When they arrest a free American citizen for refusing to answer questions they immediately inform him, "You have the right to remain silent."

Great point, Ken.

Yeah, I believe he works for the national observatory, NOAO. You have to go through a Border Patrol checkpoint between the home office in Tucson and the telescopes at Kitt Peak Observatory.

I was there a few weeks ago for a meeting and they had to warn all foreign nationals that they should skip the telescope tour if they hadn't packed their passports.

Perhaps if Dems let the fence be built as federal law requires, we might not have to have all of these checkpoints. And like it or not, checkpoints have been okayed by SCOTUS.

The video of the trial of Steven Anderson, who was arrested at a checkpoint for choosing to remain silent, is interesting. The state's attorney was a congenial weasel.

Anyone, not just the police should have the right to ask you if you are an American citizen, and if you are operating a motor vehicle, to see your driver's license.

The constitution, as the courts have stated time and time again, provides you security in your home, and provides certain protections for your speech, and also protections against criminal prosecutions.

No where does it provide you a right to travel anonymously on a public conveyance, or a public road.

If it did, requiring people to have a driver's license would be unconstitutional.

So, Isab, I take it you practice Constitutional Law at your practice? And that you are starving?

No, I do business law, and taxes. But your beef is with the Constitution, and the Supreme Court.

I'm just the messenger.

I would never consider not answering a border patrol agent, who asked me about my citizenship status.

It is just stupid. OTOH I don't voluntarily talk to police, and would advise you not to either.

The US Border Patrol has ABSOLUTE authority to stop, detain and question ANY persons within 100 miles of any International Border, International Waterway or International Port of Entry. You do NOT have the right to remain silent when questioned by the Border Patrol, you MUST allow them to question you and allow them to establish your identity and they have authority to hold you until they are satisfied. Did you know the Mississippi River is an International Waterway? Did you know every airport in the US is designated as a Port of Entry?

You live in a Police State, the only question is, do you know it?

Isab: "No where does it [the Constitution] provide you a right to travel anonymously..."

The Constitution doesn't provide the rights to live, be free and pursue happiness either. The Declaration of Independence says it's self-evident that we're endowed by the Creator with these and other rights that are unalienable.

The Constitution assumes rights already exist - like the right to freedom of speech, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to practice a religion, the right to assemble peacefully, the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure - and prohibits the government from infringing on them.

The Constitution does provide a couple of rights - for example the right to trial by a jury, the right to vote at the age of 18.

If the Declaration of Independence is wrong and there is no Creator who endowed us with rights then perhaps rights are granted (or revoked) by politicians and bureaucrats, i.e. government - by way of laws, regulations, executive orders, amendments to the Constitution or some United Nations treaty or declaration.

The government certainly seems to act as though that is the case.

Astra:
Perhaps if Dems let the fence be built as federal law requires, we might not have to have all of these checkpoints.

You do realize that even if we ran a 60' tall fence from Tijuana to Brownsville on Tuesday, that by Wednesday there would be people selling 61 foot ladders in every town along the way? No, a fence just won't cut it. That's why we need minefields. If it weren't so persistently deserty I would also suggest sharks (lasers optional)

"The Constitution doesn't provide the rights to live, be free and pursue happiness either. The Declaration of Independence says it's self-evident that we're endowed by the Creator with these and other rights that are unalienable."

The court systems of the U.S. enforce nothing in the Decleration of Independence, which was essentially a Letter to King George III of England.

They only enforce constitutional rights, and I can assure you, not one case has found that the Border Patrol has no right to question you about your citizenship.

Perhaps you think aliens entering illegally should all get a free pass, once their feet touch American soil? And that people who overstay their visas should also be ignored?

Or perhaps you think a Border patrol agent is issued some magic pair of glasses that they can use to just look at you, and tell that you are an American citizen?

JB in KC:
I would never consider not answering a border patrol agent, who asked me about my citizenship status... It is just stupid.

People are allowed to be stupid. Showing up in a keffiyeh and a nicely embroidered kurta, saying !!ALAHU ACKBAR!! and reaching waaaaay under the seat would count as pretty stupid. Saying no comment, not that much. Besides, he can be stupid if he wants. Is it also criminal?

OTOH I don't voluntarily talk to police, and would advise you not to either.

You will notice that the officer made multiple very smooth, very professional attempts to get the driver to start talking about something, anything? Do you suppose they doing that for the drivers benefit?

The driver appeared to feel that the only way to win this game was to not play, to not buy in starting right up front. They will work you all over if you let them, but he did not let them. He might not be as smooth about it as you would be, but he's not a trained lawyer either.

I thought he was professional and polite, and he didn't get tazed, so I'd say he won.

"You will notice that the officer made multiple very smooth, very professional attempts to get the driver to start talking about something, anything? Do you suppose they doing that for the drivers benefit?"

The correct answer, is: I am a US citizen. Have a nice day officer"

please don't confuse the Border Patrol with the Police.

You can be as stupid as you want to be, but being lethally stupid sometimes results in a permanent termination of your stupidity.

Don't pick a fight with a guy with a gun, no matter how wrong you think he is....

Isab: "The court systems of the U.S. enforce nothing in the Decleration of Independence, which was essentially a Letter to King George III of England. They only enforce constitutional rights..."

The people had rights before the Constitution existed. The Declaration of Independence points that out. Apparently King George didn't know and needed to be informed of it.

Just because the Constitution doesn't state that a certain right exists doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not granted in the Constitution but, as pointed out in the Declaration of Independence, were provided by the Creator and do exist - with or without the Constitution.

Just because cops have the power to intimidate and coerce you to answer questions doesn't mean they have the right to. During the process of arresting you for not answering questions they will inform you that you have the right to remain silent, i.e. not answer questions, that anything you say will be used against you, and that you can decide at any time to exercise the right to not answer questions or make any statements.

But that's all bullshit, isn't it.

The problem with this video is that this is a white man - he won't undergo the level of scrutiny a non-white person would.

Send me through border patrol while refusing to answer questions and I'll probably do fine (I'm 1/2 caucasian, 1/2 mexican and native american). Send my brother, who turned out darker than me...watch him be detained.

This guy acts like he's proving something, and he is. They aren't looking for white illegals at the border dude!

Isab: "The correct answer, is: I am a US citizen. Have a nice day officer"

When asked, "Are you a US citizen?", certainly the smart, simple thing for someone to do is smile and answer, "Yes", whether he's a citizen or not. I'm sure that's what drug dealers, human traffickers and terrorists would do.

Though I believe the drivers in the videos have a right to act like asses if they want, I just can't see any sense in making such a big deal out of answering a question that's no more significant than, "How are you today?" or "On your way to see Disneyland?" If they asked the cop in a friendly tone if he's from Arizona or wherever, he'd probably smile and say, "Yes" if that's the case, and maybe even say what city and whether or not he's been to Disneyland.

"please don't confuse the Border Patrol with the Police."

Talk about stupid. It wears a uniform and a badge, has a gun, works for the government, and uses coercion and violence to impose the edicts of politicians, bureaucrats and government on our asses. Call it whatever you want, but if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Working for the United States, instead of Arizona or some other government entity, doesn't give them the authority to ignore someone's Constitutional rights. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

"Don't pick a fight with a guy with a gun, no matter how wrong you think he is..."

Well that's it in a nutshell, isn't it. It doesn't matter what's right or wrong, constitutional or unconstitutional. What it all boils down to is who's holding the gun.

I think the drivers in the videos get all worked up when asked, "Are you a US citizen?" because what the cop is really saying is, "Are you a US citizen? Answer me or else."

"Well that's it in a nutshell, isn't it. It doesn't matter what's right or wrong, constitutional or unconstitutional. What it all boils down to is who's holding the gun."

Pretty much.

A cop can't ask you if you are a citizen or not. A Border patrol agent can.

You have a nice little fantasy going on, that if you just *imsist* on what you think your constitutional rights are (never mind that might not be the way the courts have interpreted those rights for the last 200+ years) somehow government actors, are going to say,* excuse me*, and let you go.

Real life doesn't work that way, natural rights are a nice idea, but without some sort of impartial justice system, and fair enforcement mechanism, the law is whatever the people in power say it is.

The U.S. does better than most, but my only question for you, is: "is this the hill you want to die on?" As we used to say in the military.

If it is, by all means, have at it. Just remember dead men don't have standing to sue for constitutional rights violations, and you wouldn't win anyway.

Isab: "You have a nice little fantasy going on, that if you just *imsist* on what you think your constitutional rights are ... somehow government actors, are going to say,* excuse me*, and let you go."

I think just the opposite, which is why I said above, "It doesn't matter what's right or wrong, constitutional or unconstitutional. What it all boils down to is who's holding the gun."

"...but my only question for you, is: "is this the hill you want to die on?"

Of course not, which is why I said above, "When asked, 'Are you a US citizen?', certainly the smart, simple thing for someone to do is smile and answer, 'Yes', whether he's a citizen or not" and "Though I believe the drivers in the videos have a right to act like asses if they want, I just can't see any sense in making such a big deal out of answering a question that's no more significant than, 'How are you today?'"

"A cop can't ask you if you are a citizen or not. A Border patrol agent can."

I think that cops, border patrol agents and any other kind of police pretty much ask whatever they want, even for a young woman's phone number, and if they don't get the response they want, arrest the person while informing them of their right to not answer questions or make statements.

Astra: Perhaps if Dems let the fence be built as federal law requires, we might not have to have all of these checkpoints.

This was not me, by the way.

cops, border patrol agents and any other kind of police pretty much ask whatever they want, even for a young woman's phone number, and if they don't get the response they want, arrest the person while informing them of their right to not answer questions or make statements.

Posted by: Ken R at April 8, 2015 12:41 AM

And this is why ethical politicians and the rest of us, are pushing for mandatory recordings of law enforcement interactions with the public,

But this has nothing to do with the Border patrol having the right, and in my view the responsibility to ask you if you are a citizen or not.

You tell the government, and the general public who you are in a million different ways, when you put plates on your car, get a drivers license, use your credit card, open a bank account, or collect a paycheck.

Even the Unabomber could not achieve complete anonymity.

If you think a Border patrol agent asking you if you are a citizen or not, is high on the list of privacy violations, you simply are not paying attention.

It's the Streisand effect.

Want to end up on someone's radar? Behave like this idiot did.