Eh. You commit misdemeanor battery, there should be some consequences for it. In four years, this will bag her a criminal record.

We're all responsible for this. People get sued and fired these days for making decisions about how to handle an unruly kid (no matter what the decision is), so in the interest of "fairness" we've taken away their decision-making powers in favor of one-size-fits all policies. The teacher has no discretion. The school has no discretion. The only people who can stop this kind of crap are the parents.

When I was a kid, if I did something wrong in school and got punished, I'd also get punished at home. The message was very clear. You don't do that stuff. Now, parents will defend anything their kid does.

There's a talk radio guy in Atlanta, who had a story about how he saw some kid driving like a maniac, endangering himself and the people around him. There had recently been a few traffic deaths involving teenagers, so he followed the kid back to his house, went up, rang the doorbell, and told the kid's father what the kid had been doing.

The father went ballistic. Not at the kid - at the radio guy. How dare you follow my son, etc, etc. Threatened to sue the radio guy (who's also a lawyer, so he knew the father didn't have grounds to sue or anything).

My ex-wife was, for a time, an academic advisor at a university. She constantly had parents calling her to complain about the grades their kids got. Because, I guess, it's the professor's fault, not the kid's.

People these days think their kids can't do anything wrong, and if you imply they have done something wrong, you get sued. Or the parents make enough of a stink to get you fired. We've made the stakes so high that to use your own judgement is to risk your life and livelihood.

Considering juvenile records are usually scrubbed upon reaching majority, I really have no problem with a children being charged with misdemeanor battery, if that's what they did.

I think a huge reason we have bullying in school is that we don't treat bullies for what they are: criminals. Why are crimes like battery and harassment overlooked when the offender is a juvenile? Yes, kids lack judgment, but guess what? Giving consequences for their actions teaches them judgment!

Just an addendum:

...She is in a state where the Court of Appeals upheld a conviction for assault on a police officer for pointing a finger at a cop and saying "pow."

This one, I agree, is pretty stupid. This conviction is essentially punishing free speech.

But I support the carrot thing. The kid doesn't need to learn not to throw things at her teacher. She needs to learn that throwing things at anyone is dangerous. Would you still be okay with just a detention if the carrot had hit the teacher in the eye and injured her?

If I want to hear a Republican or Democrat address anything, it's the overcriminalization we now encourage throughout society.

> Yet, in schools, kids are being treated as if they're adults, with adult judgment and the adult consequences that ensue from bad behavior.

In the meantime in schools, adults are acting like children. Once again, I wonder with our glut of lawyers, where the public interest law firm that isn't suing schools for idiot zero tolerance policies is.

"I think a huge reason we have bullying in school is that we don't treat bullies for what they are: criminals. Why are crimes like battery and harassment overlooked when the offender is a juvenile? Yes, kids lack judgment, but guess what? Giving consequences for their actions teaches them judgment!"

The problem we run into is: For normal people, something like this can be a life-ruining event. On the other hand, for bullies, they don't care about legal consequences. They will happily sit in detention or jail, plotting how they are going to get their revenge whenever they are released. There's only one thing that bullies understand: when the victim hits back. But we've made that illegal, even for young children. Today, if you defend yourself against a bully, you are at least as guilty as the bully is, if not more.

People these days think their kids can't do anything wrong, and if you imply they have done something wrong, you get sued. Or the parents make enough of a stink to get you fired. We've made the stakes so high that to use your own judgement is to risk your life and livelihood.

Yep, yep, yep.

And I agree with Cousin Dave that the "no-fault" bully policy in many schools is a disaster. We'd never punish an adult who fought back against an assault, but that's precisely what many schools do against the victims of bullies.

I posted most of this in another thread, but it's appropriate here as well:

By not disciplining children early, we've set them on a collision course with society's control mechanism, the police.

We've criminalized social misbehavior. We've thrown up our hands at dealing with our own children and neighbors and decided to let the police handle it.

We're using the police to do social work. They're not equipped or trained for that. Policing is socially-sanctioned controlled violence.

People with psychological issues (even temporary ones) are not inclined to follow orders, sometimes not able to. As long as they don't represent a danger to themselves or others, there should be non-violent ways of dealing with it.

The police are like nuclear weapons. Their presence on our side keeps the other side from going too far, but once they're put into use, it means the smelly brown goo has hit the whirling cantilevered surface.

"The police are like nuclear weapons. "

Except nukes don't go off when they encounter a minor annoyance they're too immature or poorly-trained to handle.

Can't paddle 'em, 'cuz that's demeaning.

But we can call police and lock them up.

This is the natural order in a society that insists that "someone else!" handle any problem. And everything is a problem.

Except nukes don't go off when they encounter a minor annoyance they're too immature or poorly-trained to handle. ~ Posted by: Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers atOctober 30, 2015 11:47 AM

Nor do most police officers "go off."

"Except nukes don't go off when they encounter a minor annoyance they're too immature or poorly-trained to handle."

Umm. Yes they do Gog. When nukes encounter anything that sets them off they go boom.

But at that age, a child needs to be handled in a manner that makes some logical sense.

Therein lies the problem.

A generation or two ago, Aliya NIgro's behavior would have been the whole iceberg.

Now it is merely the tip.

And we probably got from there to here by not responding with the severity that sort of thing really deserved.

My friend's daughter is in middle school. She has been bullied for two years now by the same girl. Despite multiple meetings and conferences with teachers and administrators nothing has been done and the bullying has escalated. Finally reaching the breaking point, my friend told her daughter that it was okay for her to defend herself, that she didn't need to keep being a victim for fear of punishment. The bully came after her again a few days ago, shoving her around, hitting her, and trying to take her backpack. Well, she fought back and took her down, and the bully's friend that stepped in to help. They are still sorting out the mess, but so far it appears the bully is not likely to be in any trouble but my friend's daughter is.......for defending herself against an assault. Lawyers and police are involved and all three are on an indefinite suspension pending a police investigation. The girls are 14 years old.

I have another acquaintance whose son was given a three week suspension from high school for mooning someone.......from his own yard at home, on a weekend, not at all during school hours. Apparently a neighbor saw it and called the school to complain. WTF happened to complaining to the parents? It didn't happen on school property let alone during school hours so I fail to see why the school should have had any involvement at all, even if they did get a call.

Public schools are staffed by brainless idiots writing idiotic rules so no one has to think. They are probably also those on a power trip and enjoy bullying others.

Bunnygirl: "WTF happened to complaining to the parents?"

Sorry, I wouldn't even try to talk to the parents, unless I knew them very well, for I don't know how they would react. They might very well blame me for something that their kid did.

I could just see some kid mooning an adult, the adult complains to the parents; and then, wham! that adult is now a suspect in a peeping tom case.

Kevin: "We'd never punish an adult who fought back against an assault, but that's precisely what many schools do against the victims of bullies."

I think there are a lot of school administrators and teachers who can't discern the moral difference between aggressive, violent bullying and self defense. They literally aren't able to tell right from wrong.

Kevin: "We'd never punish an adult who fought back against an assault, but that's precisely what many schools do against the victims of bullies."

I think there are a lot of school administrators and teachers who can't discern the moral difference between aggressive, violent bullying and self defense. They literally aren't able to tell right from wrong.

Posted by: Ken R at October 30, 2015 10:25 PM

It took me years to figure out that half or more of the human race is actually this stupid.

Depressing isn't it?

And our educational system has been designed to insure, that these sheep get their credentials so they can go on to indoctrinate another generation of idiots.

Look at the gender studies professor and her Obama placemats, who apparently doesn't even know that Obama can not single handedly ban guns.

It is simpler than that Ken. When the bully was acting out they didn't have a problem, the bully's victims did. Once the bully is stopped then they have a problem that they have to solve. Easy solution, if there are no victims willing to stand up for themselves then the administration has no problem.

The bureaucracy works to protect itself, period.

"When nukes encounter anything that sets them off they go boom."

So Ben believes cops are allowed to be set off by anything they feel is bothering them.

Good to know, Ben. We'll put you on the "Government agents uber alles" list. Perhaps Obama can give you a "Faithful and Compliant Citizen" award or something.

Nice try at misinterpretation Gog. I believe that once a nuke is triggered it goes boom. That is what all bombs do. I will admit you are sometimes right. Bombs don't always go off when triggered. Those are called duds.

I'm not sure what you were talking about when you brought up training. Even our 'smart bombs' aren't that smart.

Wait, grammar school kids get police instead of school discipline for their misbehavior but university students are not allowed to take rape accusations to the police?