>when the cop told him to lay his gun down on the
>city side of the grass in the neighborhood and
>then said he could take it because it was on city
>property.

I have a buddy who was pulled over by the police for a traffic violation, then charged for illegal parking (for where he stopped his car for the police)

reminds me of Harold and Kumar - a school bully who does not make it to college becomes a cop so he can bully people even after passing out of school....how right they were in the movie.

The guy strikes me as an infantile assclown. Would he carry his loaded firearm into a bank or a shopping mall to prove his "point"?

"Would he carry his loaded firearm into a bank or a shopping mall to prove his "point"?"

That's not an apples and oranges comparison. That's an apples and jetliners comparison.

Malls and banks usually prohibit firearms. They are also private property and allowed to establish such rules without violating the constitution. Kind of like how Amy can block astounding ass-hats from commenting on her site without denying them their first amendment rights.

The guy strikes me as an infantile assclown.

The point, Dave, is that you are supposed to be free to be an assclown, and that assclowns are protected by the Constitution just the same as you and me (or at least me).

People who skate right up to the edge of "He deserved to be treated like a violent criminal because he should have known better than to challenge The Man," which is what you just did, are proto-fascist pissants. Fifth-graders think stuff like that; there's no excuse for an adult American to be that sloppy in reasoning skills, or that dismissive of the rights of free citizens.

The point, Dave, is that you are supposed to be free to be an assclown, and that assclowns are protected by the Constitution just the same as you and me (or at least me).

As long as the guy, his gun, and his bullets remained on his property, he was free to sit in his yard and intimidate the hell out of the neighbors.

And the police were obligated to make sure he had no hostile intentions.

Forcing him to place his gun where it could be confiscated - at risk of being shot for non-compliance violates his 2nd Amendment rights.

And, yes, this guy is an assclown. Sitting on your front lawn displaying your presumably loaded rifle is not exercising your 2nd Amendment rights. It's intimidating your neighbors. He could have at least put up a banner letting passersby know that he was demonstrating in support of the 2nd Amendment (and not about to open fire on the playground). Let's not pretend this guy is some great defender of the Constitution.

At what college is this guy a 2nd year law student? What exactly were the admission requirements, fog a mirror?

"Usually we gather on a street corner during rush hour traffic and waive signs and flags." Really. So nice that they spend time on street corners and dismiss signs and flags. And this guy's a 2nd year law student.

"And the police were obligated to make sure he had no hostile intentions."

This is where the logic loses me. The hysterical nanny ninnies have worked overtime to convince everyone, that even owning a gun is evidence of "hostile intentions"

Not only should carrying a gun be perfectly fine, in the absence of a threat, the police should not be quizzing people about their "intentions"

And proving intent is so very difficult even in a court of law.

Now pointing a loaded gun at something and pulling the trigger. "THAT" is evidence of a hostile intent.

But apparently, if you are a member of a protected group no problemo if you shoot someone's tires out on a city street.

That will never show up on your record, unless you are some poor cracker from Georgia.

And the police were obligated to make sure he had no hostile intentions. -- Conan the Grammarian at September 17, 2013 5:09 PM

Where?

The callers? Did the callers say he had pointed at them?

If I have an AR-15 on my shoulder and a flag in one hand and a cell phone in in the other how am I pointing the gun?

NOT AN EXCUSE MAYBE A REASON NOT AN EXCUSE MAYBE A REASON NOT AN EXCUSE MAYBE A REASON NOT AN EXCUSE MAYBE A REASON NOT AN EXCUSE MAYBE A REASON

There, just to make that clear.

A possible reason that the Rochester Hills PD went all Seal Team 6 on this guy is that less than a week ago, a Michigan state trooper was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop in the Western part of the state.

NOT SAYING THAT THAT JUSTIFIES THIS BEHAVIOR FAR FROM IT BUT IT MAY EXPLAIN WHAT CAUSED THE OFFICERS TO BEHAVE THIS WAY.

llater,

llamas

NOT SAYING THAT THAT JUSTIFIES THIS BEHAVIOR FAR FROM IT BUT IT MAY EXPLAIN WHAT CAUSED THE OFFICERS TO BEHAVE THIS WAY.

llater,

llamas

Posted by: llamas at September 18, 2013 4:53 AM

Yes, A reason, And I would really like our police forces to back away from the philosophy that any threat or damage to a police officer is at least twice as important as a crime committed against an ordinary citizen. ( And needs to be "avenged" right away)

If a liquor store owner had been shot in another part of the state, what do you want to bet that it would be a big yawn, business as usual, and not an excuse to go around preemptively grabbing legal guns.

Jim P. and Isab,

We establish police departments to protect us and enforce the laws.

If you're standing on your front lawn with a gun in your hand (and you don't do that regularly, so to your neighbors this is an outlier in your behavior) and someone calls the police to say their neighbor is standing on his law with a gun, the police are obligated to go make sure he is not presenting a danger to the public.

They can't always determine that until after the fact, but they can at least drive up and say, "Hey, buddy...."

I'm not saying the 2nd Amendment stomping all-but-SWAT response the Rochester police provided in this incident was correct. It wasn't. But some kind of response is warranted.

Else, why have a police department.

@ Conan the Grammarian - indeed, and indeed, YouTube is filled with video examples of the correct approach to something like this - an act that is not prima-facie unlawful, but which is an outlier sufficient to warrant at least a heightened level of interest.

Here's a perfect example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIPfvkagDQ

Calm, courteous but complete questioning, deliberately non-confrontational, skilled body language and verbal judo on the part of the primary officer. Top marks. Nobody's rights were violated in the slightest, yet the public safety concern was adequately addressed. It's like something out of a training film.

It so happens that I am not unfamiliar with Oakland County SD, which is the agency primarily featured in the original video. I'm actually quite surpised at the way this incident was handled, with the rider that we do not see anything that went on prior to the first officer pulling up.

llater,

llamas

Else, why have a police department.

Posted by: Conan the Grammarian at September 18, 2013 8:45 AM

I can think of plenty of reasons to have a police department, like arresting people for real crimes in progress, and investigating ones that have already occured.

But the politicians have spent so much time demonizing both gun ownership and drugs, it is any wonder that most of their time, and money is wasted on investigating complaints of dubious value about non existent "threats" like small time drug dealers, minors buying cigarettes, and "gasp" people seeing their neighbor holding a gun.

One of my neighbors flipped their shit abd called the police because they drove past and saw me putting three hunting rifles in my trunk. The police showed up drawing their guns and yelling at me to get on the ground. Dispatch had told them a woman at my address was aiming a gun at cars driving by. After finding out what was actually going on the two officers did apologize, but certainly not before causing a spectacle and making me look like a criminal in front of the whole neighborhood, who had all gathered to see what was going on. It's pretty damnbad you can't walk outside and place an unloaded weapon in the back of your car without people panicking!

It's pretty damnbad you can't walk outside and place an unloaded weapon in the back of your car without people panicking!

Bunnygirl, There have been several people in your situation who ended up dead when the police overreacted. This is another facet of the "every man is a child molestor until proven otherwise" mentality.

I understand why the open carry people do what they do. They want to make guns so common that the police get a hundred calls a day, and stop with the swat team tactics.

Where I live, I see guns being carried every day. So many people have them and carry, no one is alarmed.

i would also applaud them if they had a "take your young daughter for a walk day" where thousands of men, took their little girls out with them on the public streets until the police were overwhelmed with calls about that nonsense.

We establish police departments to protect us and enforce the laws.

…
They can't always determine that until after the fact, but they can at least drive up and say, "Hey, buddy...."
… -- Conan the Grammarian at September 18, 2013 8:45 AM

If they drove up and said "Hey, buddy…" there would probably be zero reaction. The local LEO showed up with six "troops" and then threatened to take his fire arm because he was in the easement and not on his property.

My property has the easement under the road. So if LEO shows up, I can tell them GFO. He had the same rights.

America is growing cowards. The sheriff closed a ramp on I-75 in Georgia a couple of weeks ago because of a "suspicious package".

It was a picnic basket.

Heaven help us, someone drops the big Igloo cooler by the side of a road.

Or leaves a car unattended. Panic! PANIC!

-----

I've an acquaintance who maintains a minefield. Yep, one of those, a real one. Most have no fuse installed. The mines are part of experiments in advanced detection and disarmament techniques. He also has license for every non-nuclear explosive there is, and teaches IED construction to LEOs from all over.

Guess what?

Bombs don't look anything like bombs. Soda cans, pie plates, McDonald's bags, rolled-up socks, a football or softball, a library book. He really likes the "spare tire", you can get lots of volume that way. Even a lanyard makes a good bang.

We are cowards, and totally ignorant of what a threat really is.