Did I ever talk about the weekend of work I did at the Hemet compound? Probably.

…No, as it happens, I didn't ever get paid… How did you know?


See, this is one reason I think it's kind of silly to worry too much about Islam.

Islam appeals to primitivism, ignorance and childishness. While universal in youth, these qualities are readily drained from modern adolescents, because it's so much better when you think and act like an adult.

Scientology appeals to a distinct personality, one their founder learned to identify by odor: Contentious, credulous, humorless and (surprise!) needy. Though described with concision as "assholes," people in modernity can carry these characteristics to the grave, resisting all appeals to grow the fuck up.


Scientology is tax-exempt. Are you truly worried about Islam in America?

Amy - you may have missed redacting a name, in line 7 of the second substantial paragraph.

Xenu is not pleased. (Neither is C'thulu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster).

Scientology is tax-exempt. Are you truly worried about Islam in America?

So is Islam...

Is Scientology likely to be a criminal conspiracy? yes.

Are the Top Dogs in Scientology committed to doing whatever it takes to stay Top Dogs no matter how nasty that is? yes.

But I am unfamiliar with the verse from Ron L telling the faithful to strike the unbeliever in the neck and to wage war upon them. Maybe that's in the forth coming book, Stuff Ron L Said by Tom Cruise?

Did I ever talk about the weekend of work I did at the Hemet compound? Probably.

I can't even imagine. Did they at least provide Kool-aid?

I took a Scientology course so I could write about it for a class I took in college. Paying $35 for a guaranteed A (the professor loved the idea) was worth it I decided, so I spent two weeks doing Scientology stuff.

After the course, they gave me the hard sell for the next course (which was almost $200). I told them thanks but no thanks and left.

For the next several months, I got at least five phone calls a day from their various phone numbers. I saved them all in my phone as "Tom Cruise." The creepiest message they left me mentioned my room mates by name, as in "Why don't you come back and bring Tara and Shivna in with you?" I had never given them those names. I also got a call congratulating me on my college graduation (the day OF my graduation) with a reminder that Scientology skills could help me in job interviews.

The phone calls trickled off, but, even five years later, I was still getting maybe one a month. The are persistent.

Crid,
I get what you are saying and agree for the most part that radical versions of Islam appeal to only to those who are mentally or developmentally challenged in some way. Why I worry more about Islam than Scientology is that we a have large permanent underclass in this country that is angry. They are under educated, under employed, and feel disenfranchised from our political culture. Scientology is expensive. It doesn’t want poor people. Islam costs nothing but your “submission” so the bar for entry is very low and it provides handy answers for why you feel bad about yourself. Most of those answers have to do with Western culture. That is how you can have born and bred Americans heading off to join ISIS with the claim that Western culture is morally bankrupt and corrupt. Meanwhile, they are joining a group that is primarily funded via the sale of drugs and who routinely rape and slaughter unbelievers (or those who show less commitment to the cause). This is why I am concerned about radical Islam in this country. We have created the conditions which make mass radicalization appealing to a not insignificant portion of our citizens.

> Thanks, the other rob, but these
> are Ebner's redactions

I'd have wagered ten grand on that.: Amy don't redact.

(And wouldn't theatrically [CAPITALIZE] even if she did.)



> Is Scientology likely to be a
> criminal conspiracy? yes.

Aggie, it's a psychological tic: You simply will not argue for your beliefs in an affirmative manner. It's always sarcastic or defensive or teenage-resentful. Today, you're asking yourself questions like you're a guest on your own talk show.

Well, who says "Scientology [is] likely to be a criminal conspiracy"? Are you saying that? Aggie?

OK, Wonderful! We're ready to believe you! Got any evidence? Got any reasoning?… Anything besides "yes."?

> unfamiliar with the verse from
> Ron L telling the faithful to
> strike the unbeliever

If, right now, Conan the Grammarian held a pistol to your temple and told you to think about it real clear-like, would you concede that you were being teenage-sarcastic when you decided to type "unfamiliar with the verse"?

Or—

And Goddammit fucker, there's no man in the world who loves you enough to pull these arguments out of your mumbling, seventh-grade mouth for you AND THEN TYPE THEM UP—

Or— Are you seriously concerned that everyone in Islam, were they in a position to understand the full scope of civilization's wealth and achievement, would nonetheless be enthusiastic about that "strike the unbeliever" shit?

WE CAN'T TELL WHAT YOU'RE THINKING, Aggie. There are two possible reasons for this:

1. You're too inarticulate to express yourself, so you don't really even try... You just snipe when people's backs are turned.

2. You're too torpid to think it through and share your insights.

The food wasn't bad! They put us non-adherents in our own (comfortable!) dining room. If we were meant to feel slighted by the segregation, we weren't.

Honestly, I still want my money... But I enjoy the itching and swelling from the resentment far more than I could ever enjoy the check. Seeing their little rituals and game-playing up close was genuinely instructive. There are gentle nuances (and howling overtones) in a Scientologist's desperation that I'd never have identified without the immersion.

To wit:




> agree for the most part that radical
> versions of Islam appeal to only to
> those who are mentally or
> developmentally challenged

No no... Not challenged, just undercooked. The appeal of Islam's (presumptive) dominion is universal in the human heart.

All young people want simple-to-understand answers to everything right now. (Every stand-up comedian who survives to middle age has a routine that goes like this.) Kids want authoritative answers from a big, simple book... Even if those answers don't make sense, and even if they themselves don't know how to read. Naive people want to be told that everything's under control, and that there will be no further penalty for being stupid.

But in the modern world, and in the better corners of the impoverished world, kids grow up a little and figure out that lives can be much better than their local shaman promises... That they can continue to learn things and make their lives even better.


Scientology isn't that kind of animal. It appeals only to a particular kind of person. It shakes out like this:

If you're the kind of person who wants to stop quibbling (eventually) and make a decision…

And / Or

If you're the kind of person who (eventually) will think "That's ridiculous" when someone's telling you something preposterous…

And / Or

If you're the kind of person who can enjoy a joke (or a smile) for its own sake, without trying to make a larger point and without trying to manipulate someone…

And / Or

If you're the kind of person who's confident in your ability to patiently find warm friends without fearfulness or compromise…

Ok? Scientology appeals to a smallish subset of human character. There are tens of thousands of those people in the United States, and Tom Cruise and his buddies are in touch with a percentage of them. That subset will always be out there…

But most everyone you know —and everyone you like and admire— is completely immune to Scientology… And they have been since they day they were born.

> We have created the conditions which
> make mass radicalization appealing to
> a not insignificant portion of
> our citizens.

Ohpal leeeze. Don't kid a kidder.

First, it was ever thus. I bet you're middle-aged… I'm middle-aged too. The world is always, and has always been, going to Hell. The young people need to cut their hair, turn their hats around, pull up their pants and get out there and get a job. Stop eating those burgers. Stop listening to that goddam music.

And what exactly are we supposed to do about "a not insignificant portion" of some nebulous population? How many is that? What do you want? The beauty of saying things like this is you make no demands of anyone. It's what Amy's been doing here for the last five years: WakeUpSheeple, without any policy suggestions or personal anecdotes or predictions or geography or history or or or or....

> Most of those answers have to do
> with Western culture.

Angel, THAT is ridiculous.

Well Hon,
I didn't say I agreed with that philosophy, only that those that those who wish us harm use it to stoke the fires of resentment of citizens against their own country. The problem you have is equating radical Islam as a passing fad. Like someday these guys will grow up, get jobs and look back on those crazy times when bombing Times Square seemed like a fun way to spend Saturday night. Look at Ferguson, MO. That is the recruiting ground. Those people are angry and they are looking for justice however they can it. Right now, they are content to burn their own backyard, but it will not always be thus. We have large groups of people who never fully "cook" as you say, bc there is no reason for them too. They are permanent wards of the state and they get angrier with each generation. You have a lot more faith in human nature than I do. You assume it always moves forward. History tells us otherwise. Human nature can regress.

> The problem you have is equating radical
> Islam as a passing fad

The problem YOU have is telling people what their "problems" are.

Specifically, love of Christ, when the Hell did I say that "radical Islam is a passing fad"?

Goddam.

I just did a two posts saying the appeal was universal.

People wanna argue more than they wanna read.

Was it Barbara Ehrenreich who said that the real difference between a religion and a cult is, simply, the size?

In the meantime, here's what the late, great Peter McWilliams wrote in his paperback revised edition of "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society."

From the chapter "Unconventional Religious Practices" (as found in Google Books):

"Organizations such as the Cult Awareness Network (CAN) provide an invaluable service by maintaining open files on thousands of cults and cult-like groups around the world. These files are available to anyone wanting to research the background and methods of any cult.

"CAN has now been sued into submission by Scientology, which now owns CAN. For cult information, please contact the American Family Foundation in New York...

"....These files are available to anyone wanting to research the background and methods of any cult.

"I owe CAN an apology. In the hardcover edition of Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do, I'm afraid I trashed CAN. This was because (guess why?) I was under the influence of a cult (John-Roger's Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness or MSIA). Had I only read CAN's files on John-Roger and MSIA first.* But as much as I personally dislike cults, I despise any organization or individual that robs people of their individuality. I still feel the entire Waco incident was the result of an overfed federal bureaucracy gone mad, not an example of the danger of cults..."

And, from elsewhere in the book:

"The price of freedom is eternal--and internal-- vigilance. And an occasional laugh."

BTW, John-Roger just died - at 80. (Sadly, McWilliams was not so lucky - not by a long shot. He was only 50 when he died in 2000.) More on JR's death - and McWilliams' book on him after McWilliams left the cult:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.obituaries/kEto3Tdgj1g

> Was it Barbara Ehrenreich who said
> that the real difference between a
> religion and a cult is, simply,
> the size?

Well, Barb's had her moments over the years, and if that was one of them, I'm cool with it.

I prefer smaller, less-competent religions to enormous, deeply-tentacled ones. Similarly, I prefer Republicans (compelled at least to give lip service to small government) to Democrats (who proudly promise to command the lives of your grandchildren), though they're essentially indistinguishable in practical realms.

> The phone calls trickled off, but, even
> five years later, I was still getting
> maybe one a month. The are persistent.

That's kinda funny.

That happened for me with ESPN. I worked sports events in the mid-80's... Running cameras or slow-mo or pulling mic cables underneath bleachers or something at college ball games. I don't remember. But they did... Every now and then they'd be looking for crew for an upcoming game and they'd call, even though I'd moved across the country and changed the direction of the career. This went on into the 2000's. It was kind of flattering.

But the Scientologists learned what they wanted to learn about me as well, and they never called back.

That was flattering, too.

> I still feel the entire Waco incident
> was the result of an overfed federal
> bureaucracy gone mad, not an example
> of the danger of cults...

I think this is certainly correct.

I don't admire anyone who works for government.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government.

I don't care about your counterexamples. I don't care.

"I can no longer admire anyone who works for government."

I went to a government shrink recently. I rattled a list of the meds I was taking, she didn't know what they were!

That scared the shit out of me.

Thank god she's not my regular MD.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government. ~ Posted by: Crid at October 28, 2014 4:30 PM

Our county supervisors are about to vote themselves a 33% raise. I effectively took a pay cut this year ... and that's before you factor in inflation.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government.

I can no longer admire anyone who works for government.