Well, there ARE those (I'm not one of them) who would say: "If you fly, you're asking for it, so stop whining and live with it."

The answer to civil liberties violations is not to just suck it up.

"If you fly..."

I haven't flown since I picked up Aida in New Jersey in August of 2013. I think long and hard before I do anything that requires a plane flight.

There is zero evidence that I have any intention of harming anyone. There is not a reason in the world that I should have my vagina felt up by a government employee or have my possessions pawed through because I am taking a flight.

Again, this is not how we uncover terrorist plots but the sheep-like American public takes its civil liberties for granted and most people do nothing when theirs are violated or others' are.

Wait, so finish the story. You didn't take off your shoes in the airport security checkpoint -- so then did you attack the airplane? I'm very concerned that this story doesn't make me feel safe.

It's a good thing that the terrorists are too stupid to figure out how to get qualified for the Pre-check or Premium catagories. Otherwise they might be able to bypass the super slueth hamburger flippers manning the regular TSA lines.

I worked security in Metro Detroit for 12 years and I can tell you that most "Security" is "Security Theater". I called it the "Pinkerton Alarm System" when somebody came in and shot me at the front desk everyone would hear it and run away.
The Federal Air Transport Air Security Service (FATASS for short), is the worst of the bunch, hire the rent-a-cops, give them a shiny pseudo-federal badge and let them act like teenagers guarding the locker-room of the opposite sex (or same-sex or whatever). The rest of the Homeland Gestapo are no better, the only thing they are good for is abusing the citizenry.

I'm sorry the TSA fluffers weren't able to help you get your mojo on. Happy returns.

The Federal Air Transport Air Security Service (FATASS for short), is the worst of the bunch, hire the rent-a-cops,

Bwahahahaha!!! Thanks for that, coffee all over the monitor, but it was worth it!! LOL!!

Hey Amy- Did they say they didn't like your judgment about risk, and tell you to stay indoors for three weeks?

…'Cause busybodies do that sometimes.

The answer to civil liberties violations is not to just suck it up.
_____________________________

Exactly. I was dropping a hint, regarding a not-so-different topic.

How come you expect innocent people to capitulate to your irrational fears and quarantine themselves, but you object to capitulating to their groundless fears and submit to a search before you fly?

Because, Patrick, one is a real risk and not irrational like the other? Guess which is which. Any's position is consistent.

One of these days I'm going to dip my hands in fertilizer and go to the airport, just for fun. Not book a flight or anything - just fail to wash my hands after gardening. I'd love to see whether these residue tests actually pick anything up.

*Amy's position...

Apologies

"Because, Patrick, one is a real risk and not irrational like the other? Guess which is which. Any's position is consistent."

Posted by: Ltw at November 2, 2014 2:16 PM

And herein lies the problem of mathematical illiteracy.

Define *real risk*. And then quantify it with statistics, proving that one is greater than the other, by a factor worth worrying about.

"One of these days I'm going to dip my hands in fertilizer and go to the airport, just for fun. Not book a flight or anything - just fail to wash my hands after gardening. I'd love to see whether these residue tests actually pick anything up."

Posted by: Ltw at November 2, 2014 2:16 PM

I don't think their tests are very sensitive, I have been swabbed after target shooting, and they picked up nothing, after a simple cursory hand washing.

I personally think the whole swabbing exercise is just an excuse to look for nervous sweating people with something to hide.

No, Ltw. It's because you think one is a real risk. The facts do not bear your fears out, so sorry.

And no, Amy's position is not at all consistent. And she knows it, too.

She expects innocent healthcare workers to capitulate to her groundless fears, but resents capitulating to everyone else's.

I missed the key detail, it seems. What was Amy's position during her most recent TSA fluffing? Inquiring minds want to know!

The thing is, I would have agreed with you about Ebola up until the nurses caring for that man contracted it. I really could see this getting out of hand fast because of that incubation period. Thankfully, that hasn't happened, but it does not diminish that there is a risk. And it could have extrapolated oh so fast.

The thing is, I would have agreed with you about Ebola up until the nurses caring for that man contracted it. I really could see this getting out of hand fast because of that incubation period. Thankfully, that hasn't happened, but it does not diminish that there is a risk. And it could have extrapolated oh so fast.

Posted by: gooseegg at November 2, 2014 3:35 PM

Yes, there is a risk, especially when you are caring for someone which full blown Ebola. Because the risk is intimate contact with bodily fluids from a patient with full blown Ebola.

That risk doesn't exist when you are taking about asymptomatic individuals who have merely had contact with Ebola patients.

This was the case of the nurse in Maine.

You cant just order someone to stay home for three weeks in this country without agreeing to pay them for any lost income or unpaid leave they will have to take to comply with your (unreasonable) demands.
Something the government and the career bureaucrats don't seem to be able to take into account.

David, if you stay on this blog long enough, you'll know Amy's position on the TSA. It comes up about every week or so.

I'll give you the basics: The TSA is evil, because, you know, Fourth Amendment rights.

> it could have extrapolated
> oh so fast.

Nope, I don't get it... Do not understand why people are so horny to be afraid of Ebola... So eager to think there's something new or special about a threat that's been around, and essentially unchanged, since Captain & Tennile ruled (or tormented) the charts.

It's why I snapped at Jerry in the earlier thread--

> How contagious is it?
> How quickly can it spread?
> How quickly can it mutate?
> How deadly is it?

It's like everybody wanted to go to Halloween dressed as a Worried Epidemiologist.

The Extrapolating Kind, with a clipboard.

It's STRANGE. This is STRANGE BEHAVIOR from people who are trying to be normal.

There are so many things to worry about... Here, look at some graphs. Some of them have ten items, maybe some have twenty. But statistically, there may be ten or twenty thousand things that are more likely to kill you than Ebola.

Mundane food additives, auto-part failures, clumsy medication labeling, click-clack string toys... You guys have such a wonderful array of demons to terrify you... Things which will, I promise, kill or maim at least a handful of Americans this year, things much more threatening than a trained health care worker getting out of the house for a cheeseburger and some toiletries. You've chosen to be worried about Ebola.

If this scenario had been presented in February, I'd not have believed it. It would be like people started watching television like they did in 1976, and Carol Burnnett was everyone's favorite. Again.

Huh?

The reason Ebola scares the bejeezus out of folks is because: A) It causes death within days, not months or years like cancer or heart disease. B) Nobody on earth wants to go out hemorrhaging out both ends. It's a bad death. C) You go out alone in this life, quarantined, secluded from your loved ones. So when you're trying to explain why there is such a small likelihood of ever getting it, it doesn't really make anyone feel any better about it.

> So when you're trying to explain why
> there is such a small likelihood of
> ever getting it, it doesn't really
> make anyone feel any better about it.

I'll not be concerned with making others "feel better" about irrational appraisals of risk, nor will I suffer house arrest to quench their thirst for melodrama. Get a grip, ninnies.

'Sides, they say that if you get treatment from start-to-finish in the modern West, you have a 90% chance of surviving Ebola. Which is why the...

They're not listening, though, right? They wanna "feel better."

Harbor any irrational fear your heart desires. Look under the bed every night before you hop in. I don't care. But you don't get to quarantine people based on your irrational fears.

I'm a little surprised to find so much panic at this blog. I wasn't a bit surprised to see it in the mainstream media and in the general population. I thought this was a more discerning group.

It might be the oldest cliche on the books, but some of you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I thought this was a more discerning group

Yes it is. And able to spot a real threat (a disease that doesn't exist in our respective countries) from a made up one, a la security theatre. I wouldn't call that panic or irrational.

At least I'll be safe here in Kazakhstan. Crid, I've got a nice lady goat lined up for you when you want to emigrate.

"David, if you stay on this blog long enough, you'll know Amy's position on the TSA. It comes up about every week or so. I'll give you the basics: The TSA is evil, because, you know, Fourth Amendment rights."

And because he has been reluctant to say anything about his own position and objects to being asked about it, here is Patrick's opinion on the subject: screw the 4th Amendment, because government knows best. A court said so.

Of course, treating people the way they DO is NOT the sole reason the TSA is grossly ridiculous. That part is easy to look up.

"How come you expect innocent people to capitulate to your irrational fears and quarantine themselves, but you object to capitulating to their groundless fears and submit to a search before you fly?"

How come you applaud Ebola Nurse for defying the authorities to assert her freedom to associate with anyone she chooses, yet insist that she shut up and just take demonstrably useless patdowns for wanting to fly on an airplane?

Crid, I've got a nice lady goat lined up for you when you want to emigrate.

I can't help this, because, puns. I have to warn you, she has a couple of kids!

Ltw: Yes it is. And able to spot a real threat (a disease that doesn't exist in our respective countries) from a made up one, a la security theatre. I wouldn't call that panic or irrational.

Oh, 9/11 didn't exist? I'll be sure to tell people you believe that. Get used to sleeping with guards around your home. I know a few million who might object to your characterization, and some might with to drive the point home in person.

If you're going to liken the whole TSA thing to Ebola, then the "disease" is terrorist attacks; TSA is the attempt at a remedy. How effective is it? Impossible to say with any accuracy. It is true that they've never caught a terrorist, but it is unknown and unknowable how many terrorist attacks have been deterred by their very existence.

And in fairness to those who object to the TSA, there have been one or two who've slipped by despite the TSA. The shoe-bomber and the underwear bomber come to mind.

Lizzie: I thought this was a more discerning group.

Some of us are. Isab, Crid, lujlp, me. (Which, from my perspective, is the most unlikely alliance I could imagine.) Please don't lump us together with the Chicken Littles.

If you're going to liken the whole TSA thing to Ebola, then the "disease" is terrorist attacks; TSA is the attempt at a remedy.

I'm pretty certain I said they were different things and didn't liken them in any way. Actually, I'm really certain.

Meanwhile, the weather is nice here in Madagascar.

Oh, 9/11 didn't exist?

Of course it did. I never said otherwise. You do the putting words in someone else's mouth almost as well as Crid! Well done.

I didn't mean to lump everyone together. I realize several of you are not overreacting. I'm just surprised at the number of commenters here, on this blog of all places, who believe in quarantining people for such a paltry risk. It's senseless, but I guess irrational fears usually are.

Simply saying something is a real risk is not, and should not be, enough to take as drastic an action as enforced lockdown. That panders to hysteria. Exactly how much risk is involved needs to be a prime consideration. When I pointed that out in the other thread I was told "I'm not playing statistics games". Since when did pertinent facts become a game?

Ltw: I'm pretty certain I said they were different things and didn't liken them in any way. Actually, I'm really certain.

Oh, are you? Gee, I'm not.

You wrote: And able to spot a real threat (a disease that doesn't exist in our respective countries) from a made up one, a la security theatre. I wouldn't call that panic or irrational.

You likened Ebola to a "real threat," and likened the "security theatre" to "a made up one [threat]."

I was pointing out, you dear, pathetic child, that you called the "security theatre" a made-up threat. I was correcting you in that the security theatre is not the threat, made-up or otherwise. It is the attempted remedy to the threat, which is terrorist attacks.

And I assure you, terrorism is not a made-up threat. Please do not tell me, or anyone else, that 9/11 was made-up.

"So eager to think there's something new or special about a threat that's been around, and essentially unchanged, since Captain & Tennile ruled."

Crid, it has in fact changed, and I've posted the evidence that it has done so. Your ignoring it does not make it go away. And I know you'll post some paragraphs-long mocking of me in response, but you know what? Ad homineum attacks are what people do when the facts don't support their position. So what facts do you have?

And in fairness to those who object to the TSA, there have been one or two who've slipped by despite the TSA. The shoe-bomber and the underwear bomber come to mind.

Shoe bomber: Boarded in Paris (FRANCE).
Underwear bomber: Boarded in Amsterdam (THE NETHERLANDS).
How does the TSA get one bit of credit for either of these being subdued whilst on a plane full of passengers who hadn't been 'screened' by Fatherland security?

You can put money on the number of terrorist caught or 'deterred' by the fry guys of the TSA at ZERO.

DrCos: How does the TSA get one bit of credit for either of these being subdued whilst on a plane full of passengers who hadn't been 'screened' by Fatherland security?

DrCos, please read my post again. I did not extend credit to the TSA for stopping these people. I pointed out that they had gotten past the TSA. It is not to the TSA's credit, but their discredit.

Cousin Dave: Crid, it has in fact changed, and I've posted the evidence that it has done so.

No, you didn't. You posted significantly increased numbers in Ebola infections, and you pointed out (correctly) that something did change. However, you did not post proof positive that the virus itself evolved. There are any number of factors that could contribute to the virus gaining ground that have nothing to do with the virus mutating.

The differences might be cultural. For instance, their practice of laying hands on the dead bodies, a custom that Americans don't observe. The fact that they subsist on bush meat (we don't), or the fact that they eat bats (which no one in this country does, except Ozzy Osbourne) are also factors that contribute to the spread of Ebola. How about their sanitary practices? We wash more than they do.

> it has in fact changed, and I've
> posted the evidence

Where? I see no such evidence.

More to the point, I NO evidence that this popular busybody-eagerness to quarantine gracious medical professionals is the result of any dynamics in Ebola's epidemiology.

Be perfectly clear about this: PEOPLE ARE NOT RESPONDING TO A CHANGE IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF EBOLA.




Rather, Amy's twitching eagerness to ruthlessly fuck with a profoundly decent woman living on the other side of the country is the manifestation of a political change.

It's the same 'empowerment' insanity that allowed voters to savage my investment opportunities while fattening the retirements of incompetent school teachers; to assume real estate investments must never lose value; to pretend auto manufacturers are immune to market forces; and to affirm that distant strangers can be taxed to pay for the health care of third parties.

THAT's the threat that's mutated into being since 1976. It motherfucking deadly, and it's spreading... But Ebola ain't the problem.

God DAMN, people.

> I've got a nice lady goat

While I wouldn't doubt it, it's notable that this is the discourse you want to bring to the United States of America. You want to tease people in other countries with goat jokes.

That's where your head's at.

@Patrick: I'm aware of Amy's ever-so-mild opinion of the TSA. My quip was intended as a somewhat ribald double-entendre. I'm still not sure why she can't assume more than one position during a check-point fluffing....

Also, fuck the WHO. Fuck them with a stick.

Margaret Chan is a commie cunt, and she's going to get people killed... And on her deathbed, she'll be proud of herself.

New rule: No scholarships for medicos… They wanna gota grad school, they gotta earn the money first.

Patrick: I pointed out that they had gotten past the TSA.
No, they didn't get 'past' the TSA, unless the TSA has expanded to Paris and Amsterdam. They were on planes inbound to the USA, not outbound.

We still agree the TSA is a bunch of useless....

I was mistaken about Margaret Chan.

She's already been implicated in a huge number of unnecessary deaths:

Her performance during the SARS outbreak, which ultimately led to 299 deaths, attracted harsh criticism from the Legislative Council of Hong Kong and many SARS victims and their relatives.[9] She was criticised by the Legislative Council for her passiveness,[12] for believing in misleading information shared by the mainland authority, and did not act swiftly.

But in the style of government everywhere, ESPECIALLY the "World," the authority of her career has continued to accelerate.

Please do not tell me, or anyone else, that 9/11 was made-up.

I did not say that Patrick. Ever. And don't you dare accuse me of it.

But confiscating bottles of water for being over a certain size, feeling people up, and generally turning people into sheep is not the solution, and never will be. It's useless and does nothing more than make people feel safer. Exactly the wrong reaction to 9/11, which was exacerbated by the conventional wisdom that the best thing to do was to cooperate with terrorists and let the authorities handle it (except for the one flight where the passengers bravely took matters into their own hands). Robert Reid was stopped by the passengers around him. Not by security theatre.

Also, fuck the WHO. Fuck them with a stick.

Margaret Chan is a commie cunt, and she's going to get people killed... And on her deathbed, she'll be proud of herself.

I've got a long way to go to get down to your level of discourse, Crid. You fucking useless piece of shit.

Foreigners, right?

Just thought I'd get into the spirit... using the standards you set.

This is the childish "incandescent rage" thing. There are already people who do that in Amy's blog comments, similarly without persuasive impact... Panties bunched so tightly you can't even say what you're offended about, and all the grownups are just supposed to know, so you're going to go back down into the basement and pout. But first you're going to call people names, because that's like being articulate and principled, only not as difficult.

Casual readers here will appreciate (and recognize for themselves) the technocratic lunacy of the WHO and other international organizations, chartered & populated by corrupt functionaries from Godforsaken Hellholes around the globe, who reprehensibly mock the only true revolutionary force in human history, the only one that ever improved life for anyone: Capitalism.

We don't know where you're from, LTW-girlfriend, but we don't much care: If your chattery moralizing isn't backed up by a few bourses of ennobling, seriousballs wealth creation, you're not for real.

That's fun.

I like doing that.

I like being an American, the smart kind.

To be so good-looking as well, even in deep middle age, is almost indescribably fulfilling.

You're lecturing me about capitalism, and the stupidity and corruption of international organisations. Really. Can you actually read?

We don't know where you're from

"Who's this we, white man?" (Tonto, The Lone Ranger)

Who are all these other people you're speaking for?

We don't know where you're from, LTW-girlfriend, but we don't much care

Oh but you do. You care so much you bring it up at every opportunity. You'd love to ban me but you can't. Welcome to the real world, dickhead.

True! You're protected by American decency and by your insignificance.

That happens with people from around the world interacting with the United States in many contexts. We absorb the whining that your own cultures (or families) won't tolerate.

And, you won't answer the question. Why am I not surprised?

I defend the US in world affairs all the time. because it's a big deal and you (plural) have done a lot for the world. There's a big difference between that and defending you (personally) though. You're still a cunt.

I've seen a lot of people like you. Just abuse people till they go away. Do you like being the big fish?

> I defend the US in world affairs
> all the time.

Don't bother.

Defend yourself.

"We" is people who agree with me, too numerous to count; "The Lone Ranger" is an American broadcasting project: Your pathetic eagerness to feed our culture back to us as if it were your own is precisely the problem.

Ltw: I did not say that Patrick. Ever. And don't you dare accuse me of it.

I dare do exactly that. You plainly stated that the threat TSA was created to combat was made-up. TSA was created in response to 9/11.

Admit it. You fucked up. Royally.