Don't they have like a 15% success rate?

Don't they have like a 15% success rate?

Posted by: NicoleK at June 14, 2014 11:34 PM

And what do you think the success rate of going it alone is?

Everything is relative.

And what do you think the success rate of going it alone is?

I've seen a success rate of 3 percent for AA.

Also -- Peele:

http://www.thefix.com/content/heretic?page=all

Some 75% of all alcoholics overcome their “disease” without formal treatment in a hospital or rehab center or lifelong twelve-step practice.

More: "In writing, researching and treating addiction, everything I do is predicated on the assumption that the abstinence-only approach is hopelessly unrealistic, imposing an all-or-nothing edict encourages addicts to view recovery as never picking up another drink or drug for the rest of their lives. By solely promoting abstinence, we misconceive the possibilities for change, creating treatment goals that are usually quickly violated while misallocating our efforts and resources. For example, it is much wiser to help people (particularly young people) to develop skills in daily living and to achieve specific short-term goals than to focus on their never drinking or using drugs again. It is also cheaper and more efficient—residential therapy is simply far too expensive to work as a public-health measure.

Taken to an extreme, as in the twelve-step custom of counting the days since you last used (and marking milestones with “coins”) —even a single relapse can erase many months of hard-earned sobriety. Consequently, A.A.'s insistence on abstinence seems to me not only cruel but self-defeating. (This fixation on purity runs deep in the American character with its source in the spirit of Protestantism and the Calvinist doctrine of predestination—salvation completely independent of your own actions—but that’s another story, although not irrelevant to the particular religiosity of A.A.)"

A comment there on that Peele post at The Fix:

Steven G • 3 years ago
I was forced into AA by family members concerned (and rightly so!) about my abuse and addiction to prescription pain killers. I agreed that I would benefit from professional detoxification and the month long stay would get me started on the road to sobriety.

Instead of a month of getting better, I endured a month of the standard AA abuse. At the first meeting, I was stunned when someone read the ubiquitous quote: “Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.”

I couldn’t believe people actually bought into this. My “cult religion” radar went into high alert and I actually asked for clarification about what the person was reading from. All I could think about was how manipulative, coercive and sanctimonious these people were. They were basically saying “If you don’t believe in our religion, you’re a hopeless loser and a liar”. It’s sad that people who are truly looking for some help are sucker punched by this bizarre religious cult.

The only consistent thing I found in AA was a bunch of “old timers” whose entire sense of self worth came from dispensing clichés and “cult” wisdom to naïve and desperate newcomers (of the opposite sex if possible!). The most insidious aspect of AA was the sharp divide between the sanctimonious control freaks posing as benevolent “sponsors” and the people who just needed some real honest support. I could never recommend AA to anyone. How can telling someone that they’re “insane, selfish, egotistical liars that are powerless to change unless they confess all their sins to a ‘God of Your Choice’ who will grant 24 hour miracles so long as you convert other people and go around apologizing and attending meetings the rest of your life.”
G

I think that if you really want to change, you will, and no amount of coercion of any kind will get you to do that unless and until you're ready.

That said, if AA works for some people, fine, but "the sanctimonious control freaks posing as benevolent “sponsors”" need to get over themselves and recognize that not everyone is going to respond well or do well, doing it "their" way. I weaned myself off of the crap I was doing by myself. And since I've been drug-free I find I don't miss it. Cocaine is a bitch. I hate her. Weed and wine are fine, and I still love them. In MODERATION. And that's the key.

Look into The Sinclair Method, currently advocated by Claudia Christian on her FB page and elsewhere.

I've been sober in AA for over 28 years and I don't recognize most of what has been written here.

I have never seen a situation where an opposite sex sponsor was suggested to a newcomer. If a person chooses not to stay with the first sponsor, it is up to them to ask someone else and we strongly suggest men with men and women with women.

I don't agree with anyone being forced to go to AA meetings, by the courts or by family as Steven G. was. It's not surprising that he saw it as abuse if he didn't want to be there. As Flynne wrote,

"I think that if you really want to change, you will, and no amount of coercion of any kind will get you to do that unless and until you're ready."

This is why AA is a program of "attraction rather than promotion". We don't go around proselytizing. Come in if you're interested and leave if you don't find what you are looking for.

If you have found another solution for your drinking problem, I'm happy for you. I'll never say that AA is the only way, just that it works for me.

When someone needs to stop drinking, then it's up to them to find whatever works. Maybe it's AA, so give it a try. But, if you're not ready to stop drinking then it's not going to work for you. A majority of people can't just stop drinking. Harm reduction never works for alcoholics.

This is a reprehensible post.

Amy, you've never helped anyone kick ANYTHING.

In general I find there are two types of critics of self help programs like AA

The first group are nanny state do gooders, with too much time on their hands.

The other group are paid shills for the extremely lucritive addiction treatment industry.

I think you're WAY, WAY out of your depth. No degree, no training, no challenge from experienced care-givers or law enforcement... But you've had a few personal experiences, and sunny, layperson readings, of which you're inordinately proud.

There's more to helping people than a bogus posture of renegade truth-telling to the Man. The depth of misery represented in this topic deserves better.

This one isn't about a teenager who argues with their parents too much.

Reminds me of a good feature from long ago in MAD Magazine: "Parental Hang-Ups."

Not verbatim:

"Parents have a hang-up about...accepting responsibility. Which may explain why your dad starts pointing out all your shortcomings when you suggest he join Alcoholics Anonymous."

Amy, what you are saying is the exact opposite of my experience. I had problems dealing with emotions and life in general until I started going to AA meetings in my early 30's. Drinking was the only way I could get some peace.

Once I learned how to deal with things, the urge to drink want away. I went to several meetings a week in the beginning when I needed frequent support. Now I usually go to one a week. That one hour a week lets me live the other 167 with peace and enjoyment.

Fuckin' Steamer, Amy… Even Steamer.



It was weerd... All afternoon, I had this almost-musical ostinato circuiting the cortex... Like the chant of isolated villagers in a full moon after a weak harvest in Papua New Guinea or the Amazon... Again and again, like a teenage pop song with you're thirty...

"Technicolor splotches"...   "Technicolor splotches"...   "Tech"...

   "Technicolor splotches"...   "Technicolor splotches"....

And now I'm all like, we did this one already.