It Seems The Israelis Aren't Helpless Or Dead Enough To Be Sympathetic
There's an LA Times op-ed about Israel's missile defense system (intercepting and destroying incoming rockets and artillery shells), "Should Israel and the U.S. rethink Iron Dome's usefulness?" by Benny Morris:
Strategically speaking, the Iron Dome antimissile shield, precisely because of its effectiveness, has been disastrous for Israel: It has saved Hamas from destruction and it has helped to seriously undermine Israel's image as a civilized state in the eyes of many in the West.During the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict, Iron Dome has efficiently protected Israel from massive damage and casualties. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the other terrorist organizations operating in the Gaza Strip had launched 2,648 rockets against Israel, and that was before a temporary cease-fire was broken Tuesday. Most fell in empty fields. The 600-odd rockets that had accurately targeted towns and villages were almost all successfully intercepted by Iron Dome's Tamir missiles -- a nearly 90% success rate, according to the Israel Defense Forces.
The civilian death toll in Israel consisted of only two citizens and a Thai guest worker. Had there been no Iron Dome, dozens, perhaps hundreds, of civilians would have been killed; buildings would have fallen. Civilian Israel would have ground to a halt.
No Israeli government could withstand the public pressure that this would have unleashed: The government would have been forced to quickly launch a massive ground invasion of Gaza ...
If there had been a massive IDF ground invasion, within two or three months Gaza's towns and villages would have been cleared, house by house, of Hamas fighters. Hamas, and its fellow organizations, would have been destroyed as a military and political force. Israel would have been relieved, for a decade or two, of the need to worry about a southern front; the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas would have been free, or freer, to cut a deal with Israel; and the destruction of Hamas would have sent a clear message about Israeli resolve and capabilities to all its actual or potential enemies (I include Islamic State, fast-approaching Israel's eastern frontier, among the latter).
...If there were footage of shattered buildings in Tel Aviv, and the dead and dying lying in the streets of the coastal cities of Ashdod and Ashkelon, few around the world would condemn Israel for a massive air and ground assault against a palpably murderous Hamas, with the aim of destroying it. Over the months needed to pacify and demilitarize Gaza, no doubt protests would emerge. But the protests would have been less strident than they are today. Israel would weather the international indignation far better; Israel would be better understood.
Aw, how sweet. Just lie down and die and the world will think so much better of you.
He's an interesting guy with an interesting bio, and uh, it's an interesting thesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris
jerry at August 22, 2014 12:00 AM
I hope the Kurds get their Israel.
It seems the only way to live in that region and protect your own people from genocide is to have an officially recognized state.
Ppen at August 22, 2014 1:26 AM
I'm sorry but why should war be reciprocal and need an equal number of casualties on both sides to make it "fair"
Where the fuck did that notion come from?
lujlp at August 22, 2014 4:24 AM
I'm sorry but why should war be reciprocal and need an equal number of casualties on both sides to make it "fair"
Where the fuck did that notion come from?
lujlp at August 22, 2014 4:24 AM
...terrorist organizations...launched 2,648 rockets against Israel... The civilian death toll in Israel consisted of only two citizens and a Thai guest worker. Had there been no Iron Dome, dozens, perhaps hundreds, of civilians would have been killed...
And this is somehow bad. The government should not have defended its populace, because otherwise Israel would have had to do a full-out attack, and
If there had been a massive IDF ground invasion, within two or three months Gaza's towns and villages would have been cleared, house by house, of Hamas fighters.
This, because Hamas fighters are so obviously distinguishable from the populace they hide in, and because they are all in Gaza, with no additional terrorists coming in from outside.
What kind of fantasy world does this idiot live in? As long as there is a civilian populace, terrorists can hide themselves within it. There is exactly one way to eliminate all Hamas fighters from Gaza, and that involves turning the entire Gaza strip into a large crater.
a_random_guy at August 22, 2014 4:44 AM
There are two ways to eliminate all Hamas fighters from Gaza, both highly unpalatable, even for someone like me, who sees the people sheltering Hamas as morally equivalent to them (if they didn't want it, they should resist them to the point where demonstrations and violence against Hamas occur): 1)Make a desert and call it peace by leveling Gaza, exporting its citizens to Egypt or Jordan, or 2) Any Hamas fighter you find automatically forfeits his family's right to freedom, and they get to be sent to Iran or Syria to become slaves of ISIS. Have a Muslim scholar confirm that this is righteous by interpreting the Quran and its ancillary documents the way you want.
spqr2008 at August 22, 2014 5:05 AM
Ah, what is the function of intellectuals, but to tell us things are not as ordinary people perceive them?
Art Deco at August 22, 2014 6:18 AM
Gaza is largely an UNRWA welfare dump. There are some other sources of income, but that's the main one. It is quite doubtful that the population can ever acquire the skill set to render the place an Arab version of Singapore or Hong Kong. The quality of the land around it is such that low density pastoralism is about the only sensible use of it. Prior to 1948, the town itself had fewer than 30,000 inhabitants.
The most sensible destinations for the populace therein would be the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan, where the vernacular dialect spoken is similar. Egyptian Arabic is very commonly understood due to the prevalence of mass entertainment which makes use of it and the number of expatriate Egyptian teachers, so Egypt might be another destination.
Art Deco at August 22, 2014 6:24 AM
Hamas threw a little hissy fit and executed a bunch of Palestinians.
Business as usual for that bunch.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at August 22, 2014 7:38 AM
Can we send him over there w/a label on his forehead that says "US Press"?
Bob in Texas at August 22, 2014 7:49 AM
few around the world would condemn Israel for a massive air and ground assault against a palpably murderous Hamas, with the aim of destroying it
What world does this idiot live in? Of course they'd be condemned nonetheless. Offering up some civilian sacrifices won't change that.
The most sensible destinations for the populace therein would be the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, or Jordan
Got news for you Art Deco - none of them want Gazans or Hamas. Especially not Jordan. They had a civil war to kick Hezbollah out, the last thing they would want is an influx of the same again. Egypt want nothing to do with them either.
Ltw at August 22, 2014 9:04 AM
They had a civil war to kick Hezbollah out, the last thing they would want is an influx of the same again.
Um, no. They ejected Al Fatah and various other winglets of the P.L.O from their territory in September 1970. Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah existed at that time.
Art Deco at August 22, 2014 10:06 AM
Just lie down and die and the world will think so much better of you.
Although the author does say "Israel would weather the international indignation far better", I don't see that as his main point.
I see his main point as this: "Strategically speaking, the Iron Dome antimissile shield, precisely because of its effectiveness, has been disastrous for Israel: It has saved Hamas from destruction".
I do agree with others, however, that "If there had been a massive IDF ground invasion" of Gaza, and Hamas was destroyed, that would not have resulted in less international indignation.
JD at August 22, 2014 10:53 AM
My bad Art Deco, it was elements of the PLO. Oops. My point stands though, no country in the area wants a bar of them.
Ltw at August 22, 2014 3:45 PM
Sadly, it looks like Israel should be seen a bit more sympathetically after today's rocket killing of a 4 year old Israeli boy
http://www.timesofisrael.com/day-46-hamas-vows-revenge-fires-rockets-kills-collaborators-after-strikes-on-its-terror-chiefs/
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Morris' argument is similar to arguments I agree with against the US Drone program.
Using drones while saving US troop lives makes war too easy for politicians, makes "collateral damage" too easy, and creates backlash.
jerry at August 22, 2014 4:35 PM
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