The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) held some pretty racist attitudes of their own. Although all males in the Mormon Church are to enter the priesthood (females are prohibited) Brigham Young candidly stated that black people (who were considered the descendants of Cain) could not become priests. "The Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood."

This abhorrent policy remained in effect until 1978. I could never join the Mormon Church. Leaving questions of their beliefs aside, their policy of blatant racism and sexism is completely unacceptable.

There is also an element of hypocrisy in the yelps of indignation coming from the conservatives over this issue. They weren't this upset when Karl Rove, utilizing his trademarked no-blow-is-too-low methodology to make sure Dubya won the primary, was push-polling Republican voters claiming that John McCain's adopted Bangladeshi daughter Briget was actually his illegitimate black child.

That said, these comments are pretty damned ugly. The soi-disant progressives are tipping some pretty racist hands of their own. Romney is a repulsive human being, and I would pity anyone cursed to be raised in his household, but I doubt he had any sinister or political motive in adopting this child. He lost the election and it's unlikely that he's going to get another crack at it, particularly in light of the extremely poor showing he had on the campaign trail during the last election.

Regarding the comments made by angry black people, Larry Elder, a black libertarian, wrote a book about 15 years ago called "Ten Things You Cannot Say In America." His first chapter was titled, "Blacks Are More Racist Than Whites."

Only a fraction of churches allow women to be 'priesthood' holders. And mormons racism towords blacks was far gentler than that of catholics who condemned just the one skin color to slavery

Sadly, these comments don't surprise me; disgust, yes, surprise, not at all.

The most ridiculous one I heard was people were angry at Wanda Sykes for....get this....marrying a white woman and for this woman having white kids.

She is a lesbian. Since she is black she was supposed to marry a black woman and have black kids.

Her reply was "I'm a lesbian we are never going to have babies that look like the two of us no matter how much sex we have"

Of course, if they had adopted a white baby, people would be clucking about that, too. Adoptive parents just cannot win with some people. The baby does have the most pinchable cheeks, what a doll.

Reading this made me flash on an Doonesbury strip when a couple adopted Kim from Vietnam. As I recall, the father is holding her and a friend says "So what are you going to do with it?" Dad looks at him and says "Raise it, Phil. Raise it."

Mitt and Ann Romney didn't adopt a grandchild. His son, Ben, and his daughter-in-law, Andelynne, adopted a child.

Romney hatred is getting out of hand. Nothing I've heard about the man indicates he is a "repulsive human being." Like most Mormons I've ever met, he's a bit sheltered in his worldview, but he's not standing on the courthouse steps screaming "Segregation forever!" or arguing to reinstate Prohibition or trying to deny women the vote or throwing gay people off cliffs.

Stories about Romney's charity abound, from delivering gifts to needy families at Christmas to organizing a search for an employee's missing daughter to giving 30% of his income to charitable organizations.

=========================

Romney might need to learn to count. Although, with 23 grandchildren, losing count of one of them is understandable.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2427777/Oops-Mitt-Romney-welcomes-second-22nd-grandchild-Republican-presidential-candidate-accidentally-looses-count-growing-clan.html

=========================

And naming him Kieran might have been a bit of an oopsie.

"'Kieran' is common name in Ireland, and though it does mean 'black' or 'dark,' it usually denotes a link to Fergus, King of Ulster, a figure in Irish legend."

"The name descends from 'Ciar,' one of Fergus’s sons, who is said to have given birth to the Ciarraige, a medieval Irish people who gave their name to County Kerry."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/22/romney-announces-that-adopted-black-grandson-has-gaelic-name-meaning-black/

=========================

Like most organized religions, the Church of LDS is having to adopt to a world that no longer fits the geographical and social environment of its origins.

With an Argentinian pope, the Catholic Church is expanding its leadership and worldview beyond the narrow confines of Europe - and is suffering some growing pains for doing so.

The outside world is invading Islam's fourteenth century Arab worldview and the results so far are not pretty.

The Mormons are having to adjust to a world that is no longer defined by eighteenth century Utah.

Patrick, with his usual lack of reading comprehension, thinks Romney adopted this kid, and that it's all about how horrid a person Romney is.

Past that, if you want to adopt a child in the US, it's going to be black or biracial. Overwhelmingly high odds. My cousin and her husband just adopted a black boy. They are white. They already have 3 kids of their own. Are they horrible and repulsive? Hardly.

I think black people must have some deep seething hatred that now this child has a chance in life instead of being stuck in the black ghetto they place themselves in. That, and the liberal knee-jerk desire to hate and ridicule republicans no matter WHAT they do, that Patrick displays here so well.

I have looked into Mormon beliefs. I find them absurd. But the nicest people I've known in my life have been Mormon. They aren't bad people.

Romney is a repulsive human being,

Why?

He's done all sorts of kind things for people.

http://www.newsmax.com/Murdock/Romney-Good-Deeds-Obama/2012/10/26/id/461664

Racism abounds, only now it's starting to turn round, and it seems like mostly white people are on the receiving end. Sad, sad, sad.

M4: Patrick, with his usual lack of reading comprehension, thinks Romney adopted this kid, and that it's all about how horrid a person Romney is.

Momof4, always conscious of her intellectual and emotional inferiority, leaps upon the chance to attack someone she hates and knows is more intelligent than her (which would include most people, let's face it).

I read Amy's headline on top of the blog. Which evidently, you missed, on the subject of reading comprehension.

Are you going to take Amy to task for her lack of reading comprehension, since she's the one who reported that Romney and his wife adopted the baby?

And when did I say that his supposed adoption had anything to do with how horrid a person Romney is? On the subject of those who lack reading comprehension (again). For someone who harps upon people that you perceive have poor reading comprehension, my poor imbecile, you sure demonstrate a lot of it.

Why is Romney a horrid person, Amy? He only does good when he can easily and comfortably afford it.

You see, if I were to save a failing company, and discovered that the only way to save is to lay off a few thousand people, and I was getting paid millions for doing it, I'd feel somewhat ill myself. I mean, hear I am, getting paid more than I could possibly need, helping thousands out of a job.

I mean, you'd think that Romney would be able to get by with just one million and donate the remaining nine million into some nice severance packages for the people whose lives he ruined.

I mean, that's what I would do. And I'd go even one further and venture to say you'd do something similar, Amy.

But not old entitled Mitt. "But...but...but...my children must have Jetskis and...and...and horses!"

Romney's Son And Wife Adopt A Baby -- But There's A Problem

I thought of saying, "Romney's Son And Son's Wife" but it seemed clunky and I figured that people would understand that a mother and son don't adopt children together; a son and his wife do.

I think there is a tendency for one's hatred of a person to take over and to assume whatever the worst would be about them -- although if Romney's son and Romney's wife did adopt a baby...wouldn't that be a nice thing, if a little odd?

Taking a child who is not your own and giving it a loving home is a wonderful thing.

To not care that it looks like it came out of your body, to me, is probably a sign of love triumphing over human biases and pettiness, also a wonderful thing.

Do some Hollywood actresses adopt black children for status reasons? Maybe. But we don't really know, now do we?

Although I don't approve of single parenting, even if you're rich, for reasons I get into elsewhere, if you go to a poverty-stricken country and take an orphan home with you and love him as your own child...should we be taking you to task in any way? I don't care whether you did it for status as part of the reason. You're loving a child and giving it (presumably, we hope) a good home.

That's what matters.

"push-polling Republican voters claiming that John McCain's adopted Bangladeshi daughter Briget was actually his illegitimate black child."

It was slightly better, and slightly worse than that. He implied it, the question was more like "What would you think of McCain IF it were his illegitimate child?" But the question got turned into a statement in the ears and minds of the people who heard it.

As to how much of a difference it actually made in the vote, I'll lay odds it's small, but it was no less a skeevy move to take.

This is more a case of the "They can do no right" policy that each side holds against the others. If this were done by a person they like and respect, they'd have a petition started to get them the Nobel Peace Prize.

Ha! Amy, I didn't get much sleep last night. We had a loud thunderstorm and a torrential downpour. I see it now, Amy. Thanks.

Why is Romney a horrid person, Amy? He only does good when he can easily and comfortably afford it.

Dont see you sacrificing your $15-$40 dollar a moth internet connection to feed more homeless Patrick

You see, if I were to save a failing company, and discovered that the only way to save is to lay off a few thousand people, and I was getting paid millions for doing it, I'd feel somewhat ill myself. I mean, hear I am, getting paid more than I could possibly need, helping thousands out of a job.

I mean, you'd think that Romney would be able to get by with just one million and donate the remaining nine million into some nice severance packages for the people whose lives he ruined.

Well, Patrick, when (and if) you ever get called upon to save a company (assuming you show any competence to do so), we'll all hold you to that standard.

The populist demonization of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital Patrick is using (here and in yesterday's thread) is straight out of the Democratic Party talking points ... and is as full of lies and resentment now as it was when the Obama campaign used it.

Romney didn't ruin those lives or eliminate those jobs. Those companies were failing and those jobs were already eliminated. In saving the company, jobs were saved, not all, but some.

And what about the people whose jobs were saved? Should they contribute part of their income to a fund for those whose jobs could not be saved? Should they feel "somewhat ill?"

Are you next going to bring out some guy who was laid off five years earlier and blame Romney for his wife's death? Wait, that's already been done.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/is-romney-to-blame-for-cancer-death/

Low blows.

If the Romneys raise this child right, he *will* learn to do dishes and make a bed. I suspect most if not all of the Romney kids do. This is why they're mostly not losers.

My only reservation about the adoption is the preparedness of the parents.

Having been adopted, I can safely say that it takes a very special couple of people to be able to raise an adopted child to have no issues regarding the adoption later in life.

I worry about everyone in an adoption situation, as in my own experience and from the experiences of the many adopted friends I have, it usually leads to trauma for all involved.People can be cruel, even to white babies adopted by white couples. Or white couples who adopt white babies. The issues my and my own friends experienced in my mind would only be quadrupled when faced with such outward evidence of the adoption.

Not that adoption should be outlawed, but I find the regulations and legislation surrounding adoptions, at least in my own province, to be somewhat lacking. I think that family counselling should be mandated until at least age 12 for the child, in the event the child is told.

In my own opinion, the best outcome would be if the child was never told of the adoption, but that is admittedly impossible in this case.

Vinnie, actually, according to The Daily KOS, it was (at least to South Carolina voters: "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?"

Now, how many people are going to say "More likely" to that?

It's hard to say how much it skewed the vote, but apparently Karl Rove thought it would skew the vote enough to make a difference. And if there's one thing Rove knows, it's the effectiveness of dirty tricks. He's been involved with them his entire political life and has no intention of ever leaving.

See? Atheists have nooooo moral compass. (Just kidding, Amy!)

Though if someone does claim that that will change how they vote, they should be reminded that they would vote against Strom Thurmond. And Thomas Jefferson.

Conan: Are you next going to bring out some guy who was laid off five years earlier and blame Romney for his wife's death? Wait, that's already been done.

I wasn't aware of it, Conan. But thanks for sharing it.

No, I don't think I'll be bringing that out.

Wow, my parents must have been ahead of the times. This is over 40 years ago.

White Mormon couple adopt a half Native American/Caucasian baby, my older brother. Plus have two other children the regular way(already had one before). I think race have little to nothing on the choice. My parents after a miscarriage wanted a chance to prove themselves.

Many Mormons adopt children not caring about race. It is the religious imperative to have large families and heck even just the desire to have children to love. Heck I know of many Mormon couples who foster children for the heck of it. They just want to help and care.

Well Ms.Alkon. I do agree Korean babies are cute, but as children can ... still cute just annoying.

If you do decide, act quickly as the Koreans are surely and eventually will stop overseas adoptions. Less each year. Never mind there is many children who would love to be adopted, but can not not because of race and honor/face issues.

In my own opinion, the best outcome would be if the child was never told of the adoption, but that is admittedly impossible in this case.

I disagree. Not only because it's dishonest, but I feel that one must to be able to trace blood line for possible hereditary genetic health issues issues down the road. Imagine this: You go in to the hospital, to be tested as a donor for your family member who's been struck with lukemia. Let say you not only find out you aren't a match but you are also do not even share DNA. Is that how you'd want to find out? Or, you're stricken with some unexplainable health problems, and no one in your family has a history. Wouldn't it be beneficial to be able to look into the biological parents medical history (assuming it's available) to see if this is a genetic trait or an annomily?

As to the topic of the Romney's.... why the fuck does anyone care? It's none of our business. The fact that this is even news irritates me. White couples adopt black babies all.the.time. I think it's great, but not newsworthy. If this is what people have to be mad at them about right now, then you must live a sorry sorry existance in reality. Leave them alone and let them raise thier kid.

Sabrina: As to the topic of the Romney's.... why the fuck does anyone care? It's none of our business. The fact that this is even news irritates me.

Now that it's been clarified to me, I'm actually irritated. What his son does or doesn't do is no business of ours. Yes, as a former presidential candidate, Romney himself is somewhat fair game.

Sarah Palin, as someone employed by Fox News and a former vice-presidential candidate is somewhat fair game. Track (who, last I heard is serving his country in the armed forced, good on him) is not, Bristol is not, Willow is not, Piper is not, and Trig is not.

As for what I mean by somewhat fair game, that means not as fair of game as President Obama or any other elected official. They're in the hotseat.

"Racism abounds, only now it's starting to turn round, and it seems like mostly white people are on the receiving end. Sad, sad, sad."

Uh no. People have always been racists against whites it's just they can be publicly vocal about it now and actually heard.

And no white people dont receive the "most racism". In fact white people are the ones who are more likely to be accepted into other racial groups.

I certainly am aware that I have a certain privilege thanks to my ancestors looking whiteish.

I firmly believe Black people still receive the most racism. Even from other blacks. That doesn't excuse their racism towards others.

And many American Blacks are just annoying with their ideas about race, which hark back to the 1 drop rule. Whites seemed to have dropped this ridiculous notion.

As someone who adopted a baby created by two of the worst people I ever met, I applaud the Romney's.

There is something in human (and in other animals, btw) nature that gives a child a blank slate, and a parental desire to nurture that blank slate into a healthy and loving member of the family.

PS- I was going to make a joke about "as long as they don't make him ride on the roof of the car", but that probably would have been tacky.

I'd agrue that Palin, as someone who SEEKS the limelight is more fair game than Romney who has not since his defeat

At least he did not adopt a muslim baby. Then the followers of the "ROP" would be all over town staging protests and roadblocks and damaging property insisting that the kid be raised a muslim, yet another excuse to bomb things and spreading vitriolic hatred in their "mosques" about the war on islam by western christians adopting their kids and converting them to christianity or whatever judaism and once again inciting war against the non believers.

As for what I mean by somewhat fair game, that means not as fair of game as President Obama or any other elected official. They're in the hotseat.

I can agree with that. When you live in the public eye, what you do becomes open for public scrutiny. But I absolutely agree that family members are off-limits. They didn't ask for the spotlight, they were thrust into it, simply by being related.

But now that it's out there, why all the hate? Especially from black people. The vitriol makes it seems that they could have been caught feeding orphans and donating all their money to starving babies in Africa and someone would have a problem with them just because they have the last name "Romney". To those who have a problem I'd ask, "how many children of ANY race have you opened up your home too?"

*chirp*

Here's another thing to think about. Most of the people who have a problem with this are black, most likely Liberals. Extreme Liberals are known for their stance on unlimited and unrestricted abortion being readily available. So, it's not an unreasonable conclusion to jump to that they think it would have been better for the mother to abort this baby than to allow for some white couple to raise it.
Because, you know, priorities...

"I disagree."

Good for you. Rewind, live life as an adopted child, and then you can tell me my opinion is wrong.

Your post concerning my opinion smacks of superiority.

I shouldn't say "my opinion is wrong" , I should say, "tell me you disagree".

And to answer your question, the slight possibility of finding out that way is outweighed by the issues most *not all* adopted children have. Also,the source of a medical problem is not as important as the treatment.

"how devastating it is for kids to find out eventually that they actually were."

It is more devastating to know all your life, and wonder what the hell was wrong with you that they gave you up but kept your brothers. To be shown, (in my husbands case) abuse and neglect when the biological children were showered with affection and gifts. To know that (in a friends case) you were seen as an impediment to a marriage and so were given up so the boyfriend would marry your mother.

Many people think that adoptions are an expression of pure love; what wonderful people these adoptive parents must be to take in a child not their own! In reality many more then people realize are simply a case of ego, or of doing what society deems is right.

In reality, foster homes are many times the more compassionate choice. That way, the child isn't fooled into thinking they have a family when all they really have is a place to stay, three hot meals, and access to medical care. If they're lucky. If not, they suffer emotional and physical beatings daily simply for being born.

FWIW, I read an story on CNN last week about the rise in foreign adoptions of black (and mixed-race) American children.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/world/international-adoption-us-children-adopted-abroad/index.html?iref=allsearch
It's the first thing I thought of when I saw this blog post. When I read the CNN article, I immediatly figured that this would probably piss someone off- either the liberals or the black liberals or the career race-baiters.

Anyhow, I don't know the answer to this question: Is it common for black people to adopt non-related black children?

How can you criticize someone adopting a child of YOUR race- when the adoptive parent is not the same race as the child- if you wouldn't even consider adopting a kid in a similiar situation. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems like they'd prefer the child be aborted, or perhaps left to languish in the foster care system.

Thanks Amy. :-)

I'm adopted. Knew my whole life (even before I quite understood what it meant). Glad I know. Glad I found my bio family. Glad I am adopted.

My parents (adopted) also adopted my brother. My aunt and uncle (adopted) also adopted 2 girls.

We all always knew. All glad we knew. My brother is searching for his bio family because of medical issues that his daughter has.

wtf your experience and those that you know is not universal. Maybe bad parents who adopt shouldn't tell them (or they shouldn't adopt at all).

"And why should an adoption be considered some shameful secret or something to keep secret at all?"

I think our posts crossed Amy-see above.

Katrina, I'm glad you had such a good experience.

While I know my experience is not universal, it is much more common than you think. There are whole support, therapy and discussion groups dedicated to bad adoptions. I know because I happen to be in one.

Think about it this way. I am average, depressingly so. How is it that one average woman can meet several different people (outside support groups I might add) with stories just as bad if not worse than hers, stories bordering on the heinous? And marry one?

Also, these wonderful stories about reuniting with birth parents, the ones that make you feel all warm and squishy, are much less common than is widely believed.

That is why I said that legislation should be changed, with counselling mandatory. I also think psychological testing on the parents should be mandated, and restrictions tightened.

I'm sure there a more than a few good adoptive parents out there. I have yet to meet any.

Maybe you live in a place that has low standards for adopting parents. Maybe I live in a place that has high standards. I don't know but I am not proposing laws based on my limited experience. Not all bad outcomes can be eliminated by laws.

Some parents are abusive whether they have bio or adopted kids.

I'm sure there are support groups for people who wish they were adopted because their bio parents suck.

I still had dysfunction in my family (my bio family was just that much more dysfunctional).

I don't care if McCain fathered a fuschia child in a polyamorous orgy or if Romney adopted a tentacled child from Mars.

Their family, their business. Not how I decide how to cast my vote.

While I disagree with wtf about mandatory counseling, our adoption was a rubber stamp process. The birth mother \ father \ putative father simply never showed up to the hearing. We were out of there in 15 minutes. We never were contacted by any social agency whatsoever. It was like a trip to the DMV where you wore a tie.

I think this whole searching for biological parents because of medical issues is a red herring.
A very tiny percentage of medical issues are genetic, and of the ones that, are, a tiny fraction of those have effective treatments.
Most are lifestyle issues, and those who have some education in genetics know that your phenotype is much more important than your genotype.
In other words, yes, one of your bio parents or a sibling might possibly be a match for a bone marrow transplant, but it is just as likely that your bone marrow match is one of your 16 great great grandparents who unfortuately all died eightly years ago.

But, adopted children should be told. My mother was adopted, and her adoptive parents, were her parents. She never needed any others.
I see a little bit of drama queen in those who absolutely "must" find bio relatives in order to feel complete.

While I disagree with wtf about mandatory counseling, our adoption was a rubber stamp process. The birth mother \ father \ putative father simply never showed up to the hearing. We were out of there in 15 minutes. We never were contacted by any social agency whatsoever. It was like a trip to the DMV where you wore a tie.

"I don't know but I am not proposing laws based on my limited experience."

I hope you are not implying my experience is limited. If you are, you are sadly mistaken.

"Not all bad outcomes can be eliminated by laws."

No, but they can help. At least they could if they were tightened. The ones we have now are woefully inadequate.

"A very tiny percentage of medical issues are genetic"

Part of my point.

"I see a little bit of drama queen in those who absolutely "must" find bio relatives in order to feel complete."

Are you adopted Isab?

WTF,

Because I'm not adopted I can't have an opinion? Ludicrous. Because, that's just like the parents who tell us non-parents that we 'can't possibly understand' when we have an opinion on children too, right?

My opinion on it is based on factual case evidence of adoptions that I've been witness to, and studied when I once-upon-a-time wanted to go into social work, not some magical thinking about adoption. It's also based my own friends experiances. Very very few people go into adoption lightly. It's natural for a child to want answers when they find out, (and most do inevitably find out) assuming they didn't always know. And it's not uncommon for them to contact thier birth parent(s) if they can find them, (which is easier than ever these days). Most adoptive parents are very open with thier children and encourage contact, if it's what the child wants. There is nothing healthy about hiding it from the child. And my argument about potential health care still applies. Yes, treatment is important. But so is prevention. If you can trace your heredity, you might be able to PREVENT illness before you even need treatment. And Amy has already provided you with the Segal case.

Clearly, you have a chip on your shoulder about your adoption. That's not my fault. But your experience 1) isn't universal and 2) doesn't mean that my opinion is any less valid. I also grew up in an abusive home. They were my biological parents. Abuse isn't DNA specific.

You must also remember, regulations HAVE changed since you and I were children. It's harder to adopt a child now than it is to fix your identity after it's been stolen.

wtf,

All of our experience is limited.

Let's use some numbers, in 2008 according to http://www.creatingafamily.org/blog/children-adopted-year/ 135,813 children where adopted in the US. Let's be generous and say you know 1000 adoptees. That is less than 1% of adoptions of one year. Limited.

Does mandatory counseling help any abusive parents become less abusive? Any proof your recommendation will actually make a difference?

Eric,
My understanding was my adoption and my brother's was through an agency with sealed records. I may be assuming that there was an approval process.

"As a child, I was afraid that I was adopted. As I grew older, I was afraid that I wasn't." ~ Jeff MacNelly

Does mandatory counseling help any abusive parents become less abusive?

In my limited experience,

No.

Are you adopted Isab?

Posted by: wtf at September 25, 2013 1:30 PM

No, My mother was, when she was two.

When I was in the first grade, our teacher read "Ann of Green Gables" to us. I knew by that age that my mother was adopted, a red head, with extremely elderly adoptive parents, and I got the impression my mother WAS Ann of Green Gables. :-)

"Because I'm not adopted....when we have an opinion on children too, right?"

First of all, I never said you couldn't have an opinion. I said that you shouldn't presume to disagree with someone's opinion when that person has been through the process, and you haven't. Witnessing an adoption is far, far different than actually being adopted, or going through the process. As far as parents and non-parents, while non parents of course have an opinion, it is true that parents have an understanding of children and the process of raising them that non-parents don't, therefore carrying a tad more weight; in the same vain as a doctor's opinion carrying more weight than a med students.

"Very very few people go into adoption lightly."

Maybe they don't go into it "lightly", but most do not think as far into the future as they should, or consider factors that they should. This is why I think counselling should be mandatory, psychological testing required, and restrictions tightened.

"And it's not uncommon for them to contact their birth parent(s)"

It's also not uncommon for these "reunions" to go badly, and deepen issues already created by the adoption. Many more go badly then most people think.

"Most adoptive parents are very open with their children and encourage contact,"

Nope. More than a few are jealous and insecure about their status as parents.

"There is nothing healthy about hiding it from the child."

As pointed out by Isab, there are relatively very few cases of genetic disorders. Your stance that a child should be told by virtue of medical concerns is hardly valid, as these are extreme cases. The child's emotional health should take priority over the wild improbability of genetic disorder. In my opinion, the only reason an adoptive parent (that is not abusive) would have to tell the child they are adopted is to say " Look at me! Look how unique I am, look at how good I am. You are not my child, but I took you in anyway! Am I not a fabulous person?!?" Otherwise, why would it make a difference to you where your child came from? It certainly makes no difference to the child, unless of course you tell them.

"Clearly, you have a chip on your shoulder about your adoption"

Clearly, you presume an understanding of the emotional aspects of adoption which you clearly lack. Most social workers do. I never said it was your fault, you clearly need to get over yourself. As I pointed out above, of course my experience is not universal, but mandatory psych tests and counselling in addition to tightened restrictions would go some way to prevent negative situations.

"You must also remember, regulations HAVE changed since you and I were children."

Not enough.

"All of our experience is limited."

Perhaps in that light. However, I think I have more experience than your average person, or even average adoptee.

"Does mandatory counseling help any abusive parents become less abusive? Any proof your recommendation will actually make a difference?"

I think you may have skewed my point. Of course mandatory counselling will not mitigate abuse. It would, however, help the adoptive parents with good intentions help their child adjust, and help the adoptee to not only accept their situation, but their parents as well. Nothing will prevent abuse totally, but I do think that mandatory psychological testing would go some way in weeding out the parents likely to become abusers.

"As a child, I was afraid that I was adopted. As I grew older, I was afraid that I wasn't." ~ Jeff MacNelly

HA!

"No, My mother was, when she was two."

Then with respect Isab, perhaps you shouldn't presume to know what drives adoptee's to locate their birth parents. While your mothers case was positive, and I'm glad that it was, many aren't. Even if they are, most always want to know where and who they come from.

"and I got the impression my mother WAS Ann of Green Gables. :-)"

HA! Too cute!

"I said that you shouldn't presume to disagree"

Should say - flatly

"Babies don't have a religion"

I doubt if any muslim couple selling their baby for adoption would agree. A baby can even be 4 months old when put up for adoption by which time his/her name, parentage etc would have been fixed in the records.

And even if the muslim couple did agree with anything, there is no way the muslim mafia bosses(their religious leaders) would.

My twin daughters are adopted. We never "told" them. We simply talk about it around them, explain things to them when it comes up, and answer their questions.

There will never be a day when we sit down and say "there is something we need to tell you," like people do when announcing a dog or relative has passed. Adoption IS a good thing, and we talk about it like the blessing it is.

We happened into the adoption agency right before a white birth mother pregnant with twins did, and she picked us almost right away. We were very lucky. We have made friends with many other adoptee couples. Two have adopted from China, and everyone assumes adoption.

One couple who are very close friends with us since before the adoptions are white and adopted a black baby, and while he is loved by his family and church (his grandfather is a pastor), his mother in particular gets a lot of vitrol in public. Most depressingly, it is usually from black women who accuse her of "taking" a black man or call her an n-lover. Amazing how many people claim to loath racism yet are so cruel to someone who clearly isn't racist.

Thank you very much, Amy. :) My children are half white and half Asian, and I agree that they are amazingly beautiful.

After I and my five sisters grew up my parents adopted a boy and a girl, when the girl was about three and the boy about seven. Both are now in their late 20's and have children of their own. They are both fine adults... well, the girl was kind of bad for awhile but she's better now... and are loved, loyal members of our family.

One of my sisters and her husband adopted ten children. They adopted one of the boys when he was less than one month old, and one of the girls when she was 17 years old, and all the others at various ages in between (they also have two daughters via biology).

Six are white, two are black and two are Mexicans. So what? They were kids longing for a family when my sister first encountered them, and my sister and brother-in-law wanted them; and they didn't care that other members of the household had different complexions. They are all awesome people, very loved, and very loyal to each other and to our family, especially to my sister and brother-in-law.

My pale-skinned, red-headed adopted brother married a beautiful woman from Salvadore and adopted her four children. The oldest was 12 and the youngest a toddler. They seem to love the heck out of him, they are very loyal to him, and there is no question that he loves them.

There was never an event when these kids were told they were adopted, and there was never a time they didn't know it. The knowledge doesn't seem to be screwing any of them up.

Nice to hear a few good stories for a change....

:D

Trivia:

Helen Doss and her husband, Carl, a Methodist minister, adopted 12 children no one else wanted (most of mixed race, and seven were infants). One they tried to adopt, circa 1950, was Gretchen, a girl in Germany who was half-black. However, all the American authorities, at least (who'd been semi-helpful with the non-black adoptees) did everything to make it impossible for them, so they eventually turned the papers over to a black American couple - very important in Gretchen's case, since at four, she already knew she was different from the other children in the orphanage and would ask the nurses to "wash her clean" at bathtimes.

Doss' 1954 book is "The Family Nobody Wanted."

I have to wonder just how often it happens that ANY healthy infant, nowadays, "isn't wanted" by couples looking to adopt. Also, how often do agencies try to stop white couples from adopting black kids, presumably for the sake of the child? Also, isn't it free to adopt foster kids? What's the problem?

And here's what Dr. Spock wrote decades ago about what adoptive children need:

"Both parents should want him very much. A couple should decide to adopt a child only if both of them love children and feel that they just can't get along without them. All children, 'own' or adopted, need to feel that they belong to and are loved by both father and mother, deeply and 'forever,' if they are to grow up secure. It's worse for an adopted child to sense a lack of devotion in one or both parents, because he's not quite so secure to begin with. He knows that he was given up for some reason by his true parents, and he may fear secretly that his adopted parents might some day give him up, too. You can see, then, why it's a mistake to adopt when only one parent wants to, or when both parents are thinking of it only for practical reasons, such as to have extra help (on the farm) or someone to take care of them in their old age. Occasionally a woman who is afraid that she's losing her husband will want to adopt a child in the futile hope that this will keep them together. Adoption for these reasons is unfair to the children."

(I only wish he had said that you shouldn't REPRODUCE just for "practical reasons," either.)

He also said:

"Eventually he will raise the more difficult question of why his own mother gave him up. To tell him that his mother didn’t want him would shake his confidence in all mothers. Any sort of made-up reason may bother him later in some unexpected way. Perhaps the best answer and nearest to the truth might be, 'I don’t know why she couldn’t take care of you, but I’m sure she wanted to.' ”

You can read most of that section here:

http://pages.uoregon.edu/adoption/archive/SpockAAC.htm

In my own opinion, the best outcome would be if the child was never told of the adoption, but that is admittedly impossible in this case.

Posted by: wtf at September 25, 2013 9:54 AM

Just the effort most people adopting have to put in to get a kid in the first place puts them miles above most people that have their own kids without any planning whatsoever if you ask me. Just look at all the people whining about how the gov't should be helping them pay for their kids today in the US.

"I've only read that far in this thread"

The point is not whether people should adopt. The point is whether or not adopted children should be told, and what restrictions are in place to ensure the emotional health of adopted children.

If not for adoption, there would be more children in orphanages than there would be orphanages and foster homes to handle them. I'm not against adoption per se, I am against adoption agencies that adopt a child out, then to hell with them after that.