Being anti-vaxx is tantamount to taking pride in one's ignorance. And as we've discussed previously, under the principle of herd immunity, it constitutes a form of social freeloading. No doubt the anti-vaxx people would be the first ones to tell me all about my responsibilites to the community, but apparently the same consideration doesn't apply to them.

Side note: At my checkup last month, I mentioned to the doc that I was due for a tetanus booster. He mentioned to me something I've never heard of: a "TDAP" vaccine which also protects against whooping cough. He told me that they are seeing an alarming uptick in whooping cough among school children in my area. I'm not around kids a lot, but I figured it couldn't hurt so I got it.

I am keeping my 11 month old away from strangers as much as possible...we are right in the zone of the measles outbreak in NYC. Counting the days until she can get her shot.

Boyhood like measles is one of those complaints which a man should catch young and have done with for when it comes in middle life it is apt to be serious. -- P. G. Wodehouse

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers realize that once their sweet little child hits puberty getting any of these diseases can easily lead to sterility. So they'll never have their sweet little grandchild to abuse in the same way.

There's a human price for that lesson.

We've spent a lot of time, effort and money to insulate people from the negative consequences of their choices.

Stupidity should be painful if not fatal.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. It is a lesson that never grows dim.

Being anti-vaxx is tantamount to taking pride in one's ignorance.

It is the nouveau-luddite movement. You see it in SanFran where so many are anti-tech. I have 100 quatloos that say that many of them are anti-vaxers, too.

Darth, I was thinking the exact same thing this morning. A Facebook acquaintance of mine who lives in SF has been tracking both the measles outbreak and the Smart Car tippers. Yes, they are probably the same group. And they're Vandals, with a capital 'V'. They destroy because they are incapable of creating, and yes, they expect others to save them from the consequences of their decisions.

I would be really careful lumping all anti vax people in to an ignorant category. The people who endorse vaccines the big pharma companies the cdc and the FDA none of those groups give a damn about children or people in general. I don't vax my kids I have done years of research. "Herd immunity" is a theory studied in cattle not humans or other higher order primates. Also before anyone calls me ignorant or naive my child was injured from vaccines and my husband almost died from one. I don't understand and no physician or public health official has been able to explain why exposing children or people in general to neuro toxins in vaccines at levels the cdc clearly has deemed unsafe is ok for vaccination purposes. I am not saying vaccines cause autism or people should or shouldn't vax their kids or themselves. However saying anyone who doesn't vax is ignorant and endangering the public health is a ridiculous statement.

"The people who endorse vaccines the big pharma companies the cdc and the FDA none of those groups give a damn about children or people in general. "

Google Alerts are an amazing thing... Do you realize how ridiculous that statement is on its face? No one in the CDC gives a damn about people? Why do you think they're there? I can quibble with some of their philosophies (especially when they dabble in nutrition political correctness), but a lot of us would not be here if it weren't for work that the CDC has done. As for the pharma companies, you do realize that most vaccines are not patentable, right? They don't make any money on them. They pretty much supply them as a public service. And don't even start babbling about thimerosal, which was phased out of child vaccines decades ago even though controlled studies on its effects have been inconclusive at worst.

Yeah, this is another Google Alerts spammer that we'll never hear from again.

I have actually posted here many times.i didn't mention thimersol. However it still can be found in many vaccines unless you request the specific brand that has omitted it. The cdc is a government run agency I don't believe any portion of the government really gives a damn about anyone except to proliferate itself. Regardless of my personal thoughts no one should be told/pressured/forced to put something in their bodies they don't want. Especially when those substances are harmful.

Sorry but the mid-1900's were scary times for a lot of people due to childhood diseases.

I can be sensitive to someone having a reaction but you can't ignore the benefits of vaccinations to the general population.

They will be required more and more in the future just due to the increase in kids getting sick, so enjoy your 'feel-good' moment while you can.

"The 189 cases of measles in the U.S. last year is small compared with the 530,000 cases the country used to see on average each year in the 20th century. But, the disease — which started to wane when a vaccine was introduced in 1967 — is one of the most contagious in the world and could quickly go from sporadic nuisance to widespread killer."

http://www.wzzm13.com/story/news/health/2014/04/07/vaccine-movement-giving-diseases-2nd-life/7412315/

So the fact that my child was injured by a vaccine in 2009 documented by her pediatrician. The combining factor that my husband had a nearly fatal reaction. I was told by my pediatrician were he in my position he would not vax either makes me full of shit? Amy it's truly surprising you would really be on board w governmental force. So I should sacrifice my children's health because it makes you feel better that they are pumped full of the thing that made them sick? Also a "lay" person cannot interpret good science and bad science may be very true so your suggestion is take exactly what the governmental institutions tell us to do without question because who the hell am I to question their science? That seems to fly in the face of your daily message for people to stand up for their rights as individuals. So in answer to your question yes I feel I should have the right to have differing opinion based on incredibly different experiences as well as the right to leave the house w my kids. Next you'll be suggesting my children and husband should line up for execution because they are unable to be vaccinated.

Then Lrj it is your job to homeschool your children until the other children in their school are able to get their vaccinations. You also need to leave your children at home while you go to public places like parks and grocery stores. You are actively putting people that can't be vaccinated or have immunity issues like people at hospitals at risk so you should not go to the ER or clinics either.

By the way, unless you have subscriptions to the expensive medical journals; you have not done real research, you have simply read what you wanted to hear. Which is apparent in your "it still can be found in many vaccines" comment.

Lrj, you used the word "neurotoxin".
Be specific: name it. That is, the one of concern in your case.

I ask because "credentials" don't seem to mean a lot in this discussion. However, if you know the specifics, then you can be considered qualified. If not…

Lrj, et al: Whoops. It's YOU!

In all fairness to Lrj there are people who cannot vaccinate for health reasons. These people are quite rare (>0.1% of US general population). And this vaccine intolerance is commonly inherited. Such a small group not being vaccinated is not a threat to society. There is a larger percentage who have no ill reaction to vaccines but do not develop an immunity. Many also lose their immunity with age.

But Lrj pushing her specific medical problem onto everyone else is garbage. While I don't have the exact numbers for vaccine intolerance as I said it is well below 0.1%. The risks of polio, TB, rotavirus, ... far outweigh the risks of vaccine. My wife brought up the autism concern and talked about not vaccinating our kids. I told her that was grounds for divorce for me. Neither of us has any reason to believe we are vaccine intolerant and I consider not vaccinating without cause completely irresponsible.

First, I never read this blog, stumbled upon it from a shared link, so I probably qualify as a "spammer" by Cousin Dave's rule. And I think this is like the fifth time in my life I've ever commented on a blog, but I couldn't resist.

First, let me say that I vaccinate my son, so fortunately we can continue to go out in public. Yay for that.

Second, Amy, what were you getting at with that P value shizz? Was that supposed to be difficult to understand? It wasn't. P is a variable measuring degree. So straightforward. Since you gave us zero context it is impossible to tell you what it was measuring or make any worthwhile remarks. But if you thought those few sentences were hard to understand, well I guess that explains why you're resorting to ad hominem arguments against poor lrj here.

Third, the science isn't all that convoluted. The only genuinely confusing part is that we can't see into people's bodies and know exactly how all of their systems are functioning, so we can't identify those who have compromised detoxification systems, and many do. So, the tricky part is probability. The toxins in vaccines can and will harm and can and will kill people who have compromised detoxification systems, which can be caused by genetic and environmental factors. Some of us have no idea whether our kid is among them. Others have indications from relatives, and others have indications from other symptoms that certain organs are not functioning properly.

You probably realize that I think your isolation proposal is crazy horse crap. The benefit of herd immunity is that it protects people who are at risk for vaccine related injury, babies who are too young are just a subgroup here. As humans, we should be empathetic to more than just the babies. But if that's not your thang, well I'm sure enlightenment will find you some day.

It's great that you show the ability to empathize since you care about babies who cannot be vaccinated for certain things yet. But what seems fair and less insane would be to have parents of young babies limit their exposure to the world since even the vaccine manufacturers themselves will admit that vaccines are not always effective. Unfortunately we can't quarantine all the people whose vaccinations were ineffective. It would suck, much like it would suck for a human with a weak detox system to live in isolation for life. But it's an option. My 13 month old hasn't been vaccinated against measles yet, but at least given the current rate of occurrence, and the rate of mortality thereof (which decreases an already tiny percentage by another factor of 1000), I'm taking my chances on coming in contact with other humans.

But it's absurd if the parent of a baby who isn't old enough to be vaccinated because it's unsafe gets mad at the parent of an older human with a compromised system who also shouldn't be vaccinated because it's unsafe and dared to go out in public. And there are doctors who WILL tell parents of predisposed kids NOT to vaccinate. As far as I know, they don't also recommend quarantine but maybe you're more qualifies on that.

Almost lastly, check the CDC's finding on the Hib vaccine during the 90s. Triple the autism rate in vaccinated boys. Even if formulation has changed, these agencies aren't always on top of the science. That's all there is to it.

Lastly, when did you get your last round of boosters everyone? Do you really think you're still immunized?

Toward peace: http://mommingfinley.blogspot.com/2014/01/vaccines-there-is-no-answer.html

Rachel I have a simple question. What about twin studies?

If one identical twin has autism then the other one has a 90% chance of having it.

If they are non identical it drops to 20%.

Both groups get vaccines at the same time and on the same day from the same batches. If the twins are boy/girl the chances of the girl having autism drop even lower. That is consistent with genetics.

What about the fact that autism runs very high in science/computer/math families?

What about people who never get vaccines who still get autism? What about the fact that autism diagnosis is still rising even as people are not vaccinating?

If you have ADHD your child is more likely to have autism.

And I've read studies that show that babbling and the position of the head when a baby is lifted can predict autism.

I personally think it is caused while the mother is pregnant. Much like gayness.

Jebus Rachel. I couldn't get by her saying right off the bat " BUT WE'RE IN AN OVERPOPULATED WORLD." Fucking crunt.

It’s kind of funny to me how some people can have the simple view that vaccinated kids = good, and unvaccinated kids = flesh eating zombies bent on world destruction. The simple fact is that disease transmission is very complicated. In the recent “outbreaks” many of the effected have been vaccinated adults. Why is this? Simply because an incredibly low percent of adults get their booster shots. Specifically the measles and mumps “outbreaks” that have occurred in high risk areas such as college campuses. All adults working in such high risk settings are advised to get 1-2 MMR boosters, but I honestly think that 90% of adults don’t prescribe to this advice. If you are so bend on pointing the finger, please check with your doctor to make sure you are 100% up to date on your adult vaccine boosters (which many many people aren’t).
In addition, live viruses such as the measles and mumps vaccine can shed for a week after people are inoculated, making it possible for other to contract these diseases from them. A newly vaccinated kindergartener is just as dangerous to an immune compromised patient.
Lastly, despite what you are saying, people can be injured by these vaccines. The CDC themselves states that the measles vaccines has a 1 in 3000 chance of causing seizures in those injected. That is why the government has set up this thing called a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund that has paid out $2 billion dollars to family that have experienced these severe side effects. In fact, a portion on what you pay for every vaccine is taxed to be put aside for this fund.

"Lastly, despite what you are saying, people can be injured by these vaccines."

Who said people cannot be injured by these vaccines? You are either copy and pasting or just looking for a high word count. Either way, please stay lean.

Just commenting on your attack of Lrj where you basically call her a liar for saying her lo was vaccine injured. It happens. That's why people are leery about vaccines. A fact that many shove-it-down-ur-throat-vaxxers seem to ignore.

I did not comment to Lrj, only you. I'm not Cousin Dave. In addition, I do not see where Cousin Dave said people cannot be injured by vaccines. I stand by my comments.

The toxins in vaccines can and will harm and can and will kill people who have compromised detoxification systems, which can be caused by genetic and environmental factors. -- Rachel at April 9, 2014 4:59 PM

Other than egg allergies, please list the toxins in vaccines that you are referring to.

I truly need to know what toxins I have been injected with.

I don't think anyone called Lrj an liar. Just an idiot. And if your pediatrician wouldn't vaccinate, either, he's an idiot, too.

Regardless of my personal thoughts no one should be told/pressured/forced to put something in their bodies they don't want - Lrj

A few thoughts.
1. Inst their a test for vaccine reactions?
2. Lrj didnt start out saying her kid and husband had reactions, she started out saying she wasnt vaxxing

3. If indeed "no one should be told/pressured/forced to put something in their bodies they don't want" then wouldnt you ethically keep your kids segregated in order to not force disease into the bodies of those they interact with?

Or is it only YOUR family that deserves such consideration?

It's a damned conspiracy. Those vaccines are just horse pee and microchips designed to let the satellites track your thoughts.

I know it's true because government is evil. This is easily proven: just ask yourself if Jesus was elected.

No? My point exactly. My logic is impeccable!

If anyone follows that Twitter thingy, check out Jenny McCarthy's latest.

She asked people what they look for in a mate, and the responses were variations on "someone who's been inoculated", natch.

I'm sure I'm failing to respond to some stuff directed at me, but time is limited.

Most importantly I want to reply to the dude who called me a fucking cunt because I get a kick out of that level of aggression on the internet for probably obvious reasons and I want to encourage to keep his blood pressure raging. Overpopulated, yea. Because the way this number of humans is living is completely unsustainable. If we change that unsustainability I'll go ahead and retract that word.

Also to the autism interrogation. Two words, multiple causes. I HARDLY think vaccines cause autism, probably very rarely at best. I think there are other factors responsible for a much greater percentage. I even think TV contributes. Gasp. Again those results were the cdc's own findings.

The twin genetic predisposition thing, I read that comment quickly but it sounds like you supported my point. We're talking predisposition and risk, not guarantee.

Yes, Rachel, but what you seem to be demanding are guarantees: Unless the vaccines can be proven to be absolutely zero risk (which of course is impossible), then people should be in the moral right to just skip it if they don't feel like it. And we use pseudo-scientific garbage like this to justify it:

"so we can't identify those who have compromised detoxification systems, and many do. "

Question for you: How do such people survive the toxins that their own body produces? After all, that's why alcoholics die: they destroy their livers, and then they die of their body's own industrial pollution. That's what jaundice is: the body being unable to eliminate its self-produced toxins. Or you among the millions who mistankenly believe that there is some fundemantal difference between the body's own organic products and "chemicals"? (And after all, we all know chemicals are bad, right?) Don't even go there with the "natural" stuff on me. Botulism and ricin are products of nature.

And: An unqualified and overdue apology to Lrj for accusing her of being a Google Alert spammer. A little voice in the back of my head insisted I was wrong as I was writing that. I should have listened.

Going to throw my two cent anecdata in the ring.

My youngest sister (12 years younger than me) got pneumonia three times before she was a year old, and each time coincided with a round of vaccinations. She got her shots, and less than a week later would be sick. While I don't know that it was causal, and I doubt it could be proven either way, it was a pattern, and her pediatrician, based on her specific case recommended not getting the regular schedule of vaccines. Instead of getting four things at once, she got one at a time, and she stopped getting sick afterwards.

A few years down the road, at age 5, my sister was diagnosed with asthma, and I think it is likely that was the issue all along, that either she had undiagnosed asthma, or she just had a weak immune system that wound up causing both the multiple cases of pneumonia and the asthma.

The important thing to note is that even with a pattern that could clearly be linked to vaccines, her pediatrician never recommended that she just forgo vaccines altogether. Also, her treatment was based on her specific case.

If you or your child are allergic to ingredients in vaccines, or have a bad reaction, by all means, don't get that particular vaccine. Or work with your doctor to come up with a plan for care. But don't act like you're better than someone who has no reaction and does vaccinate.

"Most importantly I want to reply to the dude who called me a fucking cunt because I get a kick out of that level of aggression on the internet for probably obvious reasons and I want to encourage to keep his blood pressure raging."

I called the writer of the link you posted a fucking crunt. However, if the shoe fits wear it. I don't hate to disappoint you, my blood pressure is not raging.

"Overpopulated, yea. Because the way this number of humans is living is completely unsustainable."

Wow. Earth is overpopulated because of the way people are living is completely unsustainable. Because, why? To borrow Crid's famous line, how old are you?

What do you yahoos care if she vaccinates or not??? Your damn vaccines work, right???? Rest easy sheeple. Your kids couldn't possible catch a vaccine-preventable illness because vaccines work so well.

Jaxxy, who is the she you are talking about?

"Your kids couldn't possible catch a vaccine-preventable illness because vaccines work so well."

Evidently you are lacking in the skill of reading comprehension or you didn't read what has been written above.

Still waiting for Lrj to cite the neurotoxin involved.
Still waiting for anti-vaxers to discover the link above, which shows autism begins in utero.

Meanwhile...