Perhaps the central problem is that western elites are transnational, with an interlocking web of financial and social interests above and detached from the interests of their respective countries.

These elites are, to their very core, amoral and self-serving. Consider that George Bush allowed Iran to slaughter, via proxies, and with impunity, thousands of our troops in Iraq. Their blood is on his hands.

There is no crime the elites of the ruling class will not countenance or facilitate, and the notion they will investigate or penalize their own is laughable. When they appear to do the right thing, it is only because they judge this more expedient and gainful than the alternatives.

The piece makes the point that we are no longer as dependent on the Saudi oil as we used to be. How about we start getting honest on their role in 9/11?

What do you propose we do about it? Drop a nuke on Mecca? Tempting as it might be, it would instigate every Muslim nation in the world, whether involved in 9/11 or not, to declare war on the U.S.

I agree w/Patrick about the use of force, however we could have and should have closed off all banking transfers and used the 'net (which we controlled at that time) to isolate that sandpit.

Our 'Cold War' w/the Russians was successful and this one could have been as well. Isolation is a tool that was not used. Why?

I doubt if oil has anything to do with it. Our elites are too cozy or too scared about something. There is a conspiracy that only a few control the world. It makes you wonder doesn't it.

As soon as it hits the fan the "red" phone rings and the truth is known. Any other rational explanation? Are they "too big to fail"?

"There is a conspiracy that only a few control the world. It makes you wonder doesn't it."

It certainly does. Just can't get a grasp on our government's relationship with the Saudis.

I've wondered if there's a "keep your enemies closer" component with Saudi Arabia, or perhaps things have been done courtesy of the CIA.

One aspect you are missing Bob is money. As in the green cloth thing, not the general concept. The US has long been an exporter of US dollars. Since our dollar is a reserve currency we are able to 'print' vast numbers of them and then export them to various nations. Once there they go into vaults and are effectively taken out of circulation. Hence the US government gets the benefits of inflation without most of the negatives.

If OPEC stopped preferring dollars as payment it could cause the US dollar to lose reserve status leading to hyper inflation here as all those dollars around the world come back home. The joke is that the Obama administration has abused this stealth inflation so much that the EU and Japan are already talking about our money losing reserve status.

Like a lot of things there is a long term problem being ignored due to the short term pain of fixing it. And with Saudi Arabia there are a whole host of issues like that.

No,I think oil is the explanation, or at least most of it. Imagine if OPEC had cut off exports to the U.S. By 2001, our oil import rate had doubled from 1985. An oil cutoff would have made the 1970s "energy crisis" look like a garden party. Bush would not have stood a chance of re-election in 2004. Plus, Europe would not have supported a war against Saudi Arabia and might have even intervened on the Saudis' side.

Which loops back to: why attack Iraq? Let's review. There were some pretty good reasons; it wasn't Bush being a warmonger -- he wasn't that type. There were some realpolitik considerations. We couldn't afford to not perform some kind of military response; it would have made us look pathetic on the world stage. We thought we could attack Iraq without arousing the Saudis too much, since they regarded Hussein as unstable and dangerous. And don't forget that Hussein had repeatedly violated UN sanctions enacted in the compromise that ended the Gulf War. Neocons had Bush's ear; they told him that Iraq was ripe for seeding Western democracy, since it had a relatively educated populace compared to most Middle East nations, and it would have a source of income as soon as the well pumps could be turned back on. Plus, in the long term, an oil-producing Iraq friendly to the West would serve as a counter to Saudi Arabia's influence.

Obviously, they underestimated both the nature of the problem, and the extent to which the Saudis were willing to go in order to prevent Westernism from taking hold. Parts of the Saudi royal family provided most of the funding for the insurgency, using Iran as their handmaidens. And the degree to which Islam is factional, and the factional hatreds, were also underestimated. Then Obama came along, and with no understanding of the situation whatsoever, used it as a cheap campaign talking point, and the resulting irresponsible leadership put the stake in it.

So what can we do now? I tend to agree that Saudi Arabia is still an untouchable as far as going to war against them. Europe won't support it (not that that matters much); Russia will covertly back the Saudis (which does matter), and it would serve to at least temporarily unite the Middle East against us, with the possibility of Israel being held nuclear hostage. Here's what we can do: for the first time since the 1960s, energy independence is within our grasp. We need to grab it with both hands and hold in for dear life. Frack baby frack. Build new-technology nuclear plants, and use some combination of that and coal for baseline power generation. Natural gas can serve for peaking plants, and solar will probably contribute a bit. Let's become a net oil exporter. Start making the Middle East oil-producing nations play the game of our choosing. When it hits them in the pocketbook, they might start to change their tune. (And they'll have a lot less money for funding terrorism and insurgencies.) Once that happens, a lot more options become available.

If OPEC stopped preferring dollars as payment it could cause the US dollar to lose reserve status leading to hyper inflation here as all those dollars around the world come back home.

Heh. It's a double trap.

What are they going to replace it with? Euros? Yen? Yuan? oh, and then when the value of the dollar tanks, they'll take it in the shorts because that's what is sitting in their vaults in the hundreds of millions of US dollars.

Yes, our currency isn't worth squat. It's still better than everyone else's.

This is veering off into chemtrail country. Why would the Saudis allow an attack their best oil customer and main arms supplier? I suppose if you go with the barbarian factional Muslims theory it's possible. I don't see it as any sort of elite thinking.

Lastango wrote:

Perhaps the central problem is that western elites are transnational, with an interlocking web of financial and social interests above and detached from the interests of their respective countries.

Exactly. Anyone remember this from 2006?

Brushing aside objections from Republicans and Democrats alike, President Bush endorsed the takeover of shipping operations at six major U.S. seaports by a state-owned business in the United Arab Emirates. He pledged to veto any bill Congress might approve to block the agreement.

The president on Tuesday defended his administration’s earlier approval of the sale of London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co. to Dubai Ports World, despite concerns in Congress it could increase the possibility of terrorism at American ports.

The pending sale — expected to be finalized in early March — puts Dubai Ports in charge of major shipping operations in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Miami and Philadelphia. “If there was any chance that this transaction would jeopardize the security of the United States, it would not go forward,” Bush said.

"Why would the Saudis allow an attack their best oil customer and main arms supplier? "

I think the answer to that is that the Saudi royal family isn't monolithic. There's parts of it that are relatively well inclined towards the West, and then there are parts of it that want to see the U.S. destroyed and damn the consequences. It's pretty widely acknowledged that Wahabbism would not be a thing if it wasn't for decades of Saudi funding and support. The House of Saud is in a state of constant intrigue. They aren't always a rational actor.

Saudi Arabia is full of contradictions. The royal family are not Wahabists. But they heavily financially support the Wahabists. Since the House of Saud took over the area they've used the money they get from exports to pay off their enemies. And that includes both foreign and domestic. They pay the Wahabists to go kill westerners. They try to pay Iran to both other nations. Bribery is a huge part of Saudi diplomacy. Recently this appears to have changed due to ISIS. But back in 2001 appeasement was still at the heart of Saudi policy. They paid for the 9/11 attacks so they didn't happen to the Saudi royal family. They don't really care who else is targeted as long as they aren't.

As for the US whitewash of Saudi involvement, there are many reasons. Oil is a very real reason. But inflation concerns were real. There is also the issue of military access. If you don't have any bases in the area it is hard to react militarily and the middle east is a very unstable area. As others point out there are diplomatic concerns as well.

In the end the cover up was expedient. I won't call it moral or correct but it served short term goals. It also wasn't much of a cover up. Anyone who cared to know knew the Saudis were chin deep in that mess.

Now for some real conspiracy theory fodder, what if it was the Russians who killed JFK? And on top of that US officials were well aware of it. How would the government have reacted? If it became public then the US would have gone to nuclear war. Did US officials decide that sweeping that under the rug was the best solution? After all, they and their families live in DC, one of the first places to get nuked if the missiles started flying.

I'm for the mafia/CIA contract job Ben.

JFK went off the reservation making private deals w/Russia and was screwing everyone else.

Think people got scared and let the chips fall where they may.