I can recall a time when Airlines DID provide relatively spacious seating, free meals, 3 checked bags for no fees, etc.

But that was before Coach got turned into Cattle Class by a race to the bottom on fares.

That's also why, in general, I don't fly if it's less than a day's drive. . .

On his last flight back from Tokyo, my son was given an exit row seat. He is young, and tall, and they had the seats available.

Sadly, on a full plane, you can only get what you are willing to pay for.

The upgrade into business class on his last flight to a Tokyo was an additional 250 one way.

I am 6'5. I only fly for business, and businesses never, ever pay for exit row or business class anymore. At least not for proles like me.

So flying is, basically, a nightmare.

I know how capitalism works, and I know why fares are so relatively cheap these days. Trust me, I do.

I'm just not sure that wee folk under 6'2 really get how wretched flying has become. Especially when someone slams that seat back to full recline, jamming your knees back into your pelvis, which has absolutely no place to go.

I'm looking at having to fly to Europe pretty soon here. And thinking about holding a rummage sale to pay for the upgrade.

I am vertically challenged. My husband is not. He pays for the extra leg space.

Part of life is making do with what you've got. I need to buy step stools for all the rooms in the house (to clean windows, get things off shelves, etc). Should somebody buy them for me as a courtesy?

Or maybe somebody should buy me hardwood floors because I have a dust mite allergy?

It really sounds so foolish if you extend the idea.

MBegr;

I totally agree - those "wee folks" just don't get it. I am not fat (205 lbs), nor am I that tall (6'1"); but even I am very frustrated that there are some seats that I just cannot physically fit into.

When I pay for a seat, I expect a seat that I can fit into. Not a seat where my knees are sore after the flight because they have been jammed into the back of the seat in front of me. Not a seat where I have to "share" the armrest with the person next to me. Not a seat where I cannot lean back because I know that will take space away from the person behind me. Not a seat where the person in front of me leans back and hits me in the face.

I blame both the airlines and the travelling public for the nonsense that passes for travel today. Airlines for doing it; and the travelling public for wanting the "cheapest" fare.

However, anyone want to bet that lower fuel prices will NOT be seen in better flying conditions?

However, anyone want to bet that lower fuel prices will NOT be seen in better flying conditions?

Posted by: charles at December 28, 2014 11:38 AM

The feds have tacked on enough taxes and fees to fund the TSA and other nonsense, that it more than makes up for any reduced fuel prices.

In real dollars I am paying less for plane tickets than I did in 1982.

Rationing by price, is a great deal better than any alternative.

Fly Southwest as often as possible. You can pick your seat, and there are a lot of good ones.

Just wait, it can get much worse. Airbus has filed a patent for folding saddle seats. The link shows a picture of what it would be like.

http://www.dezeen.com/2014/07/16/airbus-files-patent-folding-airplane-seats/

My sister just graduated a nursing program, it was a 13.5 hr drive from PHX to SLC.

Flight might have been 6-8 hrs figuring driving, parking, bus ride to the airport terminal, check in, out, ect ect.

But I didnt have to deal with the TSA and had my own car when I got there, and the gas and hotels were cheaper than the ticket price so I doubled my travel time and more than halved my travel budget.

More than worth it

A few years ago I had to fly across country with my 6'7" son. It was an emergency, so we didn't have the funds to upgrade. Turns out though, if you actually ask and don't expect mind-reading, some airlines will do what they can. My son got bulkhead seating both ways.

On the way there, the agent apologized profusely that I wouldn't be able to sit next to him. I was just happy he wouldn't have to fold in half. Made me wonder how often people complain even when they've been helped.

Economy size is what it is and I don't think it is reasonable since - at least in my experience - I have only very rarely had the chance to get more room for a reasonable price and significant percent of the population can't easily fit into the space.

On my last trip the airfare was $1200. I tried to upgrade to economy plus and it was only available on 1 leg (I believe both ways) that was 4 hours (each way) so about 1/3 of my flying time. (total about 24 hours, econ+ about 8 hours). I had to upgrade my ticket class - not to business - just letter to another which all it got me was the chance to then buy econ+ and/or priority boarding and changed the bumping calculation. All for just $500 - then econ+ was another $200 or if I waited til I checked in it would be a bit less if still available.

When I was going to Tokyo a few years ago my economy airfare was about $1100 and business was $8800 (almost exactly 8 times the cost which is why I remember it).

I am willing to pay a bit more. If it had only been $200 more and for most all of the flight time I would have done it. I might have for the one leg...but an additional $700...no way. I have paid $500 at the counter upgrade to business for just the leg from San Fran to Tokyo.

Don't worry, in the future we will travel by this:

http://www.hondagrom.net/forums/attachments/4618d1381345633-daily-wtf-south-park-bicycle-300x225.gif

Ppen, I was told it would be a monorail?

Now, in my experience, econo seating is sort of ok. Granted, I'm a wee fellow at just 5'10". But I'm broad in the shoulders, broad in the hips, and I have "a ghetto booty". For the most part, those seats are adequate.

Unless I'm seated next to the 400 lb leviathan. Hate bulk head seats, and exit row. Avoid the middle seat like the plague.

Pro tip for y'all: exit row seating does not recline. So select a seat one row back if you don't want someone reclining into your space.

Economy size is what it is and I don't think it is reasonable since - at least in my experience - I have only very rarely had the chance to get more room for a reasonable price and significant percent of the population can't easily fit into the space.

That's been my experience, too. If I enough in advance, I've got a good chance of getting a "plus" seat (and I often pay the upcharge for them, since it's worth it to me). But when I book only a couple weeks out, those seats are often gone. And since those are often work flights, it's not like I can just say, "Eh, maybe I'll just do the 12-hour drive instead." I'm lucky in that I fit into the torture device that the average economy seat has become. But even I find those uncomfortable, especially because I often find myself seated next to people who can't fit.

I used a bunch of my miles to do first class for all my Xmas travel this past week. First class domestic isn't even that great anymore, but not being sore the next day and being able to actually sleep on the plane were luxuries I'd almost forgotten existed.

I hate how cramped planes have become in recent years. I'm not a large person (5'6" and 130-ish), but have a leg room issue as well. I don't mind paying an extra fee for more room if I think I'll need it on a longer flight to avoid being uncomfortable. I don't think it should be given for free. I also don't think fat people should get to take up extra space for free either. Based on a not too distant experience of mine I feel like big fatties should be kept off all flights, but that's just my anger talking. I was booked on a cross country flight with an aisle seat (three seats to a row). The middle seat was assigned to an extremely wide fat man that wreaked of filthy ass and BO (minor point to my story). He did not fit in his own seat with the arm rests down so neither I nor my row-mate could fit into our seats. He was oozing into half of each of our seats. We both complained to him that he was taking up our seats and making us unable to use the seats we had purchased. His response was basically tough shit because he paid for a seat too and we'd just have to deal with it. Our point that he was actually making use of three seats was totally lost on him and he started yelling that we were harassing him for being fat. I told him I paid for a seat too, but I would be lucky to be able to use half of it because of him and therefore should be entitled to a steep discount of which I can't get. Much yelling and arguing amongst us ensued. The flight crew became involved and after we pointed out that fatty was using our seats to accommodate his blubber so that we no longer fit they told him he needed purchase additional seats to accommodate his size, of which he started screaming about discrimination. Since the flight was solidly booked there were no additional seats for him to purchase, which meant that I and that other person would have to be bumped or he would be. When all was said and done, he was bumped from the flight and told they'd arrange another flight for him but that he would have to purchase an additional seat. This resulted in the usual threats of lawsuits and tirades about poor treatment of the disabled. If you are going to take up more space than allotted that was intended for other passengers it's going to cost you.

I just don't see that the consumer has all that much market power over the relatively few airlines. Don't like American's cargo seating size? It's the same over at Alaska.

Since the consumer has so little power, since aviation is already regulated a zillion different ways (safety, ...) and requires massive amount of taxpayer dollars (Air Traffic Control, airports, ...) then I say fuck it.

I'm short, but I have no problem with a regulation making each airline demonstrate they have adequate seating fitting their typical, seasonal demographics.

Not all rows need to be fit tall folks, and not all rows need to fit wide people, but in a world where you already rely on my taxpayer dollars to get your ship off the ground, navigate it safely, and land it, you can damn well show you can seat the people who come to you.

Otherwise, it truly will be a race to the bottom, ala Ryan Air's standing room only seats, and Airbus's saddle seats, and Spirit Airlines restroom fees.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2014/07/future-short-haul-airlines

Market shmarket, we don't need an airline system that allows chickens, goats, and luggage placed on the roof or in the cabin.

As a relatively small person who fits neatly into an economy class seat, I appreciate the option of paying only for the space I need and saving my money for my vacation instead. I don't particularly care to pay extra for other people to have extra space -- and that is what would happen if some seats in economy were larger than others to accommodate larger passengers, and all were priced the same.

When I need to work on the plane, or for some reason want more room, I pay for it. Otherwise, I rejoice in rock bottom fares.

Jerry nails it right on the head. All the airlines are so identical the consumer cannot really indicate anything about service. There is as much variance within a career. On one of my trips to Japan I specifically opted for one particular itinerary that was a little less convenient and slight more money because it was a 777 which according to seat guru had a bit more room. Then come time to board they are using an old 747 that flight with less room and I no longer have an isle seat.

Here is another question. On almost all my flights the econ+ has all been booked up or quite a price premium months in advance -- so it would appear like market demand is quite high -- I would think there would be alot more econ+ becoming available but it does not seem to be.

They should scan each passenger's ass from the knees up and charge by the square inch, same price for everyone. Minimum would be the size of your ass, but you could buy as much more space as you want. Fair and square.