Why would it indicate race hatred?

Your answer is there: "college student writes"

Gay males copy whatever female trope is attractive in their culture. Whatever people say white and blacks share a common culture: American.

Do they also mention the obsession black gay men had with Barbie? Looking like Barbie, acting like Barbie, dressing like Barbie?

Hispanic gay men have an obsession with telenovela like women like Thalia....but they love Beyonce....and Madonna.

The real enigma that college girlsmshould be writing about is why gay men have such bad taste in female singers.

You know, were I the conniving type who like to stir up trouble, well I'd just accuse this cisgendered hetero normative girl of homophobia. And racism.

While I agree that we live in an international world where cultural ideas are exchanged, I do also think it's important to listen to these sorts of complaints. It's all very well for me as an established white person to say it's ok for me to appropriate elements of their culture, but if it truly is bothering them, I should be respectful of that.

This comes up a -lot- in the pagan community, where in their attempt to connect with deity, people use techniques, imagery and mythology from a lot of different cultures. Many people from some cultures, many of which are Native American, get really ticked off about it and consider it a form of theft. Whether they're right or wrong is one thing, but the fact is, why do something if it insults a lot of people? Is that a good way to connect with your deity?

So no more christmas then, right?

It is after all an appropriated winter solstice celebration.

It's all very well for me as an established white person to say it's ok for me to appropriate elements of their culture

consider it a form of theft

why do something if it insults a lot of people

I join with Mannie in bemoaning the type of white queen who struts around in a kind of performative blackface, claiming to hold a "strong black woman" captive inside himself and invoking other Tyler Perry-like caricatures with oblivious glee. This kind of behavior, I think it goes without saying, is racist.

SO...let me see if I have this right: if a man dresses up as a woman, and calls himself...excuse me, herself a transgender, I'm the racist, sexist homophobe but she's not try to appropriate "women's culture"?

SO...if she can be transgendered, why can't I be transrace? Or as Steve Martin said I was born a poor black child.

"It's all very well for me as an established white person to say it's ok for me to appropriate elements of their culture, but if it truly is bothering them, I should be respectful of that."

Screw that. America is the big cultural blender. What we call "white culture" is actually a mash-up of a whole bunch of different European cultures, with some east Asia thrown in for good measure. There was a time in America when people of British background were prejudiced against Germans, who where prejudiced against Italians, and they were all prejudiced against Poles and Armenians. The concept of lumping all of the European-background cultures into the heading of "white" is a 20tb-century-American conceit. Ask a Frenchman what his ethnicity is -- he won't say "white", he'll say "French".

(There are some good reasons why we Americans have done that... looking at the history of Europe between 1800 and 1950 explains a lot.)

"why do something if it insults a lot of people? "

Sometimes that is precisely why you should do it.

I've always been confused about cultural appropriation. I thought of America as I'm melting pot. I took a class about culture in college and found it quite interesting. We had to trace our cultural roots. I was resistant. I thought of myself as an American not have any specific at ethnicity. I found out that I am a mixture of Norwegian, Swedish, Cherokee, English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and German. I may have a heritage of even more ethnicities because I was only able to trace a fraction of my background due to the time frame.

I see myself as more of an American than my cultures of origin. I feel closer to my neighbors where as an Anglo, I'm a minority. It seems only natural to be influenced by a neighborhood where Anglos are the minority and the majority is only a few generations or less away from their native culture. It feels more natural to me to be influenced by the people surrounding me than by my long ago ancestors. I guess that we are just supposed to stay in our little boxes or by thought of as appropriating different ctures? In my view, I come from a long line of people exploring and adapting who picked up different cultures along the way. We never stayed in our own little neighborhoods. Our small family is scattered with close relatives in England, Japan, Germany, New York, Arizona, California, Texas, and Kentucky. I want to be respectful but find it rather confusing. It seems to be racist is who adopt certain styles, but it also seems racist if you embrace certain styles.

Personally, I'm thrilled about some aspects of cultural appropriation. I'm finding that in appearance people are embracing differences. Full lips and ample rears are seen as sexy rather than something to hide. I wouldn't get butt implants but it's nice to be proud of the way I look. I embraced naturally kinky hair almost 10 years ago. I wouldn't have been able to do that without Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, or Beyoncé. I guess that I can't be accused of cultural appropriation because it's how I'm made, but I have been influenced by different cultures. And I wouldn't be surprised at all to add African American to my cultural succotash.

Yeah, I continue to disagree. As someone who isn't being kicked around, I should listen when people say they feel kicked around by me. Because it is very easy to step on people carelessly.

Here's the thing about appropriation; it is very often not done in a way that is taking into account the cultural aspects of the thing, just the "cool" of it.

Take the people who like native american culture so they will wear a feathered headdress. So Jane Q. Hipsterchick goes on Etsy and buys herself a feathered head-dress because she admires native american style sooooo much. But the problem is that warbonnets are an actual thing. There are serious cultural traditions that are wrapped up in warbonnets that have nothing to do with looking cool. Jane Q Hipsterchick is not honoring the culture, she's just taking what she thinks is neat. That is the bad sort of appropriation.

In a more grey area you have issues like NicoleK brought up with pagans looking for spiritual practices that resonate with them.

And then you have the stuff that is clearly an okay sort of appropriation like Jen being able to embrace her naturally kinky hair.

Honestly, I understand viscerally where they're coming from even if it's extremely small stakes. For years, comic book conventions were enclaves of fans passionate about a few specific niches of entertainment. I loved that. My passion for these niches was part of how I defined myself. Then suddenly geek becomes chic. Now it's an opportunity for entertainment companies to advertise to us by using demographic tested ads to seem like they belong there. Newcomers ruined some significant portions of the culture because they didn't understand how it worked. It's hard to tell the real fans from the people who are there for the flash in the pan. Beyond that, there are shows like Big Bang Theory that take the "cool" of geekdom without really appreciating why things are that way. (My husband refers to that show - tongue planted firmly in cheek - as "nerd blackface.") I can only imagine how much more upsetting it would be if they were coopting something that was much more important to me than comic books.

Heh, IRA, and now I will confess something that makes me very unpopular whenever I say it out loud. Or type it...

Yeah. It pisses me off when some guy says he "feels" like a woman or has "a woman's brain".

Because as far as I'm concerned, the only common women's experience IS the bio stuff. We worry about getting our periods or not getting them. We worry about fertility... getting pregnant at the wrong time, or not getting pregnant at the right time. Eventually possible hot flashes and other menopause symptoms. That sort of stuff. That's IT. That's all I know I have in common with other women. Being a woman isn't a state of mind. It's a bunch of bio facts. That's all.

Sometimes I take tests online that say I have a "man's brain". Because I'm good at geometry. So, apparently according to modern gender theory, since sex is all in your brain, now I'm not a woman? WTF? Monthly blood spurts and pushing a person out of my nether regions say otherwise.

If some guy wants to get a dress and take hormones and get surgery to look different fine by me. But it's not like he's joining some club or something. We might share common states of mind, we might not. Just like any other person.

And yep, it's easy for me to say all this as a cis woman (god I hate that recently made up term to describe me). And unfair and all, too. But there you go.

I've just outed myself as a hypocrite. Again.

Yeah. It pisses me off when some guy says he "feels" like a woman or has "a woman's brain".

Studies done on inter-sexed chickens show gender is imprinted at the cellular level. So that guy could possibly have a woman's brain. Or maybe a man brains and a woman's hypothalamus and endocrine system.

Its discussions like these that make me wish I were less ethical and even smarter than I am. I'd make a great mad scientist

"If some guy wants to get a dress and take hormones and get surgery to look different fine by me. But it's not like he's joining some club or something. "

What's kind of amusing is, PM feminists have exactly the opposite view of this -- to them, the trannies are gate-crashers, uninvited guests at their exclusive party.

Here's the thing: The origin of these complaints is not with those people whose culture is being "appropriated." It's mostly with white academics. The non-white folks don't generally start complaining until white people convince them they should. So what's more racist - wearing an interesting piece of clothing, or manipulating an ethnic group into helping you advance your politics?

So, I guess only Italian people can eat at Italian restaurants, etc.

It's like saying "we can't call a sports team "The Braves" because it insults Native Americans." It's absurd (or perhaps somebody can recall being insulted by being called "brave," which coincidentally, is NOT a Native American word).

It's one thing to make fun of people, it's another to say "oh hey, that art/style of clothes/music/etc is really neat" and get into it. Or is imitation no longer the sincerest form of flattery?

To me the hypocracy is that we are 1.) supposed to admire every culture that isn't "white America" because they are all better (not that I've heard it said, but that is the clear message in most/all history/social studies classes I ever took) and 2.) while they are so admirable and good (and we are bad) it is WRONG to act like them. So, we are destined to be bad whatever we do. Defeatist thinking.

To me this is a non-issue ... I say, honestly, let whoever they want be and act like whatever gender they feel they want to be like, as long as they don't harm anyone. Who cares? Can't we get worked up over 'real' issues rather? What a waste of human energy even bothering about it. Meanwhile there are e.g. potential existential threats to our species that we're ignoring completely ... and won't notice because we're too busy squabbling about, 'OMG, that person has a penis but wants to wear a dress! So wrong!'

> Sometimes I take tests online that say I have a "man's brain"

Any online test that claims you have a "man's brain" is likely mostly nonsensical and most definitely not 'scientific' ... those types of tests are extremely over-simplistic, loosely empirical at best, and are primarily designed as entertainment, not intended to be revelatory science-based insights.

We don't even remotely have enough knowledge of the human brain and of genetics to make claims like that - i.e. we just don't have the knowledge, and are VERY FAR from having the knowledge, to be able to make claims like 'this specific part of the brain does X and we know is a gender-specific product of having XX (or XY) chromosome pairs respectively'. It may well be that some parts of the brain are specific to genders in that way, but we're decades away from understanding that. We can make some crude broad empirical judgments, yes, that men are more likely to think or act in this way, and females more likely to think or act in some other way, in particular domains ... sure ... but to say something like "a man's brain", that doesn't even mean anything.

The brain is extremely complex, and so are the interactions between genetics, environment, and hormones ... what drives a person's sense of gender is grounded in so many complex details, I tend to take someone's word for it when they say they 'feel' like this or that because we don't have the knowledge to dispute that, but empirically, we know that many people make such claims, and it's so universal - and the details of the claims so particular, even while universal (e.g. you can listen to a Chinese person describe why they 'feel like a man in a woman's body' or vice versa, or listen to a Causasian describing the same thing on the other side of the planet .... they'll have such similar descriptions of the experience that I find it hard to believe they're just making it up).

> To me this is a non-issue

To be clear, I meant the gender thing is a non-issue to me, not the cultural appropriation thing.

Mind you, that too.

Sorry, just to clarify:

> It may well be that some parts of the brain are specific to genders in that way

I meant 'it is that way' - by 'it may well be' I just meant we don't have solid genetic/neuroscience on such claims regarding the brain itself.

> ... but to say something like "a man's brain", that doesn't even mean anything.

Sorry, again I meant it doesn't mean anything in terms of 'current science' - not that there aren't differences, of course there are - we just don't understand the neurological underpinnings well enough to make 'online quiz's' that can tell you anything much useful.

Here's my online gender quiz:

Do you:
A) Want lots of pairs of shoes
B) Couldn't be bothered, who needs more than two pairs of shoes?

If you answered 'A', you're a woman, if 'B', you're a man ... there we go.

"To me the hypocracy is that we are 1.) supposed to admire every culture that isn't 'white America' because they are all better."

An excellent point that I meant to get back to... no academics complain about the "appropriation" of, say, Belgian culture. It's just another of the false bargains that the Left offers to ethnic groups -- support our agenda uncritically, and we'll grant you privileges. Unti the day that we decide to take them away, you white Hispanic.

We have quite a history of immigration to this country, some of it forced, yet we don't name sports teams The Dagoes, The Micks, The Spicks, or Them Musical Nigras. Why for no, por que?

It is, I think, the difference between the Washington Redskins and the Florida State Seminoles.