Maybe something good could come from Ted Nugent (the Motor City Moron)...
Tell PETA if they stop telling me not to eat meat, they can keep on eating crayons.

Oh, and PETA kills too, but here we hide behind the word euthanizing (it's not killing?).

Oh, and Amy, I think 'nutbag' is a little tame to describe someone who wants to stick a pipe down someone's throat (or elsewhere).

Don't give them money.

They're jihadists.

Just a different jihad. And now you know why they tend to not say bad things about those other jihadists.

I wonder if they're promised 72 virgins?

Whatever your thoughts on animal rights, relationships, or any other issue... "It happens in nature" is a dumb argument. All sorts of shit goes down in nature...lions eat their rivals cubs, some spiders eat their mums, dolphins gang rape.... Doesn't mean we should emulate it

To Nicolek: Exactly.

I was telling someone how cats shouldn't allowed to run freely outdoors because of how many songbirds they kill every year and she said "that's just natural." I pointed out that it's also natural for little kids to torture helpless animals, or worse, but we don't let THEM do that, for more than one obvious reason. Thankfully, she didn't argue.

Now, I am all for free speech - especially speech that I do not like.

Even PETA has their right to speak freely and show the world what idiots they are.

But, whoever is sending text messages to someone personally that are threatening is involved in criminal activity and should be arrested for it.

You want to call meat eaters "murderers"? Go ahead; just do not target them individually. Especially via their phones, emails, etc.

Folks who do that are just like the Muslim fanatics - they just "worship" a different false god.

Whatever your thoughts on animal rights, relationships, or any other issue... "It happens in nature" is a dumb argument.

Not really. Othrewise I could use this argument as to why you should take up a diet of beach sand, motor oil, and anti freeze

Also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkR2XEYEFgk

lenona , I don't think it's natural at all for little kids to torture animals. That, to me, is an odd argument. Humans teach their children that it is NOT okay to hurt animals. When small and clueless they may hurt animals ( a toddler pulling a cat's tail, or a dog's ear) but I don't think it's normal to inflict pain for the sake of inflicting it.

I see a lot of posts on the net saying that cats shouldn't be let outsider, they kill too much etc. Do you have a cat? Have you watched a cat up close? They are simple creatures, programmed to respond to and chase anything that flies, be it a house fly or a sparrow. You can see the reaction, the look in their eyes changes. Like a dog's prey drive, it's automatic. Unless you can change then feline genome to eliminate this instinct, cats will be driven to kill bugs and birds. Applying human standards of ethics (thou shalt not kill, killing is wrong) to animal behavior is exercise in futility because they're not interested in becoming better cats :-) Cats aren't evil killers, they're just cats.

NicoleK, I don't think Amy was making the "it happens in nature" argument. She was saying that unlike the treatment of animals on farms, nature is much worse. So if animal activists want to start somewhere, perhaps fix the bears first then worry about human consumption of meat.

Hard core vegans oppose any use of animal products as abuse - this includes milk and honey as well as the more obvious leather, fur, and meat. They seriously justify mothers breast feeding their kids as ok only because it is done with consent. An animal can't consent, so building a beehive, looking after the swarm's welfare, and in return taking some excess honey is wrong and evil. That's utterly ridiculous.

On cats - I live in an inner city area. They may take the occasional bird (even then, odds on that it's prolific species classified as vermin anyway), but they catch mostly rats and mice. And do a damn good job of keeping the house clear of pests.

Unless you can change the feline genome to eliminate this instinct, cats will be driven to kill bugs and birds.

And to chase laser pointers! They can't help themselves.

I don't agree with you totally crella, but yes, the hunting instinct is very deeply ingrained in cats. Given that they're up there with sharks as being almost the perfect predators, that's not surprising. They do hunt for fun though, even when well fed. I agree evil isn't the right word. But they are cruel.

The downside of your argument is that, just like humans teach their kids not to torture animals, it leads to people saying you should apply the same reasoning to domesticated pets. Which, because you can't train the hunting instinct out of a cat, means keeping them inside. I prefer to say that I know they hunt and I'm comfortable with it. That has a lot to do with where I live and the nature of the wildlife in the area of course. Here, they're serving a useful purpose.

Thanks Amy!

lenona , I don't think it's natural at all for little kids to torture animals. That, to me, is an odd argument. Humans teach their children that it is NOT okay to hurt animals. When small and clueless they may hurt animals ( a toddler pulling a cat's tail, or a dog's ear) but I don't think it's normal to inflict pain for the sake of inflicting it.
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OK, maybe "normal" or "natural" aren't quite the right words to use.

How about "common"?

That's bad enough, it seems to me.

Any number of classic novels - such as "Black Beauty" include child characters who are over five - or ten years old - who inflict cruelty on animals out of boredom and/or a thirst for power. Or something worse. I've also seen kids that age throwing stones at frogs. Maybe it was just to make them jump, which is still mean, but they clearly didn't care whether they might actually hit them.

Check out Bratfree for plenty of worse horror stories. If they aren't credible to you, go inquire at your local police department. You may well be sorry you did.

My cats go outdoors. Every so often I find one eating a rat-which is awesome. Go them. I've no need for rats.

I think keeping animals indoors is cruel-would you want to spend your entire life shut inside your house? No? Think how much worse it is for an animal meant, by nature, to roam widely each day.

I don't let me dogs run free, seeing as they're less intelligent than cats and would get themselves run over or terrorize random neighbors, but we waited until we had a nice big yard to let them out in, to get dogs. And we take them places they can run offleash frequently.

"catios": the helicopter parenting of the pet world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NNuG-6-hQ