Trump. Definitely Trump. He may be a fruitcake, but at least he's not a felon.

Hillary belongs in prison. If she is elected, the voters are opening the door for blatant corruption - no need to hide it in the back room any longer.

Hillary for Prison, 2016!

Since California is a safe state for Clinton, (HuffPo and RCP say H wins in CA by 22+%!!!) why not toss your vote where it can do some good? A vote for Johnson will result in Johnson not winning, but can bring the Libertarian Party up to 5% which reason says is important for them, for um, non libertarian reasons...

http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/11/if-johnson-gets-5-percent-of-the-vote-wo

> If Gary Johnson and Bill Weld receive at least five percent of the popular vote, they'll be officially classified as a "minor party" by the Federal Election Commission (FEC). If that happens, the Libertarian Party's candidate in 2020 would qualify for public matching funds based on how much of the vote they receive.

Anyway, it would help future Libertarian candidates, but I think it would help ALL 3rd parties and actively work to harm the Democratic Party as well as the GOP by making a real 3rd Party that much more a possibility.

This election is the worst. The best thing to do is make sure Hillary can not claim a mandate, and do whatever is can to split or otherwise screwup the GOP and Democratic Party.

If Clinton wins with a mandate it will be same old same old and all will be forgotten.

If you think Libertarians, or Greens should get a chance, if you think Instant Runoff Voting should get a chance, if you want any sort of dialogue about real electoral reform, then I think the best outcome comes with Hillary getting 270 votes and winning the popular vote by 1.

Anyway, California is safe, your vote has a greater chance of making a difference if you vote for someone other than Hillary.

"If Clinton wins with a mandate it will be same old same old and all will be forgotten."

A madnate, like the rule of law or the Constitution doesn't matter when democrats win even if it is by one electoral vote.

It is just a stick to beat Republicans with.

If she wins, the dems will claim a mandate regardless.

Im surprised watching Obama after the 2014 midterms, that you dont seem to have figured that part out yet.

Progressiveism is a one way ratchet, and most of the gains will be through lawfare.

You dont lose your money and your freedom all in one bite. It is a slow turn of the screw. We may have already reached the tipping point,

The moment the Justice department decided to exonerate and protect a woman who sent classifed info to her Phillipina maid, her daughter and God knows who else, you should have known the fix was in.

NO, to Hillary for me.

Eight years has been long enough for this Obamanation - Clinton will be nothing but a continuing downward spiral.

How many thugs has Trump sent after Hillary supporters compared to Hillary's camp sending thugs after Trump supporters? And, the news media doesn't do anything but blame Trump for violence at his rallies.

With Trump, he most likely won't get much done with the Press out "to get him" and both parties not liking him. Hillary on the other hand will get a lot done with the political "elites" supporting her and the Press praising her - and none of what she will do will be good for the average American.

The IRS going after political opponents will look like child's play compared to what Hillary and her crooks will do to the American people.

The list of why not to vote for someone is longer for Hillary than it is for Trump.

So, I could go on and on why not to vote for Hillary; but, the bottom line issue for me is Benghazi - Hillary lied to the American public, she lied to congress, and she lied to the families of those murdered men. And, she continues to lie about everything.

So, NO to Hillary.

How you, Amy, can call Trump a "child" but not Hillary is something I do not understand. Trump is simply playing the nasty campaign game that McCain and Romney did not play and lost. Trump has clearly learned from their mistakes and giving the Democrats what they have given the Republicans. And it is clearly helping him win votes.

I do not fear a Trump victory; but, I do fear a Hillary victory. Just what will she do to her opponents with all that presidential power? What will she to the Supreme Court? What will she do to our economy? And, lastly, what will she do to the American people if she doesn't get her way?

Lastly, the one thing we do not need is a sex offender running around the White House with nothing to do but diddle the interns.

NO to Hillary!

And so, you may keep your health care provider, since you like him.

"Just what will she do to her opponents with all that presidential power? What will she to the Supreme Court? What will she do to our economy? And, lastly, what will she do to the American people if she doesn't get her way?"

Actually, you don't even have to wonder about these things... you just have to to notice that people ignore what Hillary has actually done as opposed to what Donald Trump might do. It's because they like the smell of the feet they're used to kissing.

What policies produced this paradise, again?

I've already voted Trump. That's not something I ever thought I'd be saying, but here we are.

The choice before us is between two seventy year olds with one hundred year old sclerotic ideas. Neither is fit, or capable for the office of POTUS in my opinion. Whoever "wins" the country loses.

My vote for Trump is plain and simple a protest vote against the two major political parties. They have become so out of touch with the people they claim to "serve" that Donald Trump was my best option. Unreal.

I'm not going to comment on anyone's decisions on who to vote for, or how they came to that decision.

I just thank my stars that I live in a state where the outcome is pretty-much a foregone conclusion, and so I have no compelling reason to vote for either of these manifestly-disgusting and grossly-inappropriate people for President. The Brazen Crook vs The Incompetent Buffoon. Sorry, but that is no choice at all.

The one bit of good I can do is vote thoughtfully down-ticket - since it is pretty-much assured that Clinton will win the Presidency, our best hope is to solidify the Republican hold on the Congress to the point where neither side can get much done. It won't make our lives any better, but at least they won't be able f*ck up our lives very much worse - from either side.

That we've come to this. The only good thing to come out of this election will be the increased numbers of people who have seen how gloriously, hopelessly incompetent both parties are, and who ask themselves - Hmm? Maybe there's another way we can go, where the government exists to support and protect us, instead of stealing from us and ruining our lives? What could is possibly be, I wonder?

llater,

llamas

I agree with Jerry to vote third party in California.

I also agree with the Never Hillary crowd, but at the same time am befuddled by the Never Trumpers who insist the House and Senate would act as a check on Hillary. The same way they've acted as a check for the last 8 years? Sorry, history proves that the establishment Republicans roll over like a female dog in heat at the first sign of pressure.

But you have your vote, I have mine, use it as you see fit. To me the Supreme Court is the overriding issue; it needs more in the mold of Justice Thomans.

You are voting the Democratic party line. That's it in a nutshell. You are more happy w/what they have done than with what they have not done or have done badly.

It's not about personalty. It's about extending and increasing what you desire for the country.

If she is elected, the voters are opening the door for blatant corruption - no need to hide it in the back room any longer.

And you can forget about that whole rule of law.

If you get prosecuted for a crime will depend on who you know, who your friends are, and more importantly, if you're a member of the party in good standing.

Some of our betters will be busy plundering and looting, others will be oppressing us for our own good. Stupid hicks, too ignorant to be able to live your lives without our help.

for equal rights for all people and judgment based on merit

Oh, and forget about that, too. Your rights, such as they are, will be due to your affiliation with a particular tribe.

since it is pretty-much assured that Clinton will win the Presidency, our best hope is to solidify the Republican hold on the Congress to the point where neither side can get much done. It won't make our lives any better, but at least they won't be able f*ck up our lives very much worse - from either side.

This!! Even if Trump wins, establishment Republicans in Congress are likely to work with Democrats to stymie him. Whereas if Hillary ever gets a Democrat majority. . . I don't think anyone here needs my help to do that math.

I'm obviously doing this "adult" thing wrong.

Nobody trusts Hillary Clinton. Neither Republicans nor Democrats trust her. Her oldest friends and her closest allies don't trust her. And she has consistently earned that distrust by lying, changing her story, bending the rules, hiding her work, and stonewalling.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-president-we-simply-cannot-trust/article/2606453

Oh, and meanwhile her maid had access to those classified emails:

How cavalier was the woman who wants to be President of the United States? Meet Marina Santos, Clinton’s maid who was routinely directed to print out her emails so the former Secretary of State could read them via hard copy rather than via electronic device.

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/11/07/cant-read-classified-emails-hillarys-maid/

Brazen corruption vs. bombastic populism.

Actually both candidates are running, or attempting to run, populist campaigns, appealing to emotions rather than intellect. Hillary resorts with her commercials to "think of the children" emotional tugs; as well as "in your heart, you know he might" fear of all out war. Trump, on the other hand, appeals, to fear of terrorists and crime.

Living in a swing state, now, I get to see both of their campaign commercials nearly 24/7 and they make me long for the heady intellect of a Lyndon Larouche.

Neither presidential candidate understands the policies being advocated by their own campaigns. Neither has a strong enough grasp of economics and foreign policy to understand what they're saying in their canned stump speeches. We saw that in the debates, where she relied on Party talking points and he on fear-mongering when called upon to speak extemporaneously. Her attack is "he's a lunatic" and his attack is "she's a crook." Both are right, but at the same time, oh so wrong.

Our union-controlled education system has dumbed the population down enough that "neener neener" is an effective campaign speech for the most important single office in the entire country.

If you think Libertarians, or Greens should get a chance, if you think Instant Runoff Voting should get a chance, if you want any sort of dialogue about real electoral reform, then I think the best outcome comes with Hillary getting 270 votes and winning the popular vote by 1.

I agree Libertarians, Greens and other third parties should get a chance. The best way to do that is for them to run backable candidates at the city, county, township, parish level and let them grow.

Trump. Definitely Trump. He may be a fruitcake, but at least he's not a felon.

Neither candidate is a felon.

IRADA wrote:

"Oh, and meanwhile her maid had access to those classified emails:

How cavalier was the woman who wants to be President of the United States? Meet Marina Santos, Clinton’s maid who was routinely directed to print out her emails so the former Secretary of State could read them via hard copy rather than via electronic device."

That's only the beginning.

I listened to the NPR show 'This American Life' this last weekend. They had a segment by a reporter who actually read through all of the FBI reports and the associated content surrounding the 'private e-mail server' story, and it made for listening which switched between appalling and hilarious in about equal measure.

Even allowing for the patent pro-Democrat bias in the reporting, the tale it tells about this scandal beggars belief. I was cutting down a tree at the time, and I actually had to stop my saw and sit down on a stump, so as not to miss any of it. It was beyond parody. You could not make it up.

If true, the incompetence and stupidity of what was done, by everyone from Secretary Clinton on down, is just unfathomable. You should find the podcast of the story (it's free on Pandora) and listen to it yourself. It actually makes the case that this story is not so much about sinister evil plots, but more-likely about equal parts of staggering arrogance and raw stupidity.

I won't spoil it for you too much, but I'll salt the mine with just a few highlights.

- Secretary Clinton was so attached to a specific model of obsolete Blackberry that aides were buying her used ones off E-bay, to replace the ones that she regularly broke. A more perfect route for the direction of malware would be hard to conceive of.

- aides were so incapable of handling e-mails that complete laptops containing 100s of 1,000's of e-mails, as well as anything else they happened to contain, were FedExed around the country - completely unsecured - for IT 'experts' to work on them.

- E-mails were routinely transferred from machine to machine on thumb drives - the single best vector for malicious access to secure systems known to man.

- Secretary Clinton does not know, even to this day, how to use a laptop or desktop computer.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I recommend that you find and listen to the report.

llater,

llamas

Kevin: "Neither candidate is a felon."

From Dictionary.com:

Simple definition of felon: a criminal who has committed a serious crime (called a felony)

Legal definition of felon: one who has committed a felony

In the immortal words of Douglas Adams “Don’t panic.” I know that this election is between the saint and the monster but don’t panic. Yes, this election is “almost, but not quite, entirely unlike” the last 42 straight most important elections of your lifetime. Don’t panic, take a deep breath and consider the phrase “Checks and balances.”

A year from now you are either going to be praising the obstructionist congress for stopping the monster from destroying our country or swearing at the obstructionist congress for stopping the saint from saving our county. Our system of checks and balances stopped Bush/Obama from saving/destroying the country no matter good/evil he was. When they left and thanked us for the fish, the country was basically the same.

Obstructionism is a feature of our constitution not a bug. It stops the monsters and prevents the saints from becoming all powerful monsters. Thanks to our constitution, the monster will be “Mostly harmless.” Just remember where your towel is and “don’t panic.”

I agree with Jerry about voting for the Libertarian candidate (though I don't agree that Clinton is a lesser evil than Trump)

There are enough people in California who adore Clinton that she will win. Your vote, and 500,000 more like you won't be enough to make her win or lose. She's going to get all of California's electoral votes, even without you, and Trump will get none.

Unless you think there's a chance Trump could win in California, voting for him won't increase his chance of becoming president, and voting for someone else won't decrease his chances. Whether he gets 49% of the votes or 35% of the votes, the outcome will be the same. Unless he gets more votes than Clinton he won't get any of California's electoral votes.

So in this election, as in the last six, there is no logical reason for a libertarian in California to not vote for the libertarian candidate. He won't win, but he might get enough votes to let the political establishment know that there are enough libertarian voters out there to be worth trying to appeal to them, or at least not piss them off.

Conan wrote:

Our union-controlled education system has dumbed the population down enough that "neener neener" is an effective campaign speech for the most important single office in the entire country.

Conan, we are in agreement as to the dunce-itude of 2016 America, though I suspect we would disagree as to the cause. I'd pin it on 1) parents who don't give a shit about their children's education as long as it's free and keeps the little buggers out of the house all day; and 2) adults who don't care enough to educate themselves.

Our system of checks and balances stopped Obama

Where?

Should I point you towards King Putt's pen and phone? that his majesty hisself unilaterally and without authority made major revisions to the Affordable Care Act, pushing back hard deadlines to more favorable election years? the man who got us embroiled in Libya and reinserted troops back into Iraq all without an authorization from Congress?

A republic, if you can keep it, indeed.

adults who don't care enough to educate themselves

They do care. The problem is that they don't know what they don't know. No one taught them how to examine their own biases, and to keep an open mind and allow the facts to take you were they take you.

They do care. The problem is that they don't know what they don't know. No one taught them how to examine their own biases, and to keep an open mind and allow the facts to take you were they take you.

Well, I'd argue that's where personal responsibility comes in.

Libertarian Party huh?

You mean the Party whose own VP pick is subtly hinting that you should vote for Hilary? And then being pretty blatant about it on Rachel Maddow?

The Party that went on Reddit, did an AMA and began calling people assholes and dicks when they asked them exactly what their plan to actually getting elected on the ground level was?

Lmao sure I'll vote for them.

"It will be politics as usual... if she is elected....things will remain pretty much as good or as shitty as they are right now."

Well no, probably not. Just like they didn't remain pretty much as good or shitty as they were 8 or 16 or 24 years ago. They've gotten progressively more shitty, and if Clinton wins they will get shittier faster than if Trump wins. Government will be bigger and cost more. More things will be mandated and more prohibited.

I think Trump is more likely to think freedom of speech means I'm free to say pretty much whatever I want to say. I think Clinton is more likely to think freedom of speech means I'm free to say whatever the government decides isn't hurtful or offensive. I think she would be inclined to implement the progressive speech codes now enjoyed by college students across the country to the media and the rest of society.

I think Trump is more likely to think the right of the people to keep and bear arms is an individual right and means law abiding individuals can own a firearm and keep in their possession. I think Clinton is more likely to think the right of the people to keep and bear arms is a collective right and means that all firearms should be owned, controlled and used only by the government on behalf of the people.

I think that Trump is more likely to believe that freedom of religion means that individuals are free to choose whatever religion they want and practice it in whatever way they choose. I think Clinton is more likely to believe that freedom of religion means that the people are free to choose whatever religion the government deems to be valid and practice it in the manner approved by the government.

I think Clinton believes that political, economic and social advantages, disadvantages and privileges should based on a hierarchy of victimhood, race, sex, gender identity, political and social values, $contributions and other special status, and imposed by force. I think Trump cares less about racism, sexism, victimhood, identity or whatever.

I think Trump would like to set up a more effective method of screening immigrants and controlling immigration. I think Clinton would like to bring to the U.S. all the benefits of Islam currently being enjoyed by the people, especially the women and girls, of Western Europe, along with as many laborers and dependents on government aid programs as her corporate cronies desire.

I think Trump and his supporters don't care if my children educate my grandchildren at home in whatever way they think is best. I think Clinton and her supporters would outlaw that if they could.

I think Trump will be more inclined to appoint Supreme Court Judges who think more like Thomas or Rehnquist, and more like I do on all the topics above. And Clinton would appoint judges who think more like her and the wise latina, and would have no qualm about the use of the police, guns, courts and jails of the government to make you and me comply with their way of thinking.

I think if Clinton appoints the people who control the Department of Justice, the Department of Education, the Office of Civil Rights, the IRS, the FDA, the FCC, the Department of Homeland Security, TSA and Customs and Border Protection, the FBI, the EPA, the Federal Reserve Bank... things will get a whole lot shittier a whole lot faster than they will if Trump appoints them.

A lot of shady entities have been paying a whole lot of money to Clintons and Clinton organizations, of note Muslim and Middle Eastern governments and billionaires; Russians and Chinese. They wouldn't pay all that money if they didn't have good reason to believe they'd get what they're paying for. And I don't think it has a lot to do with helping the poor in Haiti.

And as for healthcare, if you think obamacare sucks, wait until you try hillarycare. Because obamacare as it is now isn't going to survive for another four or eight years, and Clinton certainly isn't going to move in the direction of more freedom and healthcare for you, and less control and more risk for her and her hyper-rich benefactors.

I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States when I got drafted into the Army.

I'm voting for Trump even though I live in Minnesota.

Wow - given all the libertarian-flavored stuff on this blog, I am astounded that you are voting for Hillary.

Get ready for more invasive traffic stops and predatory government confiscation of private property, of the kind you've written about. Leading ultimately to registry/confiscation of firearms.

Conan hte Grammarian at November 7, 2016 7:26 AM

☑

It's not just that it's hard to admire the candidates; it's hard to admire anyone who'd vote for either of them.

Human Nature is having it's way with us, and this century will not be pleasant.

"Trump, on the other hand, appeals, to fear of terrorists and crime." Conan the Grammarian @7:26 am

Dude, you say that as if it's a bad thing.

"it's hard to admire anyone who'd vote for either of them."

Crid, I had to ponder that for a minute. Oh, no I didn't. Do you want to have a vote on who wants Crid's admiration?

Vote Trump to protect the Supreme Court of the United States.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/hilarious-fbn-compares-hillarys-florida-goat-call-howard-deans-infamous-meltdown-video/

Funny, that.

It's a family business. There is no annual stockholder's meeting.

It's not just that it's hard to admire the candidates; it's hard to admire anyone who'd vote for either of them. ~ Crid at November 7, 2016 12:54 PM

True. I find myself looking askance at my pro-Hillary friends as well as my pro-Donald friends. Their reasoning seems entirely based on infantile antagonism toward the opposing candidate with no serious consideration of the candidate for whom they're voting; that or fairy tale fantasies of flying unicorns that fart rainbows if their candidate is elected.

And yet, these two pieces have merit.

I'll be drinking tonight. Our usual conference call will be postponed: See the group email for details, including your weekly assignments.

This is musically good 🎼:

Their reasoning seems entirely based on infantile antagonism toward the opposing candidate with no serious consideration of the candidate for whom they're voting; that or fairy tale fantasies of flying unicorns that fart rainbows if their candidate is elected.

🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟

I think Clinton is more likely to believe that freedom of religion means that the people are free to choose whatever religion the government deems to be valid and practice it in the manner approved by the government.

And in practice, this is likely to mean that a Christian can't refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, but a Muslim can stone a woman for not wearing a burqa in public.

I voted for Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket four years ago and was prepared to do the same this time. But I really didn't like his attempts to be "Trump-lite." I noticed that Gloria la Riva is running for President for the Peace and Freedom Party in California. I've met her before. That's who my vote will go to.

The Libertarians are running a candidate for the US Senate in North Carolina. His occupation is listed as "pizza delivery driver" and his main goal if elected will be to "stop all war." His opponents include an 11-year incumbent and an ACLU lawyer and former state legislator.

And who, in the Libertarian Party thought, "dude, he got it here in 30 minutes or less, let's make him a US Senator!"

And people wonder why the Libertarians don't win elections.

And people wonder why the Libertarians don't win elections.

Agreed, Conan. And I'll bet Pizza Guy hasn't bothered to run for school board or city council before.

It is a little weird how there is an uncanny valley effect with both candidates. You need name recognition to get this far in the game. Joe Blow across the street just isn't going to make it to the ballot. But both candidates do better when people know less about them. People who are more familiar with Clinton prefer Trump and people who are more familiar with Trump prefer Clinton. My memory is short but I don't recall an election with that dynamic in the past.

Amy, that has to be the most anti-libertarian thing I've ever seen you write. Voting, sadly, gives consent to other human beings to rule over you. You're better off not voting than doing so, and if you had to, the war-drum beating fascist/murderer, Ms. Killary Klinton should definitely be the last one on the list.

I'm actually fascinated by this entire ordeal because every time a vote is cast, it's for the Party, not the Person.

And finally, we have a candidate that isn't beholden to a party, where you are actually voting for the Person ...... and it's Donald F-ing Trump. Who says irony is dead?

Much like The Dark Knight, America will not get the candidate it needs, but it sure as fuck will get the one it deserves.

My familiarity with Clinton, and her forty years of shenanigans is such that I would prefer *the turnip*.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LGwwTfZtgWU

I hear that Isab. I wonder if the libertarians would have done better with a rutabaga. It's been a weird election.

So, you voted for the candidate who took money from governments that execute gays and apostates?

I voted early, and I voted for Trump.

Trump is as vile a human being as you can have. He's a narcissist who believes that he is so superior that he deserves the presidency. He's a lunatic who has never met a conspiracy theory he doesn't like. Everything he reads on the internet, he uncritically believes. Ann Coulter once said of Donald Trump's involvement in the birther movement that this is Donald Trump's Pierre Salinger moment. Well, he failed. He does believe everything he reads on the internet.

However, Hillary Clinton is for globalism and porous borders. If she wins, the hell the immigrants and refugees have created in Europe will be recreated in the U.S. Because if think she's going to stop at 65K Syrian refugees, I'll have whatever you're smoking, thanks.

And if Donald Trump wins, we strike back against the SJWs. They've taken their sanctimonious crusade to absurd levels. There are only two genders, and non-binary is not a thing.

Cultural appropriation is also not a thing. Anything that anyone uses among U.S. citizens belongs to U.S. culture. We can style our hair however we like, perform whatever music we want, speak however we want and wear whatever clothing we like.

I'll amend my last statement somewhat. Native Americans might have a legitimate grievance as far as the cultural appropriation issue goes, since reservations are considered sovereign nations. However, black Americans do not. As far as they're concerned, cultural appropriation is not a thing.

SJWs, you've gone too far. Enough is enough.

Incidentally, are there any 35 year old turnips out there? I could go for a home grown hero next election cycle.

X- Patrick for president.

Amy, you've said several times that you were voting for Johnson. When did you change your mind and why?