I don't quite get why you didn't answer the initial knock. Don't let them in without a warrant, understandable, but answering the door to see what they want? Why not?

Yeah I'm missing something here... didnt you want to file an accident report?

You should have called the state police saying there were men outside impersonating local police.

Don't open the door to persons claiming to be police. Speak to them through the door. Or call 911 -they'll tell you if it's really the police, and why they're there.

Once the door is open a) they can look inside your home and later claim to see/hear/smell something that gives them probable cause to either enter without a warrant or go seek a warrant, and b) a streetwise copper will stick his foot in an open door - you won't be able to close the door and if you try, you'll likely be arrested for assaulting the officer. Is it legal? Likely not - no part of the officer's body should 'break the plane' of the doorway without a warrant. You'll beat the rap - but you won't beat the ride.

You do not have to speak to officers at any time, nor admit them to your home, nor exit your home to speak with them. Your neighbors should be counseled not to give the police any information about you (or anybody else!) nor to give them access to any part of your home.

And 100x more so when it's all about a trivial, civil matter like damage to a parked car. This could be resolved with an appointment at a convenient time. As said, banging on the door in the middle of the night demanding that you attend at their convenience is unjustifiable and nobody should stand for it. Especially when you have already offered the information you are required to provide by law. Turning every trivial matter into a confrontation is at the root of what's going wrong with policing in the US - as crime rates continue to fall, it is ever-more-tempting to think that police officers and agencies are working hard to justify their continued funding and manpower with less and less actual crime to deal with.

llater,

llamas

Miss Parker's an asshole. She calls the cops because she wanted to get insurance info? And your neighbors are jerks as well.

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV (but one of my neighbors is both).

One way to verify they are really police is to call 911 and ask if there is any police activity near your location. If the 911 operator says he is not aware of any, then ask that real police be dispatched to deal with the men demanding entrance to your home.

If 911 says there is police activity in the area then ask if the operator is in contact with them. If he cannot contact the police then ask for real police to be sent to deal with the men demanding entrance to your home.

If he is contact with the men demanding entrance to your home or the real police arrive, have them ask you a question or two that will only be meaningful in the present situation. For example if you are a woman named "Amy" living alone, ask the 911 operator to relay a request that the alleged cops outside ask to speak to "Alexander" or "Alfred".

After you have verified there is really police out there then deal with the reason why they are there.

Had they said what they wanted initially, I would have come out. Not outside, but to the inside side of my locked gate. Maybe the girl accused me of something; I had no idea. I did nothing other than write down her plate number and then photograph her license and insurance info but I had no idea what was said to the cops.

Again, this business of "Amy Alkon, come out" on the loudspeaker, rather than just saying why you want to see me in the first place, is police power play bullshit.

The cops count on your being embarrassed by their loudspeakering your name. Nope. I'm not embarrassed to stand up for my rights and to not give in to intimidation tactics. In fact, the next time the bar near me is violating the noise laws, I plan to call that cop who called me and tell him to go outside the owner's house on a loudspeaker.

Insurance information after a minor fender bender is not something the police need to be pounding on your door for.

You were right to be suspicious. Once you file a claim against her insurance for damage to your car, she as the insured party will get all the info about you that she needs.

per Isab: "Insurance information after a minor fender bender is not something the police need to be pounding on your door for.

You were right to be suspicious. Once you file a claim against her insurance for damage to your car, she as the insured party will get all the info about you that she needs. "

Believe you should file a complaint w/local Supervisor (Political) and Police Supervisor. Isab's comments raises major red flags. Could be a cop doing a favor outside protocol.

Regardless, both parties need to know this is SOP now for this cop.

Well, let's not be getting too carried away.

I don't know the law in CA but I bet it's the same everyplace - an officer responding to a report of an accident has the right to demand certain details from all of the involved vehicle owners/operators. This means driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance.

The officer didn't appear out of nowhere - he responded because Miss Parker called when she finally figured out that she'd had an accident that possibly caused property damage, and it's like, serious and stuff. Totally.

Once the officer responds, he's entitled to the information, and you're required to provide it. So he's not doing anyone any favors.

Nevertheless, for a minor, property-damage-only accident, where he already knows who the owner is and where they live, banging on the door in the dead of night and waking the neighbors to try and get access to the house is completely unjustified. A phone call at a decent hour is more like it. But the officer didn't want to have to do that, and decided to try and close the matter out then-and-there BAMN.

In hindsight, you should have called the police in the first instance. Again, I don't know the law in CA, but around here, if the property damage exceeds a $$ amount, you're required to file a report with the DMV regardless, and they will first want to know the police report details. If you'd called the police, the whole matter would have been sorted out in the street and not at your door.

If you have to deal with the police (and I don't recommend it :-)) the best way is to call them first, and the best place is as far removed from your property and possessions as possible. A very public place, preferably with lots of bystanders, is choice.

llater,

llamas

Sure, you don't have to - but you can. And obviously, she did. If the amount of damage is unclear, it is probably a prudent thing to do.

Even if everyone agrees at the time that there's no need to call the cops, nothing prevents one party from later changing their mind and deciding to do so. As happened here. If she'd claimed that it was, in fact, a moving accident (you were driving your car) and she thought you were slurring your words, and smelled of alcohol, he would have been his duty to detain or even arrest you on suspicion of DUI - by force, if necessary. See what I mean when I say that it might have been prudent for you to call the police in the first instance?

Calling the cops is like tripping and falling over a precipice - once it's done, it can't be undone, and the whole process will need to be endured, from start to finish. And you don't know where you're going to end up. That's why I don't recommend it :-).

llater,

llamas

I think there's a high bar for an officer to be able to enter a home if the resident doesn't voluntarily allow access. NEVER allow a police officer into your home, just to talk, just for any reason, even if you are not guilty of anything.

The fact that this girl didn't request my information was not my problem -- and shouldn't have been reason for the cops to come out in front of my house with a bullhorn. They know who I am, because I've been complaining of their lack of enforcement of noise laws for about a decade. The new captain and I have exchanged a series of email on this in the past few weeks. I'm findable without intimidation tactics during daylight hours. There was no reason to send out a car as they did.

On the bright side, the next time there's a violation of the noise laws by the bar near me, I have an officer's number -- an officer who likes to use his bullhorn. I think I'll call him up and ask him to go outside the owner's house (on a quiet walk street, away from the bar) and bullhorn him into coming out and dealing with them.

I hear you llamas but really dislike the insistent manner of intrusion and think poor judgement was used. Certainly not a productive use of time considering the involvement of phones and neighbors.

It's not like there was a fear for Amy's safety.

You got her licence and insurance info, so why didnt she get yours at that time?

"They know who I am, because I've been complaining of their lack of enforcement of noise laws for about a decade. The new captain and I have exchanged a series of email on this in the past few weeks."

The police were there to harass you, and this was just their excuse. They tend to harass people who complain about them or make their lives difficult in any way.

You got her licence and insurance info, so why didnt she get yours at that time?

She didn't ask. Not my problem!

And this was intimidating and meant to be embarrassing. And though I know it is not embarrassing to stand up for your rights and refuse to be intimidated, the honest truth is, it's very embarrassing and scary to have yourself announced to the neighborhood and treated as if you are some escaped felon, and not what I was: A woman who resents having careless assholes hit her car.

You should probably be prepared to film their return visit. No clue how legal that is there.

@Bob in Texas - I quite agree. As I think I said up-page, the actions of the officer were really quite unjustifiable in the circumstances.

I really should be more clear when I write. I should have said 'I don't recommend calling the police. But if they're going to be called, best that you be the one doing the calling. That way, they're responding to you (to some extent) and you also get some control over the when and where of their contact with you.'

But, once again - pounding on the door, yelling on the PA, involving the neighbors, and all after dark (by all accounts) - and all over license-and-registration for a non-injury accident? Not justifiable. But - like I said - the tendency to escalate to confrontation, together with a culture that teaches officers never to back down from their position or their demands, is what's driving a lot of the rot in US policing.

llater,

llamas

I just posted the emails from my cop friend -- along with the screen shots of the number the call came from last night.

I would have told the cops "I offered her this info when I took hers, she didnt take it, why does she need you to demand it of me when she could have sked for it herself, and when she will get it from her insurance company after mine files a claim?"

llmas's "... culture that teaches officers never to back down from their position or their demands, is what's driving a lot of the rot in US policing." is right on target.

Shame because I am hopeful that most policemen start off wanting to do 'good', but get trained by their jaded peers to dehumanize the 'enemy' (us).

Local politics is the only way this will change.

Their world is full of liars, bullies, drunks, and scum, and their support system is each other.

Put all the supervisors on notice that they will be fired if their officers can not divorce themselves from having a 'we are your betters'/'you are a f@#$%^&* a-hole' attitude.

The job is not for everyone that applies and may have a short self life.

I didn't offer it to her, luj, but the law doesn't say you have to. It says you need to give it "upon request." No request? Well, I'm sure not going to volunteer info to somebody who hit my parked car!

I didn't offer it to her, luj, but the law doesn't say you have to. It says you need to give it "upon request." No request? Well, I'm sure not going to volunteer info to somebody who hit my parked car!

Posted by: Amy Alkon at April 15, 2015 5:18 PM

I wouldn't either. All sorts of personal information on those official ID's. You don't know it isn't some identity theft or insurance scam.

Call back and tell this to the watch commander.

Danziger, the watch commander shifts nightly. I should have called last night but I was shell-shocked. Do you think I should still call back tonight?

Thanks, Marc -- on with the Sergeant the watch commander had me talk to now. The officers are there tonight, she said, and I'm now on hold while she's looking for them.

Check out what Mayor Garcetti said in his State of the City speech on Monday night about "relationship-based policing" and the importance of police working with the community, not against it. Put that in the watch commander's pipe and let him smoke it.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/04/14/51011/los-angeles-state-of-the-city-2015-eric-garcetti/#text

Sir Robert Peel established London's first full-time, professional police force in 1829 - a time when the city was far more lawless than anything we can conceive of today - and each new recruit was required to know and study the 9 principles for the new agency that he laid down.

1.To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

2.To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.

3.To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

4.To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

5.To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour, and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

6.To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

7.To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

8.To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.

9.To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.

Would not be a bad place to (re)start for US policing.

llater,

llamas

This is just such bizarre behavior by the police...
The lady who hit your car must be making some accusation against you. She's pissed off that you caught her doing something wrong and now she's lying about it to try to cover her ass... maybe she's related to a cop or someone with connections at the courthouse?

... and while I might offer to give my neighbor a message from police, I wouldn't give them any personal info about them.

ahw:"She's pissed off that you caught her doing something wrong and now she's lying about it to try to cover her ass"

I'll second that - those that lie the most/biggest are often doing so because they are trying to hide something.

I called the police a couple of weeks ago. As I was coming out of work for lunch a couple weeks ago, I noticed this huge dent in my Mustang's left rear quarter panel. Initially, I thought one of my co workers or an employee in the business next door hit my car and didn't want to say anything. After calling the city police, and having a report taken, I went home and called the Sheriff's department because I realized that it didn't happen at work, it actually happened at home. My car was parked on the street all week end. There were three white vehicles that could have possibly hit my car. Two across the street and a visitor that was at my neighbor's house the day before. I confronted my next door neighbor and asked if her visitor hit my car. She admitted that the other girl had been drunk, and thought she might have hit my car. She didn't come tell me or report the accident. She left the scene and did not have insurance. The Sheriff's department found her and issued a ticket of no insurance, leaving the scene of an accident, and carelessness. So yeah. I think she should have contacted the police. I had to use my uninsured driver coverage to fix the massive dent in my car. She still has not called or came to apologize after leaving her numerous voice mails.

Good news -- Mercury judged her responsible and is sending me a check!