They look like what we used to call "Licker cycles", and we assumed the person riding one was doing so because they had their license taken away.

-- Steve

How old is he/are they?

After a certain age, after the mid-life crisis is a memory, it no longer matters as much, apparently.

I love, love, love the iconically manly thing. But gas mileage and parking practicality become much more important. They want to be valued for who they are, and are tired of the work involved in signaling.

Gregory Peck didn't seem to have a problem riding one in Roman Holiday.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046250/

I think it depends upon where you live and ride.

Riding a scooter in San Francisco is sensible and a great way to get around (weirdly, I only ever see parked scooters in SF, never ones actually being ridden).

Riding a scooter in suburbia makes you look like someone who couldn't get a real car or motorcycle.

One of the coolest guys I know rides a scooter. He jokes about it and he'll text the woman he's meeting for a date, "I'm scooting over right now. Meet you there in 10!"

The scooter is part of his image at this point, as is the cute little tea house he runs. Juxtaposed with the fact that he's a big dude with a giant beard who plays drums in a metal band, this image is attractive to many women.

So maybe LW's husband doesn't have the confidence/big personality to balance out the Vespa?

mmm, there are many MANY facets to this...
depending how configured, vespa's are much more motorcycle than scooter, as they can have larger engines, and much more get up and go [80mph on a gts300] but also 70mpg... also, roughly $8k, rather than the $12k for a Harley.

So questions about masculinity are the real problem... but this is whose issue?

has she bothered to ask why a vespa and not a harley to see the thought process?
I know guys with harleys that don't ride very often, while I know a guy with a "scooter" [300cc] that rides to work pretty much every day...

What's our age bracket here? Where is it, can you ride a lot? Is it a stepping stone? Has she ridden on it with him? Is he a new rider? I also have several friends that rode when they were single, and the moto was the first thing to go when they got married... now that they are empty nesters, they went back to moto, but tale of two wives there. One bitches constantly, and refuses to ride, the other is starting to take road trips, and enjoying the hell out of it.

I fear the one wont be ridden very often because his wife is punishing him for getting it.

This may be a compromise for various reasons... maybe he thought it would be cheap, quiet and less threatening for the wife. Maybe they don't have the room for a harley, maybe the insurance is less...

Boya may have a plan, on how to get the Mrs. to accept 2 wheels as a stairstep to getting something bigger. Or maybe this is just a crazily efficient way of transport where they are, while being fun and useful.

Do they only have one car? Do both work?

Ultimately Vespas are fun and when configured correctly, powerful enough to keep you out of trouble, in a way the small scooters aren't. Depending on the situation it may be a fantastic call.

Again the question with who is having a problem with his masculinity. As you can imagine, Italian men certainly have NO PROBLEM with them. Bigger and louder not being better.

She should think of him as a European sophisticate

Yep, it's a matter of style. Can he carry off Euro cool? Or, like my husband, the I-don't-give-a-damn-what-anyone-thinks? (Which is why I teased him about his Italian satchel, calling it a man-purse--I knew he didn't care.)

Or is the problem that his wife has a different vision of masculinity than her husband does?

I've known 2 who had them, one was a kid of 15/16, the other had lost his license and needed something.
The kid once he could afford it switched to a real car, the one who lost his license actually kept it. He said it was too convenient for city travel, claimed it cut his commute time and parking was actually possible.

Frankly, I'd save my pennies and get an electric Harley.

If I thought that riding anything with two wheels interspersed with other vehicles with 4 or more wheels was in any way a good idea, that is...

Vespas are for high-school and college men who can't afford a real motorcycle. Or, Europeans.

A Vespa can brutalize a spinal column no less savagely than can a 1,000cc Honda, guaranteeing her just as many years of odiferous bedpan duty on his behalf.

If she's losing her boner over things like this, why are they married?

Real-time. Isn't it a little late to be fussing over "sexy images"? Do they have kids yet?

Vespas and the like have some unique handling characteristics, due to the small wheels and unusual arrangement of unsprung weight. I don't care for them at all.

But speaking of wives and motorcycles - ever since I was a teenager, I always told myself "one day, I will have a big Desmo Ducati." For extty-thing years now, I've been telling myself this - one day . . . .

And finally, mrs llamas says to me "I've been hearing this as long as I've known you - one day is never going to come if we leave it up to you. How about Saturday"?

And indeed, Saturday it was. She would have laughed herself silly if I'd have lusted after a big Harley, so that I could join all of the other Hell's Podiatrists, rumbling down the road on a sunny afternoon in their designer leathers. But she could see the attraction of the big Desmo Ducati. Not one person in 100 knows what it is anyway, so it's not like it's some big self-advertising deal for me. Bless her heart.

llater,

llamas

Yes, you can talk yourself into how a Vespa is Euro-cool, but the reality is, motorcycles are sexy in a way a Vespa will never be.

Is he riding it for fun? To and from the store? Possibly thinking of it as a starter bike(move to a real motorcycle later)? Lots of questions there.

Personally I wouldn't get a Vespa; I like something that'll carry me down the highway like my VFR, but if he likes it and enjoys it? He's good.

'Course, there's the possibility she's pissed because she had a picture of her on the backseat as they head down the road.

Yeah, like others have pointed out, why did he get the vehicle in the first place? Maybe he just needed a small scooter to do light commuting. Maybe he wanted to start out with a small, inexpensive, easy to handle bike (are Vespas cheap and easy?) with the idea of moving up to something a little fancier later on if he was ready. Too many questions.

Ah, yes, leave it to Crid to make that kind of charming comment :-/

While the Harley image is a bit played out (lawyers and dentists who ride in full leather fetish regalia), the scooter is more appropriate for the young and skinny-jeaned or Romans.

For commuting he could have chosen a dual-sport. They're available in small displacements and look rugged in any class.

Incidentally, I'd like to paraphrase Jack Handy by saying "It takes a big man to ride a scooter, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

Yes, you can talk yourself into how a Vespa is Euro-cool, but the reality is, motorcycles are sexy in a way a Vespa will never be. ~ Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 5, 2014 10:20 AM

Ever seen those '70s commercials and ads for the lower-powered Honda and Yamaha motorcycles. Nothing sexy about them. They were practically selling the motorcycles as scooters.

Slightly OT: Anyone remember mopeds. Now that was the real antithesis of sexy.

My thoughts? She's petty and ridiculous and she should do him a favor and dump him.

Conan: Slightly OT: Anyone remember mopeds. Now that was the real antithesis of sexy.

There was a terrible joke circulating while I was in college. You know why a moped is like a fat chick? They're a lot of fun, until your friends find out you ride one.

Do they drive a Prius?

If so, the manliness factor is already gone, and a Vespa will not reduce it any further....

My guess is she wanted him in a black leather jacket. That Vespa vibe doesn't give her the tingles.

I would ride the hell out of a vespa, just like I ride my Geo Metro. My wife teases me about my "Wind-up car" (and driving like somebody's grandmother) but I tell her, I'm not driving it to pick up chicks I'm driving it to get from A to B without spending a hundred bucks a week in gas.

My guess is she's embarrassed that his riding a scooter will reflect poorly on her.

==============================

Patrick, the same joke made the rounds when I was in college.

Despite the stigma, riding a moped seemed a better deal than schlepping my ass all the way across campus every Monday and Wednesday at 7am for one freaking! class.

==============================

Motorcycle vs. Scooter

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/14/8945/Motorcycle-Article/Motorcycle-vs--Scooter-Comparison.aspx

==============================

It's the imagery of Hell's Angels, "Easy Rider," and "The Wild Bunch" -- versus what's basically the "My Little Pony" of ground transportation. ~ Amy

On the other hand, Google "scooter racing" and some interesting stuff comes up.

Then again, guys will pretty much race anything.

Yeah, all these posts and no mention of the film "Quadrophenia," which features a major battle between the Vespa-riding Mods and the motorcycle-leaning Rockers. Neither side actually wins.

I cannot imagine, in a million years, this making the slightest difference to me in how sexy I found a guy I already cared about.

For that matter, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference even if I didn't care about him. Hot Italian dude on a vespa is hot. He'd also be hot on a motorcycle -- no more and no less. Fat scruffy guy on either = not sexy. Granted, he'd look sillier on the vespa, but I think that's because I associate them with Euro-chic guys.

Nobody has less respect for the pretentious conformist silly-ass Harley crowd than I do, but a Vespa?

A Vespa is WAY below acceptable for a man. Honda and Suzuki have whole ranges of scooters that aren't Vespas.

I'm a girl who drives a pretend car that looks like a little shoe (the Honda Insight from 2004) and I'm pining for a Smart car. So it's not like I'm against small, energy-saving vehicles. But let's be honest here -- it's sexy to be on the back of a guy's motorcycle in a way it isn't to be on the back of his Vespa.

Eh, whatever youre into, personally when I think of Harley riders I picture recover alcoholic overweight proletarian old men with big grey mustaches and beer guts... Bears if you will, which if I met the right one Im sure I could have fallen in love, but is frankly noy my sex fantasy

I picture vespa riders as young, skinny artsy types, hipster if you will... Not my fantasy either but sexier than the former

Of course in real life both vehicles are ridden by all sorts

I dont mean to imply bears are all elderly alcoholics just that when i imagine the typical harley ride it is what i picture

I LOVE Lotus Elise's. Alot of my female friends think they're funny looking cars and they laugh at them.

If a guy I like wants to ride a Vespa i wouldn't care.

But perhaps I'm full of shit cuz I have a client that turns me on anytime i see him in his expensive Audi. The Audi makes him really attractive.

Seems more like a dating problem than a marriage problem. Pretty pathetic, really, if they're married and she's dismayed by the image of him riding a scooter. Who knows, there might be more to it, so what do I know.

Life is so much more interesting and varied, thank God, than what stereotypes suggest, though. I've seen burly dudes who ride Harleys who aren't interested in chicks -- and I've seen book nerd Vespa dorks who have delicious pixie bettys hanging all over them. Viva la difference, I say.

Where it really gets absurd is when dudes and chicks think that wearing a helmet is un-sexy or un-cool. I love riding mountain bikes, and some gals think that it's dorky to wear a helmet. Now that's pathetic.

We have a local scooter society that sounds like a lot of fun, really.

"Purchase A Scooter"

"Destroy your safe and miserable life before it's too late!"

Hah!

"Do they drive a Prius?

If so, the manliness factor is already gone, and a Vespa will not reduce it any further...."

Thanks. If only all the mouthbreathing dumbass bitches self-identified so clearly!

I got rid of my sport bike before I became a dad. I now drive a 5-series BMW, since it's both a beast on the roads and safe when I have the kids. But I'd sure as shit throw in a Prius as a backup to access the carpool lanes solo if the money made sense. But I wouldn't need to spend a second with a moron like this Isab chick.

I doubt I'd ride a Vespa or any similar scooter (mostly because I'm a bit too large for them), but I *do* have one thing going for me.

I never inherited the 'Gives a shit what other people think' gene.

If I felt the urge, I'd wear a pink speedo, with a lavender feather boa around my neck, and ride a scooter through the center of the most conservative city I could get to.

And I'm straight.

And my girlfriend would be watching, and laughing her ass off at all of the horrified onlookers.

I'm truly and fully comfortable in my manhood. I don't need to pay obiesance to someone elses idea of how I should present myself.

I got rid of my sport bike before I became a dad. I now drive a 5-series BMW, since it's both a beast on the roads and safe when I have the kids. But I'd sure as shit throw in a Prius as a backup to access the carpool lanes solo if the money made sense. But I wouldn't need to spend a second with a moron like this Isab chick.

Posted by: ItssoEasy at November 5, 2014 10:35 PM

I see we have another victim of Interent Aspberger's Sydrome here, who cant recognize an obvious joke.

I'm absolutely devestated that you don't find me as entertaining as I find myself. (Actually I am old enough not to care)

Obviously I struck a nerve.

I drive a 2003 Nissan March, but I prefer anything with a five speed stick.

I don't need to pay obiesance to someone elses idea of how I should present myself.

This is about caring whether one's girlfriend finds one's choices sexy. Doesn't anyone think that matters?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 6, 2014 4:51 AM

What if it was a pink shirt, or Argyle socks?

Is there anything too trivial about the way a man presents himself, or choices that he makes that cannot be simply ignored by a woman who ostensibly loves him?

Why does she care about the Vespa? And what does that say about her character or lack thereof? Is she embarrassed, and if so, why?

Like Patrick, I see it as a big red flag in the relationship.
She comes off as both controlling and shallow.

I think we're all picking on Amy a bit. Of course, I want my wife/girlfriend/SO to find me sexy. Suppose she finds beards gross, and is honest and open enough to tell me so. If I then decide to grow a beard anyway, sure it's my decision, but I shouldn't be surprised by the consequences.

We all have odd twists in our personal psychology. Things that matter to one person are irrelevant to another, and often we cannot be entirely rational about our preferences. She has to decide how important this is to her; if it's important enough, she tell him, and he decides how important his Vespa is to him...

"personally when I think of Harley riders I picture recover alcoholic overweight proletarian old men with big grey mustaches and beer guts..."

Me, too, NicoleK. Which is why I don't swoon at the mere idea of them. The association isn't really sexy to me. It's all about the guy riding them.

Doesnt help that my 60 year old uncle just got one... he is a skinny clean shaven dentist though.

The point is IMO a Harley is less James Dean as he was and more as his character would be f alive today.

Not too big, one hopes.

Personally, I'm more interested in an Indian than a Harley. Harley's have manly sound, but I'm not into the aging Hell's Angels / bad 90's television Renegade chic. I'm looking for an old Indian-4 to rebuild.

"and we assumed the person riding one was doing so because they had their license taken away."

What? You don't need a license to ride a motor scooter? I thought the Vespas HP easily exceeded that of mopeds. I think the cutoff was 132 HP in California.

Wow. I had no idea the 5-series BMW, one of the most civilized cars ever to receive saliva from admiring Consumer Reports scribes, was "beastly".

Meanwhile: if you have a bike, or you know someone who has a bike, get thee/they to California Superbike School, STAR school or the like, because you have no idea.

Really.

Not one professional motorcyclist I have spoken to, in the last 40 years, has ever claimed to know how to ride. Those schools will show you not only that, but just what a gem your bike can really be when you understand it better.

I think it's kind of stupid and it wouldn't bother me, but at the same time I have my own ideas about manliness that are probably stupid to others so I can't really fault her for being turned off. If it's a turn off it just is. Maybe if he took her for a ride on it she might change her mind. Some of them can go pretty fast.

Of course I care about what my girlfriend thinks and finds sexy.

But she's not so shallow that a choice of transportation (or other similar external item) would actually bother her enough to be a problem.

I *already* am pretty weird as a person, I doubt she'd even blink if I drove to the house on a pink vespa (apart from worrying that I might break the tiny thing).

There are *real* things to worry about in a relationship. If something like that truly matters to a woman, then yes, the guy should at least take that into account, but I'd be more worried that something like that mattered so much.

Also.

Fully agree with Raddy on the STAR (or similar) training.

I rode for years before gettng that training, and it took me quite a while to unlearn my bad habits.

My thoughts: This woman is being silly. I've seen a whole lotta unsexy Harley riders.

"I LOVE Lotus Elise's."

Now that's a hot car. Rare too, at least in my part of the country. Although it does remind me of Jack Brabham's bit where he said Colin Chapman used coathangers for suspension parts.

(On the other hand, I remember the old joke about Porsches too: "A Porsche will pass anything, except a garage." Hey, I've had mine for a year, and so far I've only had to do one repair!)

I think feminism is to blame, for constantly promoting demasculinization ... some of their bad ideas probably seeped into his subconscious.