There are a lot of people who are pro-gay marriage who have become intolerant. These are the people who say, but not out loud, " I have a view of how the world should be. My way is the correct way. If there is anyone who thinks differently, then he is a bigot. If he keeps his mouth shut, no harm will come to him. But if he expresses his opinion ( whether Christian based or not ) which is different than mine, I will fire him, boycott him, or in some way marginalize him, or maybe begin an internet campaign to threaten his life."

What do you call these people ? I call them bullies.

"not only should you follow the law of the land -- not only should you do the minimum you have to do, you should go the extra mile."

So in the era of Jim Crow laws, Christians were required to be doubly good at racially segregating?

If you are wondering if it is worth being sued and losing your business to stand up for what you believe is right,

They shouldn't be sued or losing their business because they refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

On the other hand, Nick, I support boycotting businesses that refuse to provide their service for their gay customers. You think they're bullies, Nick? Really?

Since race is a protected class, this could never happen, but suppose a business refused to provide services for black people, or even an interracial couple because they don't believe in interracial marriages?

Are they still bullies if they "fire him, boycott him, or in some way marginalize him"? (Death threats are wildly inappropriate, no matter who the business refuses to provide services for, and such threats should be reported to the proper authorities, and punished according to the law.)

I do believe in boycotting those who views I find abhorrent and in encouraging like-minded people to do the same.

"... insist on our right to discriminate, we are hurting people"

"... boycotting those who views I find abhorrent and in encouraging like-minded people to do the same."

You can not escape becoming like those whom you abhor.

You can disagree with their point-of-view and lifestyle (maybe drug use, maybe abuse of women/children (see Muslims), etc.) AS LONG AS the whole fucking world agrees that that is okay (not Muslims 'cause they are Muslims ya know and the Greenies want us to buy our oil from them instead of producing it at home).

I guess the answer is include LGBTs (and Muslims?)in the definition of "race" AND tell business owners to please please subcontract out work that they do not wish to handle.

Bob in Texas: You can not escape becoming like those whom you abhor.

Balderdash.

Are there any readers out there who think this is o.k. ?

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/memories-pizza-closes-indiana-same-sex/2015/04/02/id/635990/

A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. I don't think the owners of that pizzeria feel so safe now.

These tactics do not win hearts and minds.

The problem is that this is compelling speech. What happens if someone asks a preacher, photographer, and caterer to come serve at a nudist wedding? Or a KKK themed wedding or gathering? Should they not have the right to refuse? How about an order for pornographic or death images on a cake? Should a Muslim deli be required to carry pork?
In all of these cases there are people who are willing to provide this service. It is not like taxis. Leave those alone who don't want to go to a nudist wedding or watch a gay couple kiss.

Patrick: "I do believe in boycotting those who views I find abhorrent and in encouraging like-minded people to do the same."

I do too. But I don't believe in using the police, guns, courts and jails of the government to force those whose views I find abhorrent to do what I want or ruin them.

Nick: "I don't think the owners of that pizzeria feel so safe now."

All the death threats and ugliness because the daughter of the owner said they wouldn't cater a gay wedding. In fact, the owner said in an interview that they don't cater any weddings at all, nor any other kinds of events. He did say that they have delivered pizzas to an annual event at a local high school.

The author of that article:

1. Believes that not having a slice of pizza at a wedding is truly and completely hurtful.

2. Has no opinion about threats to burn a person's business down.

Funny priorities they have.

Lots of places won't make a cake for a gay wedding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgWIhYAtan4

Off topic; but . . .

What kind of wedding caters pizza anyway?

Sorry; but, if I am going to shell out bucks for a nice wedding gift (one that is on YOUR wedding registry) I want more than pizza for food!

"dig our heels in and insist on our right to discriminate": This ugly mischaracterization of the Christian position demonstrates an argument made in bad faith. It should be ignored.

Nick: There are a lot of people who are pro-gay marriage who have become intolerant. These are the people who say, but not out loud, " I have a view of how the world should be. My way is the correct way. If there is anyone who thinks differently, then he is a bigot. If he keeps his mouth shut, no harm will come to him. But if he expresses his opinion ( whether Christian based or not ) which is different than mine, I will fire him, boycott him, or in some way marginalize him, or maybe begin an internet campaign to threaten his life."

What do you call these people ? I call them bullies.

There are a lot of people who are anti-gay marriage and they have always been intolerant. These are the people who say, loudly and proudly, "I have a view of how the world should be based on a book that I believe is 'holy'". My way is the correct way because it is God's way. If there is anyone who thinks differently, then he is against God. If he does not advocate for gay marriage, that's good because gay marriage is wrong. But if he advocates for gay marriage, attempts to make marriage legal for himself and the person he loves, this is opposed to my view (and God's view), so I will fight him will all my might, attempting to deny him the same opportunity I have, the opportunity to marry the person he loves.

What do you call these people? I call them Christian conservative bullies.

And they've been bullying and denigrating gays and lesbians FAR FAR LONGER than gays and lesbians have been bullying Christian conservatives.

In fact, regarding their attitude and actions toward gays and lesbians, Christian conservatives are like a classic bully at school. The bully pushes around a less-powerful kid for a long time. The bully tells him that the way he walks is funny, the way he talks is funny, the way he looks is funny. The bully tells the kid that he's inferior, that there's something wrong with him. The bully said he knows this because his dad told him so. Finally, the kid he's always been picking on has had enough. One day, after the bully taunts him yet again, and prevents him from getting into his locker, the kid rears back and takes a ferocious swing at bully. The bully is stunned and starts whining, "You hit me! You hit me! My nose hurts! You hurt me! Mommy!!! Daddy!!!"

The big bully turns into a big crybaby.

"...but suppose a business refused to provide services for black people, or even an interracial couple because they don't believe in interracial marriages?"

Gee. That looks a lot like the point of Crid's Five Cake Test™!

@ JD: So two wrongs make a right ?

Nick, things like death threats are not right. They're never right. Just like it wouldn't be right if, in my example, the picked-on kid brought a gun to school and shot the bully dead (even if I could understand him wanting to do so.)

But I don't see it as wrong for a picked-on kid to finally stand up to a bully and sock him in the face.

The simple fact is that if conservative Christians hadn't been such big bullies to gays & lesbians throughout history, and didn't continue to be big bullies towards gays & lesbians -- they continue to want to deny them the opportunity to marry the person they love -- there would be no reason for gays and lesbians (and straight people who support them) to retaliate.

Indiana Home Shopping

I don't think the owners of that pizzeria feel so safe now.

Given that these sad, woeful, put-upon Christians are making close to a million dollars off of their "difficulties," I will refrain from crying a river for them.

JD, I think you need to move to some totalitarian thugocracy like Russia, Cuba, or China so you can discover what *real* government bullying actually is.

It isn't Christians refusing to cater your gay wedding.

...and now the florist makes money off of being 'opressed'.

JJUC, where's my gofundme? I get opressed all the time here! (Amy, that kickback offer still stands, and I might buy some cakes from Crid).

JD it's actually quite simple. While yes, there has been resistance of Christians to Gay Marriage, even a hardcore Southern Baptist like my uncle didn't care if the government got completely out of marriage all together and treated it as a contract (civil unions for everyone, and religious people add a ceremony at a church to it too). The problem is that a certain subset of the gay activist population was encouraged by one party to only press for gay marriage because it would help bind gays to that party and increase the power of the government over all of its citizens. So, the views of both those who are actually the fire and brimstone, condemn them all Christians, and the moderates like my uncle, my gay cousin, and me are all being completely marginalized by these actions of a small radical crazy fringe of SJWs. Beyond that is the fact that, growing up in a church that had a huge share of those radical SJW types, I understand that most of their posturing is really a will to power, the manner in which they are willing to treat other people who disagree with them is appalling. There is a reason I don't go to that church anymore, nor to any of its denomination, and that reason is that those people cannot even begin to comprehend individual rights and freedom of conscience. And now if I'm a business owner I should be forced to cooperate with these facists? Because that is what they truly are, obligating businesses to serve in whatever manner the state requires. Then on top of that, you are going to say that someone who is publicly accommodating gays (according to the statutes in only Bloomington, West Lafayette, and Indianapolis, not in their little town, therefore going above and beyond the law) should be forced to participate in a ceremony that they do not wish to, and would probably never be asked to? That's your reason for saying it's acceptable to treat them as trash? Have you no sense of decency, sir?

JD it's actually quite simple. While yes, there has been resistance of Christians to Gay Marriage, even a hardcore Southern Baptist like my uncle didn't care if the government got completely out of marriage all together and treated it as a contract (civil unions for everyone, and religious people add a ceremony at a church to it too). The problem is that a certain subset of the gay activist population was encouraged by one party to only press for gay marriage because it would help bind gays to that party and increase the power of the government over all of its citizens. So, the views of both those who are actually the fire and brimstone, condemn them all Christians, and the moderates like my uncle, my gay cousin, and me are all being completely marginalized by these actions of a small radical crazy fringe of SJWs. Beyond that is the fact that, growing up in a church that had a huge share of those radical SJW types, I understand that most of their posturing is really a will to power, the manner in which they are willing to treat other people who disagree with them is appalling. There is a reason I don't go to that church anymore, nor to any of its denomination, and that reason is that those people cannot even begin to comprehend individual rights and freedom of conscience. And now if I'm a business owner I should be forced to cooperate with these facists? Because that is what they truly are, obligating businesses to serve in whatever manner the state requires. Then on top of that, you are going to say that someone who is publicly accommodating gays (according to the statutes in only Bloomington, West Lafayette, and Indianapolis, not in their little town, therefore going above and beyond the law) should be forced to participate in a ceremony that they do not wish to, and would probably never be asked to? That's your reason for saying it's acceptable to treat them as trash? Have you no sense of decency, sir?

Should local businesses who would provide services for a family-friendly outdoor bluegrass festival (e.g. security, janitorial services, first aid station, sound system, flyers, brochures, advertisements) be forced to provide services for a gay pride festival, BDSM convention, marijuana festival, biker rally, Christian evangelism crusade, Islamic festival, Bar Mitzvah, Occupy Wall street, Al Sharpton, Lyndon LaRouche, La Raza or Westboro Baptist Church rallies?

Or maybe just force them to serve certain groups that are deemed more special than others?

What are some other things free Americans should be forced to do that they aren't already?

It's bad enough to use the threat of violence - via the police, guns, courts and jails of the government - to stop a free person from doing something he wants to do (form relationships, smoke pot, sell whole milk, fly a flag, provide a service, work at a job) It's as bad or worse to use the threat of violence to force a free person to do something he doesn't want to do.

JD, I think you need to move to some totalitarian thugocracy like Russia, Cuba, or China so you can discover what *real* government bullying actually is.

Isab to friend who has just been been mugged and has told Isab how scared she was: "Jennifer, I think you need to have salmon slathered all over your body and be placed close by hungry grizzlies to discover what "real" fear actually is."

It isn't Christians refusing to cater your gay wedding.

Martians? Vegetarians? Rastafarians? Californians? Librarians? Contrarians? Septuagenarians?

"It isn't Christians refusing to cater your gay wedding."

Nobody should be forced to cater any wedding, or any other event, or be required to give a reason for their choice that satisfies someone else.

What if a caterer wanted to specialize in gay weddings? Or Jewish weddings (based on Torah), or Muslim weddings (based on Koran), or Navaho weddings (tribe prohibits gay marriage), and not do any others? That wouldn't even be an issue, would it. Well, maybe it would for Jews.

But those damn Christians need to be defeated and subdued! This is all about hatred against a certain group of people; and it isn't gays.

The pizzeria that got caught up in this controversy doesn't even do catering. And they're getting death threats because the owner's daughter said they wouldn't cater a gay wedding.

Navajo is spelled with a J

Given how many of them our government killed we can at least spell their tribal name correctly.

Yes. Navajo. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1_gqbQcI60

This is going around Facebook:
"If you are outraged about some pizza not being served, and not that gays are being thrown from rooftops by ISIS, you may be a liberal."

Everybody thinks of themselves first - and most.