Take-No-Responsibility Feminism
It is astonishing to me that so many young women are growing up so wildly and willfully naive -- and it's the naivete of entitlement...the thinking that you can do absolutely anything and nothing bad should happen to you.
And no, no one has a right to take advantage of you and have sex with you when you're blind-drunk or passed out, but the reality is, bad things can happen when you let yourself be totally out of control. The "logic" that allows women to go to frat parties and get so out of it that they don't remember what happened the next day -- well apply that to getting blind-drunk and walk home across the diag and just hoping you don't get mugged.
And then there's the notion that I see here and there that you can use a man for vacation housing or temporary housing -- sleep in his bed -- and expect him to him behave as if you are two nuns sharing sleeping quarters.
Who raises women to think this way? I somehow had a sense that I had to be personally responsible -- which is why I got really drunk at 15 when I went with my parents to my cousin's wedding. If something happened to me, my dad would be right there. (He laughed at me as I threw up at the side of the road.)
I've also done risky things with men -- but each time, I assessed that there could be consequences and accepted them. I didn't have a fairy dust and unicorn farts view of the world in which I had or have some sparkly forcefield surrounding me and protecting me from all the things that could possibly happen.
Christina Nehring writes at ELLE:
Take a not-untypical story that originated recently, tore its way through the Internet, and sparked international debates on Facebook and Twitter. It was written by a 20-year-old woman named Sophia Katz who made a trip to New York to network for her prospective writing career, after accepting a twentysomething editor's invitation to stay at his place. "Stan" had e-mailed her that she was "welcome to sleep in my bed--ha ha."Sophia accepted his invitation, appeared in the editor's Brooklyn pad soon afterward, and spent many days accompanying him to readings and nights sleeping next to him in his bed. On the second night, "we were sitting on his bed and he began kissing me.... I had no interest in making out with him or having sex with him but had a feeling that it would 'turn into an ordeal' if I rejected him.... I knew I had nowhere else to stay, and if I upset him, then I might be forced to leave." When she hears his roommates enter, she speaks up: "Stan, please, can we just do this later? Your walls are really thin."
He reassures her that his roomies don't mind.
"Wait," she says, "aren't you going to use a condom?"
"Please don't make me do that..." he implores. "I'm clean. Are you?"
"There was no way for me to win," she declares, and gives herself over to the advances of her host. The scenario repeated itself again and again over the several days she remained in his flat. Back home, her networking trip over, she wrote about the incident.
What person thinks that a man invites you to come stay with him and sleep in his bed and that this will be all there is to it?
"I had nowhere else to stay." Meaning, "I thought I'd freeload rather than earning money or searching out one of the rooming houses that still exist for young women." When I first got to New York, I stayed at the 47th Street Y. Shower down the hall and all that.
Also, if you put yourself in a situation like this woman did, where you finally just get tired of the "ordeal" of turning him down, who really is to blame -- but you?
Nehring says this, too, about Sophia's "trading sex for rent" scheme:
As difficult as it can be to judge the suffering of others, it seems clear that she was not overpowered by Stan so much as she tacitly accepted a sex-for-rent deal with him. Worrying that erotic activity will be overheard by acquaintances a few feet away--rather than, say, signaling to them for help--suggests assent. As does, perhaps, continuing to have sex with him after he brushed off her suggestion that he use a condom. To claim that Sophia presented to Stan "every iteration of 'no' that a person could muster," as a Salon writer and many others have done--is simply inaccurate.Let me stop here to say that Stan is a jerk, a boor, and an opportunist. His encounter with Sophia was seedy. Had I stayed in his bed that night and subsequent nights, I'd regret it very badly too. But regret is not the same thing as being victimized.
The fact that a number of young (and less young) women feel moved to equate the two suggests a real fragility in our culture. As sex has become an expectation between available single persons rather than a surprise or a transgression, it has also become less tempting and meaningful. And as touch--via "Cuddle Up To Me" parlors, Tinder-style apps, and ubiquitous massage and sensual "service" providers--has become available on tap, it has grown easy for a person "tapped" to feel used and unsatisfied--especially when she is emotionally invested. But these are the risks of freedom.
And if, by our teens, we have not followed Hamlet's advice to Ophelia to "get thee to a nunnery," there are endless risks and trade-offs we embrace in our lives. The fruit of these risks can make us legitimately unhappy or unproud or angry--just as they can enchant, inspire, and transform us for the better. Either way, the attempt to eliminate them, via Big Brother-like legislation and finger-pointing, is a cure often worse than the disease.
...It's worse because it turns the clock back on gender equality and gender relations both. It cuts the breeze of freedom, exploration, and responsibility that was once integral to the American dream.
...When everyone is a rape victim, no one is a rape victim. When enfranchised women who take their chances with men they find attractive or useful are equated with those who are forced to have sex via threats or deeds, everybody loses: The enfranchised women are cheated of the personal equality and responsibility for which their feminist forebears fought. The women assaulted are robbed of legitimacy because those who might hear of their plight are increasingly desensitized to the concept of rape and fail to act with conviction to punish and prevent it.
via @cathyyoung63
I use to bum a couch off of my college buddies when visiting their fair city.
There were in fact a few times in the middle of the night I had to tell them my rhoids were on fire, and my scabies raging.
And that was just a couch!
jerry at April 8, 2015 8:36 PM
Hmm, I just read
https://medium.com/human-parts/we-dont-have-to-do-anything-9148a953f39d
I have to say, had I stayed for a week, sharing my buddies beds beds with them, after letting them pay for my meals, then drinking their gin and snorting their coke and smoking their friend's grass, well, regardless of my rhoids or my wife and kids, I would hope I had the good manners to let them use my ass and not whine about it.
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/02/americas_sex_abuse_surprise_why_our_search_for_monsters_is_blinding_us/
> This man “did not think” he was a serial predator. He believed “consent seemed to have been given,” despite an account from Katz that features every iteration of “no” that a person could muster.
... except you know, using the word "no", or getting out of bed and into the sleeping bag she had brought along. The first night. And the second night. And the third night. And the fourth night. And never calling a friend, making alternative arrangements, flying home, or finding a hotel.
How much does one week of coke, grass and gin cost in Manhattan anyway?
jerry at April 8, 2015 8:51 PM
He declared his intentions early. When a man says something like, "you can sleep in my bed, ha-ha", that's him saying that he's hoping to have sex (in a crude and boorish fashion). That's a good time to make it clear either that a) you won't, or b) you'll find other accommodation.
Mike at April 8, 2015 9:12 PM
If a man says to me I don't want to use a condom then I say you can use your hand haha. She's not just being passive, she's risking her health by being so passive. I am stunned this girl is this stupid. If you don't want to sleep with a man the correct thing to say is no. Wow.
Nina at April 9, 2015 4:26 AM
The reality is, heterosexual non-IV drug users are unlikely to get HIV.
But yes, if you don't want to sleep with a man, the correct word is "No." And you also don't stay over and sleep in his bed. You earn some cash and you stay at the 47th Street Y, with the showers in the hall, or at one of a few rooming houses for women in Manhattan that you discover when (and if) you are looking to have a housing situation that does not involve being pressured to sex with some guy.
What's sick is that now the guy's repeatedly urging for a woman to have sex is now turned into a form of rape rather than just what it is: male sexuality.
In almost every species, the males more aggressively pursue sex than the females.
Amy Alkon at April 9, 2015 4:49 AM
Wow. . .sounds like someone needs to Check Her Privilege. . .
That is unbelievable naivety. . .
Keith Glass at April 9, 2015 4:52 AM
Right, the way to make sure a guy knows you don't want sex is to sleep in his bed and have sex with him night after night. Yep, that's real clear...
This is so nuts that I just had to go sign in at Salon and leave a lengthy comment to this effect. Given how all the other comments there were sympathetic to Ms. Katz, I expect the flames to reach pretty high.
Or else my comment will just be quietly deleted. Any bets?
a_random_guy at April 9, 2015 5:45 AM
You know what? I read (skimmed) the article, and I'm not seeing where the woman accused the guy of rape. It looks to me like she did more or less what Amy says she's done - she made some questionable decisions, she accepted the consequences, and now she's regretfully writing about it. She does make one reference to "sexual assault", but a lot more "I failed"-type comments. Doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.
kf at April 9, 2015 6:24 AM
Sophia Katz [b. 1994] is a writer and artist from Toronto, Ontario.
"... his sweater lifted slightly to reveal a tiny tattoo in a similar font to one of my own that said “fuck america.” I laughed.
“Nice tattoo,” I said."
A tat saying "fuck (insert a country you don't live in)". Talk about being unassertive.
Maybe she's a granddaughter of someone that "left" the US during the '60's to avoid 'Nam.
Bob in Texas at April 9, 2015 6:36 AM
She is pitiful. God I hope my daughters have better sense.
Yes, she should made clear when the offer was made that she didn't plan/want to sleep with him. He still would have tried likely but she could at least say I told you so.
And how the hell do you have sex without a condom outside of a relationship? Stupid. I would be embarrassed to admit that to a friend nevermind publicly.
Katrina at April 9, 2015 7:10 AM
Blaming the editor in this case only makes sense in the context of progressivism, which would have us believe all women are victims by default and can't think or act for themselves. Pathetic.
Blasphemy Cuttlefish at April 9, 2015 7:25 AM
The enfranchised women are cheated of the personal equality and responsibility for which their feminist forebears fought.
No they fucking arent.
That they used their equality in a manner they came to regret and failed to properly use the responsibility they were given is on them, not the guy they chose to willingly have sex with.
If I'm given $20 and I spend it on a crappy fast food lunch at Mcdonalds and a few hours later find an autographed copy of my favorite book I dont get to blame McDonalds of cheating me out of my money.
lujlp at April 9, 2015 7:26 AM
@kf: You're absolutely right, Ms. Katz isn't crying rape, although she does blame the guy for not reading her mind.
However, the articles at Elle and Salon make no bones about it.
a_random_guy at April 9, 2015 7:30 AM
Also Katz doesnt have to cry rape, shes letting everyone else do it for her, and more importantly, not disagreeing.
lujlp at April 9, 2015 7:35 AM
Why did she keep going back?
KateC at April 9, 2015 7:37 AM
To be honest I don't really care about articles written in Elle and Salon. They're gonna do what they do. The article written by the woman herself has (IMO) a heavy "I screwed up tone". Even if she were more strident about blaming the guy she'd simply be wrong, which is fine. A far sight from identifying him by name, or reporting him to the police.
kf at April 9, 2015 7:55 AM
So . . . she traded sex for a place to stay and feels bad about it hmmm? possibly because it felt a little like prostitution? And I don't actually think the guy was boorish and crude -- he just thought he got lucky! So, he makes a joke about sleeping in his bed (ha ha!) and then she actually does (!?! WOW) She brought along a sleeping bag, she could have slept on the floor or couch, but she didn't. Hookups are pretty common in some circles, no big deal. Maybe he actually liked her and thought it might be going somewhere? It doesn't really matter what he thought about - he just went with the flow. He had no way of knowing what she thought about it because she DIDN'T TELL HIM. He's not a mind reader and apparently he didn't force her. She didn't want to sleep with him? She could have been clear -- "Hey, thanks for the offer to stay, you know nothing is going to happen right? is that still OK? otherwise I can find another place" If she had the least bit of creepy vibe from him at all then she gets that out of the way right away. Assuming the creepy vibe doesn't make her question the wisdom of staying with a random stranger in the first place
chickia at April 9, 2015 8:13 AM
So she was okay with "going on a 'bender'" while in New York? And she was "open to taking [Stan's drugs] for free?" And still okay when he texted her that he'd procured a large quantity of gin and cocaine?
This was a networking trip? Riiiight. 'cause when I'm in full-networking mode, I wanna be strung out and hung over.
==============================
Stan's a passive-aggressive tool.
And she's an idiot for letting him manipulate her.
==============================
It seems that she knows that she screwed up, but she doesn't seem to know how she screwed up. That's the disturbing part.
Conan the Grammarian at April 9, 2015 8:15 AM
She's 20 and a prospective writer. Likely, she's been in college. Even if not, she's had to encounter young men who want to get in her pants. Maybe she's hanging with the good Christian boys at campus christian club whose parents shamed then for masturbating.
Many parents don't prepare their daughters or sons for the reality of life. Mine didn't. My mother's sex advice to me was silence. To my brother, she said "keep it zipped". ??? I ekd-educated - I'm a scientist and an info junkie. I learned where not to put myself to reduce risks like this young woman clearly didn't do.
Folks are so excited, especially sex-talk avoiders when someone is pregnant. Like it magically happened. Awesome babies but don't share the realities of sex.
My step-daughter was in middle school. Tall, pretty and she liked cute skirts and tops that guys would leer at. I told her what guys think about clothes like those. She was pissed and asked her dad. He confirmed it and went on to educate her what guys really think. Her comment was that 'god made guys dumb'. It was uncomfortable at times to be real. We made an effort to educate her about sex, it's consequences and what can happen. Her dad shared a lot if it via email to reduce the discomfort. I live in the south. Information is short.
Upon my divorce from her dad, she gave me advice on dating, going to bars, how to avoid getting date rape drugs in my drink, etc.
I'm sure my stepdaughter made mistakes. The gal in the story can learn from her mistakes. Maybe she really was that naive. She can choose to learn from her mistakes or not to.
A lack of education from parents about how things really works is tragic. I educated myself no thanks needed to my Christian parents. I'm gladly a heathen too.
Susan Parker at April 9, 2015 8:25 AM
"welcome to sleep in my bed--ha ha."
What a grotesque beta male move. She should have refused to stay with him on the basis of that "ha ha" alone. I think she's who the Jack Nicholson character in "As Good As It Gets" was thinking of when he, as a writer, described his way of writing female characters as "I think of a man. And then remove all reason and accountability."
BlogDog at April 9, 2015 9:24 AM
I can see how the current political climate, and academic climate encourages this kind of thinking.
A bigger worry is that these woman, many of which will get worthless degrees, that will prepare them to do exactly nothing, will be the same deluded nitwits twenty years from now, and will vote accordingly.
Isab at April 9, 2015 10:32 AM
"will be the same deluded nitwits twenty years from now, and will vote accordingly."
That's a feature, not a bug.
dee nile at April 9, 2015 10:54 AM
So for young women "No" means:
“Hey, I’m really tired. Could we not do this right now?"
"...can we just do this later"
"I did the things I thought would make him finish faster."
No wonder they cry "RAPE" a year later, they require a LOT of time to process things.
He probably thought she was really into him.
Bob in Texas at April 9, 2015 12:23 PM
Smoking weed, kissing girls at the bar, banging a guys she barely knows...I'm surprised she didn't end up in some kind of orgy/gangbang with the roommates. I seriously thought that's where the story was going next.
Blasphemy Cuttlefish at April 9, 2015 1:02 PM
She's lucky she had to go back to Canada. Given her passivity and his passive-aggressive bullying, if she'd stayed any longer, they'd probably be married.
Conan the Grammarian at April 9, 2015 2:36 PM
rich white girls write this sort of tell all, or commentary about it...
while poor girls end up dead.
it's prolly what passes as street cred these days... from Lena whats-her-name down to every wanted-to-be-wild-wishes-they-could-write suburbanite...
the sign of the apocalypse will be when you've lived too well for too long, that you don't see your own destruction when you can stop it.
Cherry2000 humanlike™ dolls cannot get here soon enough.
SwissArmyD at April 9, 2015 3:06 PM
" You know what? I read (skimmed) the article, and I'm not seeing where the woman accused the guy of rape."
The point of the exercise is to get everybody else to do it, by writing this. She can't even be assertive enough to do THAT herself. She's going to let the readers of the article get a mob together to get this guy on the internet.
crella at April 9, 2015 3:16 PM
I see that's been done already! I hadn't read the other article yet.
Wow. Even one of his former room mates said that it was rape...but they were all there night after night, and did nothing?
crella at April 9, 2015 3:24 PM
Last post, I promise, but.....I just don't get these people.....from the comment section-
" Around four in the morning I woke up to a hand reaching in to my pajama pants. I clumsily knocked it away not considering my surroundings, figuring it was my husband, until I heard the voice. That voice was not my husband's. I told him to cease touching me and to get as far away from me as possible. He responded by using his forearm to pin my shoulders to the bed. I realized that he was already naked. He pulled my pants and underwear off and began to crudely insert himself inside me. I told him that I didn't want to have sex with him and that I was married and that he needed to leave me alone. He drunkenly slurred a "shhhhh" in my ear. I eventually realized that this was not going to stop and I began to do anything I could to distract myself. I did math, I counted ceiling tiles, until I felt him begin to try to press into me again"
What!?
crella at April 9, 2015 3:29 PM
Right?!! You don't just lie there if someone is trying to rape you! You fight back, scream, do anything to draw attention. WTF is wrong with people nowadays?!!!
BunnyGirl at April 9, 2015 4:18 PM
Is it possible she wanted to on some level but did not want to be seen as a slut? Our culture makes that a lot more shameful than using sex for gain, which it actually extols in many ways.
Don at April 9, 2015 5:37 PM
Some of the comments for the Elle are absolutely incomprehensible to me. This one from this poor, poor, victimized distressed damsel, for example...
Kate Woods · Sanford, North Carolina
The years I suffered while dealing with guilt and denial weren't enough for you? You needed to add your voice to the others judging me for what I suffered? Shame on the author, shame on Elle. This article is going to damage survivors. Your opinion, Ms Nehring, is detrimental to the mental health of millions of survivors and I hope one day you realize that fear or threat induced consent is not consent and when you do I hope your emotional recovery is swift and full and you never have someone attack you the way your article has attacked, accused, and judged me.
April 7 at 1:36pm
How DARE that horrible "Elle" article ATTACK (and then presume to get all judge-ey on her as well!) this stalwart survivor of the Sex Wars!!
In reality, if this is the way many of the young women coming out into the real world after their safe comfy coddling cocoon of collegiate co-dependence, we are indeed doomed.
Felicity Bandersnatch at April 9, 2015 6:11 PM
Felicity,
Why did you think the marriage rates were plunging? Would you marry someone like that? Especially when they can leave any time things get too tough and take more than half of what the two of you worked for. Why have kids with someone who will take them away from you the moment she gets a hangnail?
Honestly I don't buy the authors claim to ignorance. It is fashionable to write like you are a retarded two year old but I expect she knew exactly what she was doing and is just grumpy she had to pay up on her end of the deal. And the publicity probably isn't hurting her drunk coked-up career either.
Ben at April 9, 2015 6:39 PM
Guess no one told them that "safe" rooms (w/coloring books), trigger warnings, and assuming that "privileges"(?) have checked ONLY happen on college campuses.
Everywhere else in the world girls/women know that "NO!" might, might slow guys down; but it really doesn't stop them unless you mean it.
And even then there are lots of guys that TRULY BELIEVE that you don't mean it for them.
It's truly sad because abuse does hit hard in many ways and does happen to many.
This type of "story" does no one good because of the "don't blame the victim" falsehood.
There can be two people at fault (one that drinks themselves to oblivion and one that takes advantage of it). Including this situation in w/child abuse by family members, date rape, violent rape, etc. is a sham.
Bob in Texas at April 9, 2015 6:40 PM
Amy, one other thing about your approach to taking risks with guys: You also aren't afraid to speak up in your own best interest, even if it means that people won't like you, which is huge. I'm not saying that you could cold-cock a 6'5", 250-pound would-be rapist (nor could I), but most men aren't hard-core rapists, just opportunists. You were realistic about your own ability to protect yourself by, y'know, saying, "No, no way, this ends here." This young woman wasn't, because she shouldn't have to be!!! Or so she has been told.
Look, I agree that girls are typically socialized to be nice and accommodating and not hurt people's feelings. That's been done for countless generations. Until recently, they were also socialized to be careful about being alone with young men in vulnerable situations. That last part is pretty much gone now in the age of equal opportunity and sexual liberation. Some women either never take to the "nice" socialization, or manage to reject it (or have it combined with "it's okay to stand up for yourself!"), and thus manage to navigate some sticky situations. Others want the world to conform to them, or just don't want to do the work. Which, yes, life is unfair! If you're going to be bunking with strangers in NYC at age 20, I suggest you accept the unfairness of life and figure out what you need to do to minimize risk without missing opportunities. It's called being an adult.
marion at April 10, 2015 6:17 AM
"I told him that I didn't want to have sex with him and that I was married and that he needed to leave me alone. He drunkenly slurred a "shhhhh" in my ear. I eventually realized that this was not going to stop and I began to do anything I could to distract myself. I did math, I counted ceiling tiles, until I felt him begin to try to press into me again"
What!?
Posted by: crella at April 9, 2015 3:29 PM
___________________________________
Note: I'm not referring to Sophia Katz, here.
Haven't read the comment at the website, but I suspect that if that commentator had to tell the man she was married, he was probably a stranger and that MAY have been enough to frighten her into submission. (Especially if he's a lot bigger and could have chosen to strangle her in his drunken fit.)
It's been said many times that there is NO one right way to fight off a sex assault once it starts happening. Even with someone you know well, if he suddenly reveals himself as a Jekyll/Hyde type, trying to scream or fight him off COULD be fatal - and you don't want to risk that. (However, one good tip is: IF you yell, always yell "FIRE!" not "help!")
BTW, I wish I could find the comments for this article - there doesn't seem to be any place for them, and if GQ Magazine has a letters page in the hard copy, they're very good at hiding it.
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201503/mens-rights-activism-the-red-pill?printable=true
From the last sixth or so of the article:
...The night winds on, with discussion of rape and the smothering of penises, the sorrows of false accusations and the narcissism of young girls. A sore point for Factory (Dan Moore, a divorced dad), who has two daughters, who, like young women everywhere, he says, compete for the most exaggerated rape claim. It is, he says, a status thing. When one of his daughters came home one night and said she'd been raped, he said, "Are you fucking kidding me?" Sitting with us, he hikes his voice up to a falsetto in imitation: " 'Oh, I just got raped.' " He laughs. There's a moment of silence. A bridge too far? "I told her if she pressed charges, I'd disown her."
(Paul) Elam, whose attention has drifted, grins through his beard. "That's good fathering," he says.
Factory loves his children. He would have reacted differently if it had been what he in theory considers a legitimate claim, but—"if you don't have videotape or forensic, a whole lot of bruises, I don't give a fuck."...
_________________________________
OK, so I wasn't there and I don't know just why the daughter's story wasn't plausible to him. However, it sounds a lot to me as though Factory was saying that if a woman "chooses" not to fight when threatened with a gun or knife, that's not rape - or, as least, not the type of rape the courts should be bothered with.
I suspect he also goes by factory2590 - based on his Youtube videos.
lenona at April 10, 2015 8:54 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2015/04/take-no-respons.html#comment-5954826">comment from marionAmy, one other thing about your approach to taking risks with guys: You also aren't afraid to speak up in your own best interest, even if it means that people won't like you, which is huge. I'm not saying that you could cold-cock a 6'5", 250-pound would-be rapist (nor could I), but most men aren't hard-core rapists, just opportunists. You were realistic about your own ability to protect yourself by, y'know, saying, "No, no way, this ends here."
Exactly, Marion.
And if women can't do that, they either need to recognize that and see that they are protected by adults at all times or they need to accept that they are basically bunnies for the slaughter to any guy who crosses their path with less than courtly manners.
Amy Alkon
at April 10, 2015 8:58 AM
My suspicion is that a lot of these widly wifely naive women grew up without a father in the home, and probably no brothers.
They failed to learn that men are different from women in their formative years,
Isab at April 10, 2015 10:07 AM
But, but, girls don't need a father. A strong, empowered woman can give her all the guidance and role model she needs. Right?
Conan the Grammarian at April 10, 2015 12:41 PM
Bah, what a tease. I thought she was auditioning for a "editor's" spot on the Penthouse Forum. Total downer ending there. Would not read again.
Sio at April 10, 2015 12:44 PM
"Haven't read the comment at the website, but I suspect that if that commentator had to tell the man she was married, he was probably a stranger and that MAY have been enough to frighten her into submission. (Especially if he's a lot bigger and could have chosen to strangle her in his drunken fit.)"
It was a very long comment, and I didn't want to copy it all, the woman said she was staying at a friend's house.
crella at April 10, 2015 7:21 PM
The time for Ms. Katz to say no and stick to it was during the initial e-mails. In a somewhat more honest time 40 or 50 years ago, his offer would have been called "a bed for a bang". It wasn't so clearly stated, but it was clear enough to anyone that isn't utterly naive about young men. She said no but then agreed - apparently after he upped the offer to include free booze and drugs. So it appeared to him that she was willing to use sex to get a room, food, and drugs.
He isn't entirely blameless. A real gentleman would have accepted her first e-mailed no to sleeping in his bed and either agreed to her using a sleeping bag, or told her to make other arrangements. And causal sex with no condom is just plain stupid. But the big problem is that this young woman wouldn't stay no and stick to it.
markm at April 11, 2015 6:42 AM
When you commend prudence, you're called a rape apologist.
So, do what you gotta do. Let us know how it works out.
Richard Aubrey at April 12, 2015 6:02 PM
Leave a comment