Maths are very sexist when they say things you don't want them to say.

Statistics: the art of torturing numbers until the say what you want.

Two obvious points:

1. The 1-in-5 figure probably includes every case where an Elliot Rodgers-level creep touched a girl on the arm.

2. The number of actual sexual assaults is greater than the number reported. How much greater is a matter of conjecture, and conjectures are like opinions, which are like. . .

Using the # of rapes reported is horseshit and wildly understates the problem. 3 of my college girlfriends were victims of sexual assault. Only 1 reported it. College boys are rapey as hell.

The 1-in-5 figure probably includes every case where an Elliot Rodgers-level creep touched a girl on the arm.

I've often wondered that. I was walking down the hallway in high school and some strange guy slapped my ass as I walked by. I always wondered if that made me one of the 1 in 5. I read one study and it had a higher bar: persistent unwanted contact or forcible touching.

While the 1 in 5 number is mythical, using reported assaults as a measure of the scale of the problem surely misses a large number of cases. A huge fraction of the women and men involved in these incidents are drunk, which complicates the issue of consent and creates a barrier to reporting.

College boys are rapey as hell.

So...you would advise young women to avoid college, or perhaps stick with on-line courses?

I favor draconian policies that give more credence to accusations than defenses and hopefully make those boys think twice

I favor draconian policies that give more credence to accusations than defenses and hopefully make those boys think twice

Posted by: Me at December 26, 2014 11:35 AM

If the defense is "I wasn't there,and I can prove it". Or "she texted me for months after the supposed rape" I hope you are willing to give it some credence.

If not I hear there are a number of countries out there with judicial systems modeled on the Spanish Inquisition, where you might feel more at home.

I say, bring back single sex housing, curfews, and mandatory expulsion for drinking on campus, or sex in on campus housing.
Then hand over jurisdiction for anything happening off campus to the local police, just like REAL adults do.

3 of my college girlfriends were victims of sexual assault.

How many of them thought so BEFORE a feminist told them it was rape?

@Isab

I'm not saying no credence. Just more for victims than for rapists.

@lujlp all. Thanks for playing

@Me:

The defendants are NOT rapists, and will not BE rapists unless convicted by a jury of their peers in a court of law, under due process.

The fact that you split the sides between "victims" and "rapists", rather than "accusers" and "accused" suggests that you already have a conclusion in mind before looking at ANY evidence. . .

Me,

Just a quick question.

If a professor were to accuse a student of plagiarism and/or cheating on a test, should we presume the student guilty unless they can provide positive proof that they didn't commit those violations?

What if they didn't actually cheat on an exam... but they also cannot prove that they didn't?

Should we just toss them out of university on the basis of an accusation?

What is at stake here is the very concept of being innocent until proven guilty.

Now taking this back to the subject of sexual assault... if someone is being accused of rape, that is a matter for the police to handle and investigate.

Treating rape like an academic offense trivializes the very nature of this violent crime and should be an insult to anyone who actually desires justice.

Please think carefully before criticizing my use of academic violations as an inappropriate analogy for rape on college campus... I'm not the one pushing for violent crimes to be handled by the same people who adjudicate accusations of cheating on an exam.

I actually believe that rape is a serious offense... far too serious in fact to be handled so flippantly outside of the criminal justice system.

"@Isab

I'm not saying no credence. Just more for victims than for rapists."

Why?

I am for even handed and impartial treatment of both accusers, and the accused.

I reserve the term *victim* for people whose credibility has been established by going to the police immediately after a crime has been committed against them, so the appropriate evidence can be gathered to support their claim.

If you look further into the article, he accounts for reporting rate and gets a likelihood of 5%. This is about what I estimate based on NCVS stats; http://michaelsiegel.net/?p=6466

@Isab I reserve the term victim for those who have been assaulted sexually, regardless of what they did before or after. But hey, your definition is convenient if you want to believe rapists don't get away with it all the time. Hope you're a dude.

Problem is me, rapists get away with it BECUASE their victims rarely name them and press charges.

Which in my mind makes them accomplices to the future rapes of their rapists

Problem is me, rapists get away with it BECUASE their victims rarely name them and press charges.

What evidence is there for this assertion? Or does it depend on your definition of rape?

- Morning after regrets, gah, didn't want to wake up with this person? I sure hope that is underreported (though reporting this is exactly what is now being encouraged). Reporting rate ought to be zero.

- Violent rape? Underreported by a factor of five? Not believable, not buying that.

In between, there is a huge spectrum. The degree of underreporting depends entirely on where you draw the line.

@Isab I reserve the term victim for those who have been assaulted sexually, regardless of what they did before or after. But hey, your definition is convenient if you want to believe rapists don't get away with it all the time. Hope you're a dude.

Posted by: Me at December 27, 2014 10:38 PM

Nope, you have gone four for four on the totalitarian useful idiot test. I'm not a dude, just an attorney.

Rape isn't the only crime people get away with all the time. This is the way the justice system operates. We let a lot of the guilty get away with it, to ensure as few of the innocent are punished as possible.
It is a big part of our constitutional form of government.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you go to school to receive the kind of socialist sexual *born yesterday * brainwashing you appear to have swallowed hook line and sinker?

"If you don't mind me asking, where do you go to school to receive the kind of socialist sexual *born yesterday * brainwashing you appear to have swallowed hook line and sinker?"

I've been close to enough people who have been rape victims, who never saw justice; their rapists got away with it scott free. It's clear the laws of that time were inadequate and it's time to tilt the scales in favor of victims.

"Justice doesn't involve "tilting" scales -- quite the contrary."

Justice in the US involves different standards: in some cases, beyond a reasonable doubt; in others the preponderance of the evidence. The testimony of police officers is given weight beyond that of civilians. The testimony of the well-spoken is given greater weight than the mealy-mouthed. Criminal prosecutions of the most rapists stall for lack of evidence and he-said, she-said BS. Too many of these criminals live lives untouched by what they've done to others; it's time they know fear, too.

Me Says:

"Justice in the US involves different standards: in some cases, beyond a reasonable doubt; in others the preponderance of the evidence."

Yes... it involves different standards.

Criminal cases where it is possible for someone to be locked away in prison and deprived of their personal liberty have a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Traffic court cases involving something like a parking ticket might only have a "preponderance of the evidence" standard.

The problem with your perspective is that you want rape to be treated as a serious criminal offense with the evidentiary standard used for adjudicating parking tickets.

The question people such as yourself need to come up with a coherent answer to is the following:

Is rape a serious criminal violation or not?

If it is a serious criminal violation (which I believe it is) then it needs to be handled by the criminal justice system and apply a strict standard for guilt along with the presumption of innocence... that way we are justified to lock someone away if they are found to be guilty.

If it is not a serious criminal violation then you should start advocating for thinks like rape tickets that come with $100 fines... then you can have the preponderance of the evidence standard that you seem to crave so desperately.

My point is that you cannot expect to be taken seriously when you try to get rape handled with the same evidentiary standard used for individuals accused of failing to put adequate change into a parking meter.