Ferguson: What Everybody Keeps Forgetting
What we're missing is any kind of clear rendering of what the facts were.
Jacob Sullum also points this out at reason:
If Darren Wilson had been indicted, he probably would have been acquitted, since crucial questions about his deadly encounter with Michael Brown--questions on which the police officer's self-defense claim hinges--remain unresolved. The physical evidence is ambiguous, and eyewitnesses contradict each other on important details such as who initiated the violence, whether Wilson fired at Brown as he fled, and whether Brown was trying to surrender or trying to attack Wilson. That does not necessarily mean the grand jury was right to reject criminal charges against Wilson, since the standard for an indictment, probable cause, is much lower than the standard for conviction, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But if a state homicide charge would have been difficult to prove, convicting Wilson in federal court would be nearly impossible.
Via AP, the complete set of grand jury documents released by Missouri authorities.
There were protests in a number of cities. Here in LA, the 10 Freeway (from LA Brea) was backed up for miles after Ferguson protesters walked onto onto it. More of that in Beverly Hills -- in the middle of the street.
In Ferguson, from The Atlantic:
November 24, 12:30 a.m.Several Business Burned in Ferguson
While the large scale demonstrations began to wind down in Ferguson, flames continued to fill the sky as a number of local business continued to burn. According to various reports, Sam's Meat Market, Little Caesar's, Public Storage, and O'Reilly Auto Parts, were among the businesses that were set on fire during the evening's protests. Because of the sheer number of fires, firefighters were unable to even attempt to put some of them out, so the buildings burned on their own for several hours.
In addition to the fires, several business were looting, including a local Walgreens. At least two police cars were destroyed and set on fire, as well.
RELATED: Blog post from lawyer @ScottGreenfield on the grand jury trial charade.
Twitter is for quips, but this is pretty much what's described here as well.
But…
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 24, 2014 10:56 PM
…But of course WaPo makes mistakes, too.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 24, 2014 10:57 PM
Watching twitter & listening to Saint Louis scanners tonight. A seemingly disproportions number of looting & fire targets seem to have been beauty-parlors and -supply businesses.
This might mean something.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 24, 2014 11:08 PM
Everytime I see people loot it reminds me what nasty little savage chimps humans are.
Of course the majority of looters are young black men and it makes me fucking cringe.
Ppen at November 24, 2014 11:42 PM
Sullum is flatly wrong.
As was noted in the official statement, the ONLY persons to see all of the evidence are the jurors. In fact, the only persons to see ANY of the evidence was the jurors.
Nasty little primates that we are, we imagine that we have seen something important on television, and that our opinion about that is important, too.
Nope. So we stoke our ego with a burning American flag.
You have not, I have not, the Ferguson rioters have not seen anything which is evidence, but we are too important to observe the law.
Radwaste at November 25, 2014 1:48 AM
> In fact, the only persons to see ANY
> of the evidence was the jurors.
Um... It don't work that way. Thoughtful people reject, or supplant, the decisions of juries all the time.
Saying you weren't there doesn't kick the ball forward in any meaningful way. Western Civ would dissolve instantly if there could be no review or accountability for jurors whatsoever.
"Mile in his/her/their shoes" is —like charges of 'hypocrisy'— too beloved by teenagers, who want simplistic, mechanized widgets for moral authority.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 25, 2014 3:58 AM
The problem is, there are a bunch of separate issues here:
1. Overly militarized, trigger-happy police.
2. Inner-city black culture, which discourages kids from getting an education and a job, encourages criminality, and - above all - denies that any black can ever be responsible for their own stupid life choices.
3. The Mike Brown shooting. Is it an example of #1 or #2, or maybe both? The grand jury decided that it is #2.
4. Lastly, barbarians who take any excuse to loot and burn. A bunch of young black guys looting a liquor store, gee, that's a great way to show their support for Mike Brown. Maybe it's a memorial, since it's the same store that Mike Brown robbed just before he was shot.
a_random_guy at November 25, 2014 4:19 AM
Crid: bullshit.
You are not about to tell me that you want the mob to determine your guilt in anything.
Oh, I get it. You're important. Your opinion matters. How about going downtown in Ferguson and throwing a chair through a window? It's only a matter of degree.
The bigger the ego, the louder the protest that the law is not what they want.
Radwaste at November 25, 2014 6:22 AM
Part of the problem in Ferguson is the city/county government's decision to balance its books on the backs of its poorest citizens.
Frequent citations for minor violations that carry heavy fines have left citizens hostile toward any evidence of civil authority.
When you use citations as a revenue source and the police as revenue collectors, you erode respect for the law and for the police. You create a tension between the police and the citizenry the police are supposed to be protecting.
And when challenging the fine (or even paying it) becomes difficult because the court system is overwhelmed, the police become little more than instruments of oppression in the minds of the people being cited and fined.
Excerpt from Reason's "America's 3 Most Fee-Ridden Cities" [emphasis mine]
http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/11/24/americas-3-most-fee-ridden-cities
Conan the Grammarian at November 25, 2014 7:56 AM
I went and read @ScottGreenfield. Oy, also vey.
It seems he somehow knows about more material that should have been presented to the grand jury. He doesn't say how he knows, or what it is, but evidently without it the GJ proceedings were an empty charade.
Why link this propagandist, Amy? It's not as if they're hard to find.
phunctor at November 25, 2014 10:51 AM
> Oh, I get it. You're important.
See, now, that's the second time you've said the "important" part, and I can't imagine what you're getting at. We... We can't imagine what you're getting at. This is that thing where you got all hopped up and teen-pissy and forget to make good sense.
Why would I want to throw anything through a window?What's "a matter of degree"? There are mobs, and there are juries, and both make mistakes. What's your point?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 25, 2014 10:54 AM
☑
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 25, 2014 11:03 AM
C'mon, Raddy, if you're going be so snarky and self-assured, you have to tell us what you're worried about.
What case are you you making?
That people should never think a jury got something wrong?
That even when they do, we have to understand that evidentiary proceedings are sometimes faulty, but have to be honored as the best we can do? Who, exactly, is being too 'important'? The rioters? Their critics? The juror? The cops? Blog commenters?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 25, 2014 11:53 PM
C'mon, Raddy, if you're going be so snarky and self-assured, you have to tell us what you're worried about.
What case are you you making?
That people should never think a jury got something wrong?
That even when they do, we have to understand that evidentiary proceedings are sometimes faulty, but have to be honored as the best we can do? Who, exactly, is being too 'important'? The rioters? Their critics? The juror? The cops? Blog commenters?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at November 25, 2014 11:54 PM
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