"Moderate Muslims" And Why Islam Remains Medieval
Peter Schwartz writes at HuffPo on Islamic totalitarianism:
In the Medieval era, when the authority of the Church was virtually unquestioned, those who questioned it were put to death. The Church recognized no freedom of thought--it recognized no concept of freedom as such. Freedom is a state of personal autonomy, in which the decisions about which ideas to accept and which actions to take are made by each individual, without outside coercion....Because freedom essentially means freedom of the mind, people lose their freedom whenever religion holds political power. Religion demands the surrender of the intellect. It orders you to subordinate reason to faith, and to yield to an authority higher than your independent mind. It orders you to act not on what you understand, but on what others tell you to believe. Instead of the freedom to think, there is only the duty to obey and to serve God. And a servant who defies his master's commands must be compelled to submit. So medieval heretics were burned at the stake for the glory of God--an act akin to the machine-gunning of infidels to the chants of "Allahu akbar."
Only with the flowering of the Renaissance and then the Enlightenment did the Church's authority wane.
...But the Islamic world did not go through an Enlightenment. That world still clings to its dogmas the way it did many centuries ago. This is the central fact distinguishing Muslims from Christians. The Koran is taken more seriously and more literally by its followers than is the Bible by its followers.
...What about the so-called moderate Muslims? They exist, but let's first define that term. It cannot refer merely to those who refrain from beheading infidels. In today's context, there is a simple way to distinguish a moderate Muslim: he is someone who acknowledges the categorical right to repudiate Islam. And as a logical corollary, he regards Osama bin Laden and his ilk as monsters who deserve to be executed. The crucial point is that he disavows the essence of jihadism: the idea that Islam is to be imposed by force.
But in the Muslim world such disavowers are the exception. Look at the governments of Muslim nations. In Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan, Algeria, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, blasphemers are put to death. (Other Muslim countries impose prison sentences.)
Finally, he asks the essential question:
We see numerous protests in the name of Islam against critics of Islam--where are the protests in the name of Islam against the savage killers of the critics?
And the answer is what we hear, for the most part:
Largely crickets.
How come my historical, geographical and developmental considerations of fundamentalist Islam in recent years were met with your weirdly personal derision, while this guy earns your agreement?
> Finally, he asks the essential question:
What's essential about it?
> where are the protests in the
> name of Islam against
How long has it been since you've "protested" anything at all?
Who in the world could demand such a thing of you, or of any other free woman?
They say Radio Shack is going down this week.
This will not stand!
All of you!… To the town square to protest! I command it!
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 4, 2015 12:34 AM
> where are the protests in the
> name of Islam against
He's asking for protests by "moderate Muslims" against the savagery (demanded by the Quran, by the way).
Again, there are none.
I have been speaking out about Islam since I started reading extensively in it since 9/11. Your posts about Islam are not based on any readings of the texts of Islam -- they are merely expressions of annoyance that I would dare speak about the dangers from Islam, as it is supposed to be practiced, per the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic scholars. You like to pooh-pooh these dangers.
Please feel free to dig up the editor of Charlie Hebdo and pooh-pooh them to him.
And you know, because Islam commands the death of anyone who ridicules or demeans the "prophet" (realistically, the raping, child-fucking, looting psychopath) Mohammed, about every post I make here about Islam is a protest.
Especially the one of my dog dressed as Mohammed for "Draw Mohammed" day.
Amy Alkon at February 4, 2015 6:00 AM
So...how come no #NotInOurName hashtag protesting?
Sorry, but there's two kinds of moderate muslims: one who approves of jihad, and the other that doesn't. The one that doesn't will be branded an apostate and will be put to death.
That will move many of the other apostates back into the camp of approving jihad.
I'm not going to say they're going to directly involve themselves in jihad. But they may put forth money to Islamic charities who support...wait for it...Jihadi Achmed.
I R A Darth Aggie at February 4, 2015 6:05 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2015/02/moderate-muslim-2.html#comment-5828781">comment from Amy AlkonHelpful Quran refs for Crid (go to the original site for links to the exact passages):
http://infidelsarecool.com/2006/12/overwhelming-evidence-of-i/
Amy Alkon
at February 4, 2015 6:09 AM
Who cares what the Koran says?
It is a religious text, subject to interpretation, and radical Islam's followers are largely illiterate.
Like every other group throughout history; This is about money, power and cultural pride. And a return to the *glory days* of the Persian empire.
These people have idealized a glorious past, that never really existed.
Not the first group to do so, and won't be the last.
Isab at February 4, 2015 6:34 AM
The Quran is anything but "subject to interpretation"
It is to be taken literally as the word of Allah.
The death punishments for those who question Mohammed and the Quran put a bit of a chill on free speech, don'tcha think?
Amy Alkon at February 4, 2015 6:44 AM
PS Read the whole piece at the link.
Also, I care what the Quran says, because it commands my slaughter and yours, infidel.
Amy Alkon at February 4, 2015 6:46 AM
Abbas went to the Je Suis Charlie world leaders thingy
NicoleK at February 4, 2015 8:19 AM
Europe's development was not just traditional religion vs. the Enlightenment. The Industrial Revolution also had a role to play.
The Industrial Revolution tore apart the remaining vestiges of clan loyalties in Western society. And it wasn't pretty.
During the Industrial Revolution, Western (and Westernized) societies destroyed traditional clan and family loyalties when people migrated to the big city to take jobs in factories.
Societies in which people formerly stayed close to family and clan and depended upon them for their livelihood, now found themselves with large populations of clanless workers living in crowded urban populations. These workers were from different clans, different religions, and different traditions.
They had to find a new way to identify and think of themselves - to find common ground.
The US experienced a similar catharsis with its own Industrial Revolution and Civil War.
Most Third World countries are still heavily dependent upon clan (tribal) ties. Folks there look upon Western society and wonder how someone can selfishly sever ties to their clan and leave their home in search of money; how someone can voluntarily live with no ties to land, clan, or family.
The Middle East needs not just an Enlightenment, it needs an Industrial Revolution.
And it won't be pretty.
Conan the Grammarian at February 4, 2015 8:53 AM
> He's asking for protests by "moderate
> Muslims"
Why the fuck should "moderates" care what he wants them to do? Don't you think of yourself as "moderate"?
You didn't answer my question: From whom would you answer commands to "protest"?
As always, you refuse to take the point, ANY point, on this topic, and just pretend to know everything you need to know.
Like a religious believer.
(Going through the old files, I've learned that you won't read anything longer than two sentences.)
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 4, 2015 8:56 AM
From whom would you answer commands to "protest"?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 4, 2015 8:56 AM
From whom would you answer commands to "protest"?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 4, 2015 8:57 AM
> they are merely expressions of annoyance
> that I would dare speak about the dangers
> from Islam, as it is supposed to be practiced
That's just a bullshit puffery, and you're too be resented for it. You're far, far too eager to be proud of yourself as a daring truth-teller. That's not how courage works.
(Besides, your failure to contract "they are" is a tell.)
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 4, 2015 9:03 AM
@Conan
I'm glad at least two other people on this board read enough history to know that it isn't about a book, and it isn't about a religion.
Like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". The Koran doesn't cause hate and bigotry, it springs from it with a militant interpertation.
And it is a strong tool for organizing and focusing fifteen hundred years of discontent.
This is all about bankrupt medieval tribal cultures that can't succeed in the modern world,
And an attempt to remake the world so that they, and their values are the ones in charge.
The Russians, and the Jordanians know how to deal with this. The current US administration sadly, does not.
Isab at February 4, 2015 10:37 AM
The Chinese aren't so bad at squashing it either.
Jess at February 4, 2015 12:11 PM
All this makes me glad my ancestors were kicked out of the area.
Ppen at February 4, 2015 2:57 PM
Also, I care what the Quran says, because it commands my slaughter and yours, infidel.
What, they forbid redheads now? The fiends! The fiends!
kenmce at February 4, 2015 4:51 PM
You didn't answer my question . . .
As always, you refuse to take the point, ANY point, on [any] topic, and just pretend to know everything you need to know.
I swear to god crid, I almost died laughing see you sound so petulant writing these words.
OK maybe not died, but almost passed out from lack of oxegyn
lujlp at February 5, 2015 8:24 AM
I strongly recommend reading this book to help understand the difference in worldviews between the Islamic world and the West.
Destiny Disrupted
Like any history, the book has its omissions and flaws, but if you read it to gain an understanding of how the Middle East sees the West and itself, you'll profit from it.
Conan the Grammarian at February 5, 2015 9:50 AM
Bad Link
lujlp at February 5, 2015 10:25 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005EYEPB2/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=154NY0J46MP7GE5MJMSH&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970559082&pf_rd_i=desktop
Conan the Grammarian at February 5, 2015 11:13 AM
I've just started The Closing of the Muslim Mind by Robert R. Reilly.
In it, Reilly examines the hostility to Hellenic reason that was engendered in Islam in the 9th and 10th centuries and the conflict between two schools of thought in Sunni Islam that was eventually won by the anti-philosophers advocating a literal interpretation of the Qur'an.
Roger Scruton wrote the foreword.
It looks like it's going to be an interesting book.
Conan the Grammarian at February 5, 2015 11:17 AM
"There are two fundamental ways to close the mind. One is to deny reason’s capability of knowing anything. The other is to dismiss reality as unknowable. Reason cannot know, or there is nothing to be known. Either approach suffices in making reality irrelevant. In Sunni Islam, elements of both were employed in the Ash‘arite school. As a consequence, a fissure opened between man’s reason and reality – and, most importantly, between man’s reason and God. The fatal disconnect between the Creator and the mind of his creature is the source of Sunni Islam’s most profound woes. This bifurcation, located not in the Qur’an but in early Islamic theology, ultimately led to the closing of the Muslim mind." ~ Robert R. Reilly (The Closing of the Muslim Mind)
[emphasis mine]
Conan the Grammarian at February 5, 2015 11:35 AM
You guys are whistling in the dark...
...But you're terribly proud of your pitch!
Conan's cite will be ignored: Amy knows what she knows, and that's all she wants to know. For the rest of her life, she wants to be admired for saying the same thing over and over, without reflection or further discussion.
MOOZLIMS!
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at February 5, 2015 11:48 AM
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