Drunk Sex On Campus: When Men And Women Are Both Drunk, Only The Man Gets Punished
An example from an Amanda Hess piece on Slate:
Last year, BuzzFeed's Katie J.M. Baker spoke with a male student who was found responsible for sexual misconduct at an Ivy League school after--according to multiple witness accounts--he drunkenly made out with a female student, who was also drunk. When the female student woke up the next day with no recollection of what had happened the night before, she contacted school officials and local police and submitted to a forensic examination to determine if she had been raped; the rape kit showed no signs of assault, but the male student was suspended for a year. The student didn't blame the woman for initiating an investigation against him--"That doesn't strike me as an easy accusation to make," he told Baker--but he does fault the school for finding him responsible. "They couldn't prove that I wasn't just as drunk," he said. "So why was the burden of consent immediately assigned to me instead of her?" And after a male student at the College of Holy Cross was accused of sexual misconduct for having sex with an incapacitated woman in 2011, he sued the school, contending that she was merely intoxicated and that the school had overstated her level of drunkenness due to her gender.Sokolow argues that the onus being put on men is not about gender bias, but about anatomy. His report says that "courts operate on the presumption that if a man is able to engage in and complete the act of sexual intercourse, he is not incapacitated." Or as Dunn put it: "People who are truly incapacitated can't get erections." That's an assumption that dates back to Shakespeare, but it's not backed up by modern science. "It's true that orgasm is impaired in both sexes" when people drink, says Dr. George Koob, director of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. "With even tiny levels of alcohol," sexual response "slows down, and delays, and sometimes goes completely." But Koob also cautioned that there's no absolute line past which all men are incapable of having an erection and that a total loss of sexual function is less likely for young men, the ones who are implicated in most campus sexual assault disputes.
...There's another reason that men are generally held to a higher standard during drunken sexual encounters, and it concerns the mind, not the body. In cases that involve drunk sex, even the people involved in the case are not basing their complaints on how they felt at the time--they are basing it on how they felt after. According to a report produced by investigators hired by the school, Jane ultimately decided to take the incident to Occidental when she began experiencing "emotional difficulties" in the evening's wake. She "had difficulty concentrating, and would often 'zone out' for five or ten minutes at a time." She experienced "nightmares, and intrusive thoughts." The prospect of running into John frightened her, and when she actually saw him, she became nauseous for hours. Meanwhile, John seemed fine. According to the report, Jane "noted that he attended his classes without difficulty, and she 'saw that he wasn't fazed by what had happened at all.' "
Because Jane blacked out on the night of Sept. 7, 2013, she doesn't remember how she felt as the events unfolded--just how she felt before and after. "The thing is I have no clue what I was thinking," Jane later told investigators.
I'm thinking a good many men's lives are being ruined on dubious "evidence."
Here's where Hess goes especially wrong -- following the lead of the Obama Administration, with their sick reinterpretation of Title IX, in a way that removes men's due process. Hess writes:
Colleges need to find a way to mold policies that can be applied consistently to men and women, help students cope with traumatic experiences as they embark on adulthood, punish the sexual offenders in their midst, and acknowledge that not all drunk sex is assault.
As I've written before, sexual assault determination does not belong with colleges, college administrators, or a kangaroo court of students worried about their poli-sci final. It belongs with the criminal justice system. Period.
I'm going to get thrashed on this but after hearing about this topic for months I'm going to state that the groups having these parties should be targeted by the police.
I rode a motorcycle for many years and survived incidents that others did not. Not because I was good but I was lucky and moving slower and gave PHYSICS a chance.
This is no different. The physics of the situations these guys are in are constant (drinking too much and sexual conduct w/a drunk 'girl'). The results are the same (you get 'screwed' twice).
Like riding too fast around blind curves (what's in the road on the other side will affect you and you can not see it), these kids know they are acting recklessly. Why should I care if they don't.
Bob in Texas at February 12, 2015 6:11 AM
18-year-old citizens should have full civil rights
Tmitsss at February 12, 2015 6:38 AM
most people do not realize it but 90% of all the erections a man will have in his life are entirely INVOLUNTARY and over 75% will happen while he is unconscious, so how and why can an erection be considered "Consent"?
warhawke223 at February 12, 2015 7:51 AM
The 22 year old son of a friend was convicted of Rape 3 after he and a girl engaged in sex during a party. They were both drunk. She stayed the night. 7 months later she pressed charges of rape against him. He spent 3 months in jail awaiting trial. The original charge was Rape 2 then lowered to Rape 3. His court appointed attorney convinced him to take a plea deal. The judge gave him time served plus 10 days. He has to register as a sex offender for the next 10 years and now has a felony on his record. Had this gone to trial there were people who were at the party willing to testify that the girl had pursued him earlier in the evening and she didn't seem distressed the next morning. Unfortunately his attorney pressured him into taking the plea deal and would not allow him to discuss other options with his family.
Monica47 at February 12, 2015 8:26 AM
"People who are truly incapacitated can't get erections."
Um, no. I can get a boner but not be legally capable of driving a car. And as I understand the statutes of the State of Florida, I am also unable to give informed consent when it comes to sex.
I R A Darth Aggie at February 12, 2015 8:44 AM
Unfortunately his attorney pressured him into taking the plea deal and would not allow him to discuss other options with his family.
File a complaint with the state bar association. Any lawyer who would tell me that will be fired on the spot.
I R A Darth Aggie at February 12, 2015 8:46 AM
"Unfortunately his attorney pressured him into taking the plea deal and would not allow him to discuss other options with his family."
You hear this all the time when someone takes a plea and then regrets it: my lawyer made me do it! If a lawyer and a client cannot agree, to the point where the attorney-client relationship is damaged beyond repair, the client can demand that the court appoint a different lawyer. Or the family can do whatever is necessary to hire their own lawyer.
But if an adult client is completely opposed to what the lawyer advises and then caves, that's on him -- and even more so if he has the support of his family.
That said, attorneys who see these cases day after day may have a much better sense of how the evidence will look to a jury than the client does, and may also be more aware of exactly what Amy and the articles she posts about say: that there is a presumption in our society that the man is always at fault.
Without knowing more about the community in which this happened, the facts of the case, and the reputations of both parties (because if he's a player, that will matter, whether it should or not), we can't say that this young man wasn't better off with the deal he got, especially if he was facing time in state prison and registration.
JD at February 12, 2015 9:47 AM
If it comes to micro-managing the sexual behavior of 18-22 year olds in a bizarre eugenics breeding program - as America seems to be doing by ever-more save-the-womens legislation - why don't we just admit defeat on the coeducational residential college experience?
Weren't these same people who now agitate for more regulation the same people (mostly women) who moaned and complained and agitated for tearing down all-male schools? And all-male or all-female dorms?
They make their own problems to always have something to complain about.
MrGreenMan at February 12, 2015 11:21 AM
When I was growing up we were constantly told how girls mature faster then boys, girls are more responsible then boys. But the second the law gets involved, suddenly it is all reversed and the male is the mature party who shoulders responsibility for anything a girl does with him. WTF is up with that?
Matt at February 12, 2015 11:35 AM
"...sick reinterpretation of Title IX, in a way that removes men's due process"
and treats adult women the same way that society treats children and the retarded.
Hmmmm. Perhaps its for the best?
Jay R at February 12, 2015 11:43 AM
The old saying used to be:
A woman can change her mind (about having sex) before sex, she can even change her mind during sex, she can't change her mind after sex.
Well, the way it works now, she can change her mind after by simply claiming rape.
Sure, there were some in the past who used to cry rape simply because they had regrets afterwards; but, they had to prove it.
And, sure, there were actual cases where the guy knew she didn't want to but was too drunk to say no.
But, the way it is now seems to be whatever she says is true and he can be damned.
I agree with you, Amy, these cases belong in the court of law. Even if the law doesn't treat him fairly, it is still better than a kangaroo court. I suspect that if the Duke Lacrosse players hadn't gone through a court of law, and instead were "tried" by a college court the truth never would have been known.
charles at February 12, 2015 12:29 PM
Step 1: make women accountable for their own behavior.
No need for step 2.
Jeff Guinn at February 12, 2015 5:28 PM
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