot on our shores, and we have no choice but to offer asylum until we can legally deport them, which can take years. Many, many years.

That's not to say that no immigrant has ever contributed and they're all convicts. Some of them are harder working then us that have been here for 6 generations. It galls me though, that we have enough problems of our own to solve, (Like unemployment and skyrocketing debt, are we listening Mr. Harper?) and the asshats on the Hill are spending our money bringing over the unproductive and uneducated, and in some cases, criminal, to garner votes.

While I LOATHE Quebec, and almost everything associated with it, (Please Please Please TAKE THEM OVER!) they have the right idea. They are about the only province to actually stand up to Islam, and defend their society and religion. Their attitude...Don't like it, LEAVE.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/03/24/quebec-reasonable-accommodation-law.html

There are many more instances. Like when they banned Muslim children from wearing hijabs at soccer practice, or banning hijabs from Universities.

For once, they got it right. Excuse me while I rinse my mouth with bleach.

PricklyPear, it's the chicken and the egg. ;)

This is what happens when Muslim women swim:

http://www.muslim-swimwear.com/

As the father of attractive adolescent daughters, I have to admit it has a certain appeal . . .

They just have a messaging problem.

If they were smart enough to mention "rape culture" and the "patriarchy", they'd get plenty of support.

Well, goodness me, no wonder they don't want the men looking! Those Muslim bathing suits (thank you Grey Ghost) actually show the outlines of legs and things! The horror...the horror....