The State has a very good reason to be interested in this---and the pediatrician did a very good job of flagging the twins.

There is a very narrow window in which therapy has been shown to be effective for treating autism---that window is at that stage the twins where flagged. Meaning we can "reverse" (I hate to use the word because it does not convey the correct meaning) some of the more damaging autism deficits. My impression of State sponsored therapy is that is very good and effective during that particular window. Outside of that well---we don't really know how to manage autism. It is a nice sentiment for the parents to express that despite interventions "God" would make everything a.o.k but that's not the reality according to the statistics.

As to the reason why the State is very interested in this there is the autism epidemic--meaning there are adults out there who could have been helped but weren't and now are saddling the government with costs the government can't bare. This is a preventive measure and a very good one. One I fully support. Also I'm surprised with the Pervasive Developmental diagnosis they still got therapy--as that label is usually used to refuse therapy to parents.

"If they don't send people over to tell you that your children need all kinds of therapy, how ever will those people feed their own children and keep paying the mortgage?"

You'll find that the majority of these people don't make very good money---and do it more as a passion. In fact my impression is that it is a service the government is making more and more difficult to get.

I have found the parents that complain about it tend to be upper middle class--and it comes more from a place at being offended that their kid isn't perfect---and less about not wasting the taxpayers money.

I have found the parents that complain about it tend to be upper middle class--and it comes more from a place at being offended that their kid isn't perfect---and less about not wasting the taxpayers money.

Ppen at October 6, 2016 11:51 PM

Are there any double blind studies you can link to, that proves that this "window of intervention" as you call it, even exists?

I have seen a number of small children display some signs of an autism spectrum disorder.

Most grew out of it without any therapy. The ones that didnt, all the therapy in the world, didnt seem to help much.

I find it interesting that you characterize psychiatrists (correctly I believe) as mostly trial and error mud slingers, through your personal experience, but seem to have bought into the "early intervention" for autism, without question.

You're mistaken that I consider psychiatrists trial and error "mud slingers".

I do think what they do is trial and error, because they don't have a choice, and are constrained by time and urgency. And in my case, unlike schizophrenia and depression there is no mediocre neurobiological theory that can help develop meds. So bipolars are stuck borrowing medication from schizophrenics and epileptics. And skipping those designed for major depressives (because they make us worse) and so we are stuck in a very difficult position of not really having anything but Lithium yet having the highest suicide rate out of everyone. So you see when I walk into a psychiatrist office I am not happy at what is about to happen. They're essentially telling me they're going to use leeches to suck the joojoo outta me because the 1 medication proven to actually work on a cellular level and over the course of 50 years of research happened to poison me violently.

But excellent and kind psychiatrists and therapists have changed the course of my life into a positive direction--in ways that I am incredibly grateful for and ways I hope more people experience.

As to ABA I have not accepted it "blindly". It's just neurodevelopmental disorders for children just have a bigger strides in treatment than psychiatric ones. ADHD being a shining example of this......on top of all that it is heavily encouraged within the autism community by autistics themselves.

My daughter regressed from 5 words to 2 between 12 and 18 months. She also completely stopped mimicking.

I had her evaluated. Because of the regression they did want to rule out autism which they did.

They do seem to add OT for all cases. We said she didn't need it.

We think the regression was caused by a her witnessing me in a rollerblade accident. She would also cry if I was lying on the floor and try to pull me up.

It was frustrating for her and us when we can't figure out what she wants. At the playground, other kids would look at me to tell them what she said (as if I knew).

While she may have caught up eventually on her own we saved a lot of frustration with therapy.

I don't doubt over-diagnosis is a problem but that doesn't mean it is never warranted.

To Ppen's it was probably easier (and less expensive) to deal with now rather than when she gets to kindergarten and requires extra help then.

I keep hearing about this "autism epidemic", but I have yet to see any evidence that it exists. (Most of the "evidence" seems to consist of the say-so of anti-vaxxers, who blame it on a preservative that the vaccine manufacturers quit using decades ago.) Schools get tons of federal money for special-ed programs, and so they are highly incentivized to find more and more students with disorders that require special-ed programs. Autism is an easy one because there is no objective test for it; the symptoms are not even clearly defined. Kids that are task-focused, or just introverted, are getting tagged as autistic. I have no doubt that, given the criteria they use now, if they had been doing that in 1965, I would have been diagnosed as autistic. But I'm not and I never have been. Fortunately for me, people had more sense in 1965.

Autism is a spectrum Cousin Dave. It can range from normal to in need of complete institutionalization.

The reason we lump all these groups together is because there is a neurobiological link we don't understand but know exists. But many scientists don't believe autism is "bad" just a different way of thinking. They acknowledge the increased rates are probably due to a wider net of diagnostic criteria and awareness. However some believe that doesn't fully explain the problem.

A lot of the 'autism epidemic' is called having a penis.

My wife was diagnosed with ADHD, bipolar, and psychotic among others over the years. The true diagnosis . . . tomboy. A rather untreatable condition but also no an issue.

Why'd she go get evaluated in the first place Ben?

It's really easy for a doc to confuse ADHD and bipolar and to get either diagnosis.

However it's not so easy to get a psychotic label unless there is something wrong.

ADHD is definitely overdiagnosed in boys. Drug them until they behave more like girls.

I'm on the autism spectrum with ADHD. The thing is, the pediatrician was right to err on the side of evaluation, but the swinging the girl thing, for example, was just ridiculous.

Yes. ADHD is over diagnosed in boys but ADHD is under-diagnosed in girls.

"but the swinging the girl thing, for example, was just ridiculous."

Agreed.

Meaning we can "reverse" (I hate to use the word because it does not convey the correct meaning) some of the more damaging autism deficits.

The term you want is "retard" pity proto-SJWs all but had it banned

I have symptoms which could be classified as ASD, whether that's due to actually having an ASD, or empathetic burnout from a childhood of abuse, or the mild brain damage I sustained nearly freezing to death at age 15 fucking with my hormones who could say? Probably some hideously complex synergy between the three

There does seem to be an increase in autism, perhaps due to older parents. There is also an increase in panicking about slow development and kids that are just a little strange (aren't we all?).
Between age 3 and 4 my brother would mumble stuff that only I could understand. I would translate for him. My parents could not understand how I could figure it out. He ended up very smart, somewhat Augsberger's syndrome, Masters in computer science (almost too stereotypical, eh?). No therapy.

Ppen,

My wife is a tomboy. So in school she exhibited many commonly male characteristics, most significantly trouble sitting still and a desire for intense physical activity. The schools were in the height of their call all boys ADHD movement and she got swept up in that. Since Adderall doesn't work on tomboyism the doctors the school recommended kept upping her dose. In the end she had an addiction to amphetamine. Excessive use of amphetamine leads to amphetamine induced psychosis. That was misdiagnosed several times as bipolar among other things.

Today she is completely unmedicated and roughly as crazy as most people.

It doesn't mean anything. Kids were talk and walk when they're ready. My nephew Adam was very late in both talking and walking. He didn't start walking until he was two and spoke mostly in unintelligible grunts. And until he started to walk, he never crawled, preferring to scoot on his butt along the floor.

You wouldn't know it to see him today. I'd match his intelligence against almost anyone's. He's happy, bright, successful and his wife is expecting their first baby.

In fact, I'm consulting him for financial advice.

I had plenty of people tell me similar stories about late talkers and walkers.

I also have plenty of people tell me how their kids turned out fine without vaccines.

I am neither educated in childhood development, speech pathology, nor immunology.

Therefore, I get advice from my child's pediatrician who I know to be more educated in these subjects than I am.

"I also have plenty of people tell me how their kids turned out fine without vaccines."

Vaccines have nothing to do with how your child *turns out*. They dont make them smarter or healtheir. They are useful, like an insurance policy, if your child is unfortunate enough to encounter a killer strain of a diease that they can be vaccinated for.

They may still get the diease, but in a milder form than they would have without the vaccine.

For the most part vaccines are a public healt interest. They protect the ill and those who are immune system compromised from raging epidemics.

Agree w/Isab, vaccines are like a pre-nuptial agreements. When you need one it's already hit the fan.

My son greatly benefited for his ADHD meds. It was easy to tell when it wore off and time for the next dose. Scoff but if it gets you through the day w/o long-term side effects ...

You also need to exert your parental knowledge of your kid. We fought the schools on a lot of their "expert" advice. Schools might be more aggressive w/social services now so I"m not sure how things go now.

Just go in prepared to do battle IF their advice sounds off. A lot depends on the personalities that are involved so use your pediatrician as a buffer.

My point was anecdotes are not evidence.

My daughter is fully vaccinated according to her pediatrician's schedule.

Stories of kids that were late talkers that turned out fine without any intervention have nothing to do with the fact that not understanding my daughter was frustrating for her and everyone else in the present.

"My point was anecdotes are not evidence."

My point was that you made your point very poorly, with a poor analogy that was not relevant.

I was the one asking for any double blind studies for early intervention into autistic behaviors being of benefit, remember?

When the taxpayers are funding something, evidence of ineffectiveness tends to get shoved under the rug. This applies to pharmaceuticals, diet, education, and well, pretty much everything.

Hmm. About ADD: years ago, Gardendale Elementary on Merritt Island, FL had a class that shocked my wife when she stepped in one day - over half the class was filing to the front to get Ritalin. She smelled a rat, and uncovered a clinic that was paid by the distributor to put more kids on it.
The topper was that once she put an ordinary coffeepot in class, the ritual and caffeine let everybody come off medication.

About autism: Sorry, Mom. Your build code contained an error.

"I also have plenty of people tell me how their kids turned out fine without vaccines."

Consider this: anesthetists use several horrendously complex and often perishable compounds to bring and hold you within Thanatos' grasp - yet no one wakes up with autism.

You can be groggy for a while after your tuneup, but not autistic.

"My point was that you made your point very poorly, with a poor analogy that was not relevant."

Fine. I did acknowledge my lack of education in immunology and childhood development.

In both instances I acted according to my pediatrician's recommendation.

"I was the one asking for any double blind studies for early intervention into autistic behaviors being of benefit, remember?"

I didn't make that claim.

Back to my lack of education in immunology and childhood development.

I'm sure someone can explain like I am 5 how to determine which of my pediatrician's recommendations I should listen to and which I can safely ignore.