So why the fuck do we have the TSA as well? Fucking shit crackers the terrorists have won! Stupid government idiots.

Now that airliners have intrusion resistant cockpit doors, and, in the event of a hijacking, pilots are trained to put the airplane on the nearest suitable piece of pavement, air marshalls are a complete, total, absolute waste of money.

But, hey, I'm an airline pilot. What the hell would I know?

PS: Air marshalls exist to prevent highjackings. The TSA exists to prevent airplanes getting blown up.

Way different.

If air marshals are allowed to arrest parents who refuse to even try to quiet their recalcitrant brats, I'll consider it a fair use of taxpayer dollars.

"The TSA exists to prevent airplanes getting blown up."

Not this again... sigh.

No, the TSA exists to give the marginally-skilled government jobs.

Patrick is correct. And to give out government dollars to those like Chertoff and the companies they represent with the pretense of security as the excuse.

Also, it's obedience training for the American public -- to be docile in the face of Soviet-/Stasi-style authority grabs the go against the constitutional principles this country was founded upon.

(Go quietly, proles!)

Approximately 11 minutes after it was set up, the air marshal program identified 2 major institutional goals, which were a) an early-retirement/sinecure machine for Federal law-enforcement and retired military and b) a dumping-place for the misfits and operational failures of the entire Federal law-enforcement juggernaut.

You just have to sit back and ask yourself - what undercover anti-terrorist program enforces a dress code for its operatives? A dress code? Really? And (as I understand it) they meant it! Officers were actually disciplined for dress-code violations.

Flight crew and frequent fliers could identify these guys (always middle-aged white guys - no breasts, no tattoos, no beards, hair at regulation length) 99% of the time or better. You can be sure that the bad guys - if there were any flying anymore, I think they long-ago left aviation behind as an actual target - could identify them too.

The sheer ridiculousness of thinking that bad guys will run the risk of an airport filled with armed, uniformed people all supposedly looking for them. but will somehow be magically deterred by the one middle-aged guy in seat 6B with his 9mm, is just absurd. A gunfight at 50,000 feet? This is movie-plot nonsense. And even if it happens - so what? So the plane crashes? Win for the bad guys! So he saves the plane, all Bruce Willis an' sh*t? Oh well. We'll try again tomorrow.

But it's the Federal gummint. We will still have an Air Marshal Program in 2035. I guarantee it.

llater,

llamas

The TSA exists to prevent airplanes getting blown up.

Patrick has the right answer.

Also, I can probably bribe a TSA screener to let me take my drugs on an aeroplane. And once I've done that, I can get anything or anyone on a flight. tick...tick...tick...tick

And if I can't find one I can bribe, I can observe the screeners and find one filching stuff out of carry on. That one I can blackmail.

Air marshals do provide a useful thing: keeping the rest of the passengers from killing wanna-be hijackers. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is a thing.

Air marshals served a purpose back in the days when there was no airport security. However, the institution of metal detectors in the 1970s drastically cut down on hijackings. At that point, the air marshal program had outlived its usefulness. The 9/11 tactic was one that would only work once; today, no one is going to be able to hijack a plane with a box cutter.

And yeah, the bad guys would have little difficulty subverting TSA measures.

"bribe a TSA screener"

Whyyyy? Bribe a baggage handler! Or a plane technician. I bet your risks of getting caught would go up bribing TSA morons. They would probably brag all over facebook about the sweet bribe they got.

No, the TSA exists to give the marginally-skilled government jobs. ~ Posted by: Patrick at October 21, 2015 5:11 AM

And to transfer government money to unions through paychecks.

...4,000 bored cops fly around the country First Class....

'cause al Qaeda don't fly coach?

Used to shoot at a range where an Air Marshal frequented.

He often showed up with a case of ammo. Sometimes 2. Free to anybody there to shoot.

.357 SiG. Pricy stuff. Nice duty hollowpoint.

Their duty ammo. That they were supposed to be shooting.

So HQ did the math, on how much you were supposed to be shooting and then scheduled deliveries of ammo to keep the local armory stocked.

Except this (large) number based there, most didn't shoot anywhere near what was "planned". Or much at all, except right when it was time to qualify annually.

So, about every month or so there'd be 1000 rounds on the shelf that was supposed to not be there... And if they sent it BACK, well, paperwork was involved to explain WHY.

So they "disposed" of it by letting him shoot it/sign it out.

He, and a couple others shot near-daily, and he in 5 years had worn out 3 all-metal SiGs - but he and the couple others at that station were the exception.

The TSA exists to prevent airplanes getting blown up.

Patrick has the right answer.

Also, I can probably bribe a TSA screener to let me take my drugs on an aeroplane. And once I've done that, I can get anything or anyone on a flight. tick...tick...tick...tick

So it is time to do your civic duty as a patriot, get a mock bomb on a plane, and have the news cameras waiting at the other end.

Put up, or shut up.

"So it is time to do your civic duty as a patriot, get a mock bomb on a plane, and have the news cameras waiting at the other end.

Put up, or shut up."

If it would shut down the TSA forever, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

"So it is time to do your civic duty as a patriot, get a mock bomb on a plane, and have the news cameras waiting at the other end."

I'm too lazy to look for the source now; but, I believe that "weapons" have already been sent through by folks testing the system - only to find that the "weapons" went through without being detected. That made the news; quite a few times.

Nope, it didn't shut down the TSA.

"Put up, or shut up."
The TSA is an insult to me as an American. The ultimate violation of my rights in my country which has constitutional protections against such violations. The TSA is unjust and unconstitutional. I'd rather be free and vulnerable then a sparsely protected bird in a cage. FUCK YOU.

Already been done Jeff. If I recall correctly even the TSA says they have a >25% chance of catching a bomb or weapon. Others put that number much lower. Pure theater and cronyism.

Lot's of loudmouths, no action.

The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working.

"The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working."

It was working decades before TSA was created. TSA has added nothing, except for additional layers of bureacracy, regulation, and corruption. If someone wanted to conduct another 9/11 style attack (assuming it would work like it did last time, which it won't), it would be a simple matter to defeat TSA measures.

TSA's own testing has demonstrated how easy it is to get stuff through. Mostly it's social engineering. We're not talking the FBI here. We're talking minimum-wage, minimally competent, mimimally trained DMV employees.

(An aside: Airlines seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are losing lots of business owing to the amount of time flyers have to spend doing things other than flying. Within my lifetime, it was possible to get from where I live to New York in about three hours, from the time you got in line at the ticket counter at the departure airport until you picked up your checked bags at the destination. Now it's more like eight hours. Flying is uneconomical, both time- and money-wise, for any trip of less than about 800 miles. In the U.S., that includes a lot of routes.)

So, Jeff, you have to call names, because some of us on here can cite the TSA's own reported failures.

"The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working."

Magically. To the point that packed malls, football and baseball stadiums and the uprotected areas of the airport where passengers congregate have ALSO not been attacked.

"Damn. The airport is blocked by first-rate sentinels who never sleep. I will just have to put my bomb away and not use it," said no jihadist ever.

"The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working."

I often whistle through my nose to keep rampaging water buffalo away.

Works like a champ. I have seen ZERO rampaging water buffalo.

The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working.

By a definition of "working" that is apparently "Not succeeding at the goal."

Since 2001, there have been 14 events characterized as terrorism the TSA failed to prevent on airlines and that passengers dealt with.

Zero caught at the security turnstile.

The PR the TSA generates over minor drug things is quite excessive, do you think if they found a terrorist they'd be keeping it quiet?

Look at what they trumpet as success in "Keeping off of planes". Forbidden objects that were no real danger, but they get to point to as "proof" they "succeed".

Except at their stated purpose.

Cousin Dave:

Airlines seem to be oblivious to the fact that they are losing lots of business

No, they're not. They're just swamped with the fact that they can't do anything about it, and have enough other fires they're fighting.

They're far more worried about the coming pilot shortage than the TSA (since the TSA affects everybody, they mostly ignore it.)

"Lot's of loudmouths, no action.

The point of airport security is deterrence. It seems to be working."

Against a bunch of people who have no interest in committing terrorist acts maybe. Are you trying to incite us to commit terrorist acts against the U.S.? Be careful, that's probably a felony.

So I can conclude from all these comments that Islamofascist splodeydopes do not exist, and do not wish to blow up airliners?

So I can conclude from all these comments that Islamofascist splodeydopes do not exist, and do not wish to blow up airliners?

Conclude what you like Jeff. But even the TSA says they aren't what's stopping the dynamite shorts. I know the TSA lies regularly but I don't think that is something they would lie about.