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If you were looking for just one more thing to read about the Harvey Weinstein scandal, consider this by Pod. It called to mind troubled boss recently in my career who, if not inclined to sexual misconduct, nonetheless evinced philosophically Hobbesian wretchedness.
I almost disagree with Podhoretz that there's no "insurance adjusters couch": We can imagine plenty of sexual misconduct across the American economy. But I think he's correct that Hollywood is a special case.
Consider this article by Flanagan. It was good to her to flag the gossip problems in the Weekly Standard, but I think she's wrong, in a poignant way, to talk about the "talented" young women who are at risk in show business.
Everyone reading these words knows that talent often has nothing to do with movie/showbusiness stardom. For generation after generation, pretty faces with merely the "talent" for speaking aloud and walking ten steps have been acclaimed as gifted performers, but aficionados never seem able to agree on language to describe their powers... Though the rest of us can all appreciate their beauty.
When all that's required is good skin and a nice jawline, the career of the movie star is indescribably sweet: Money, fame, flattery and ease as far as the eye can see. It's this disproportion of effort and outcome that makes a Weinstein happen. The contenders for stardom (and for the surrounding players in the business) are so eager that the rest of us can only assume that they put up with Harvey Weinstein because he's worth it...
To them, if not to the rest of us.
Crid
at October 15, 2017 6:08 AM
The contenders for stardom (and for the surrounding players in the business) are so eager that the rest of us can only assume that they put up with Harvey Weinstein because he's worth it... ~ Crid at October 15, 2017 6:08 AM
I wonder if the reason that feminists ascribe Weinstein's predations to "toxic masculinity" is that, in their world (politics and Hollywood), every woman has to deal with a Harvey Weinstein. Whereas the mundane world has social and legal constraints on behavior like that (thanks, in part, to early feminists).
What the entertainment and politics worlds see as normal (1 in 4), the mundane world sees as extreme and rare.
No boss in a financial services company or a law firm or an engineering firm could get away with such behavior today. Then again, as you point out, the rewards-to-effort ratio is not as unbalanced as it is in entertainment, so the tolerance for such abuse is much lower.
To be a doctor or a CPA or an engineer takes advanced education and sincere effort (delayed gratification). To be an entertainer, despite the abundance of training schools and philosophies on the subject, takes an ability to memorize and emote and can be done to a high degree of success by a high school dropout (Johnny Depp, Eminem, Nicole Kidman, Mark Wahlberg, et al.).
Modern feminists equate (and lose their minds over) the covert sexism of old school engineers or firefighters who work in what has, to now, been an almost exclusively masculine endeavor with the overt sexual predations of a Harvey Weinstein, 'cause that's what they know. The two are not equal. As someone points out in another thread, a wolf whistle, while unwelcome, is not sexual assault.
Harvey Weinstein had the ability to compel sexual submission and cover up his predations to a degree not available to the VP of a corporate entity. The wide-eyed waif looking for fame and fortune knows she's not going to get it from the VP of an accounting firm (at least not without the requisite training and certifications). But from a Harvey Weinstein, she could get a breakthrough role that lands her on the red carpet and puts a shiny gold statue in her hands while cameras flash and people swoon. Heady stuff. And available for the price of an afternoon with Harvey.
Academia suffers from a similar unbalance of power; students (women) seeking reward (grades) being exploited by men in power (professors). A tenured professor is difficult to fire, even for sexual misconduct. A drunken girl being raped becomes the exemplar for campus "rape culture," not an object lesson about alcohol abuse.
Through the glasses of the world in which they operate, modern feminists see exploitation in every male-female situation; in every encounter in which a man has the upper hand, even if only slightly. Perhaps they need to get out more. When the only tool you have is a hammer....
Conan the Grammarian
at October 15, 2017 8:59 AM
Nude Nuns with Big Guns imdb.com/title/tt1352388/?ref_=ext_shr_tw_tt
PS Crid, writing like mad now, so, briefly: I read and shared both Caitlin's and Pod's pieces, and thought they were right on about a lot of it.
Conan is right: "Harvey Weinstein had the ability to compel sexual submission and cover up his predations to a degree not available to the VP of a corporate entity."
AKA: that shit will never sell. But the Aussies thought it was “a bloody good drop”.
I R A Darth Aggie
at October 15, 2017 12:08 PM
New York Times runs a huge piece on the devastation of NAFTA on a white American blue-collar woman, highlighting the anti-Mexican views of her former co-workers (former, because the execs made millions in bonuses by moving the manufacturing to Mexico).
But somehow the Times doesn't mention NAFTA, Bush the First (originator), Bill Clinton (signed the treaty), or Obama (left it in place) - but does take a swipe at Trump for wanting to bring the jobs back.
In this case, we're talking about Yale (in the second half). Granted, this column is from a year ago and I don't know what's happened since then.
lenona
at October 15, 2017 1:35 PM
Btw, there are 12 comments.
lenona
at October 15, 2017 1:38 PM
How are people who accepted/put up with/conspired with Harvey not complicit in their own debasement, however much it may be?
It's just sex. I know it's more important than murder in the USA today, but nobody died, everybody got something out of the deal...
They're just haggling over the price, and now virtue-signalling since ol' Harv can't get them anything any more.
Questions:
• Who's the star-maker now?
• Snowflakes, imagine that you're looking for a part in a movie, and you're the exact same body type as another hottie who will do things in the dark to get work. How do you compete with that? Then, how do you prove you'd ahve been a better choice after a contract is signed?
Radwaste
at October 15, 2017 2:56 PM
As Rush Limbaugh has said, the Left can be really funny when they're out of power.
It isn't just Hollywood Crid. As you pointed out earlier Tinsel town isn't unique and Harvey isn't special. As I said earlier any industry where you have vastly more people wanting jobs than there are jobs available the employer has outsized power. Like in academia as Lenona points out. The same is true for individual companies as for industries as a whole. Why does Google feel comfortable firing employees with opinions they don't like? Because there are 100 other potential employees looking to take that slot.
The same is also true in reverse. Which is why many of us hate union. Can't be fired. Can't get a pay raise or cut. In fact your employer can't to anything to you no matter what you do. Why get any work done? Why show up? You get paid the same if you just take the day off and watch TV. So why get anything done?
The best solution for both cases is what is already happening. Publicize the truth. Guy never worked an honest day in his life because he was union, don't hire him. Job involves getting raped by your boss, find a different job. When you no longer have this enormous power imbalance the problem goes away.
Ben
at October 15, 2017 5:55 PM
To answer NiamhNic's point, Sixclaws, because there are far more victims than there are perps. Even for thieves they estimate they stole over 10x before they got caught. Reporting 100 thefts sounds a lot bigger than 10 thieves. Same with rapes, murders, and even litterers. Reporting the number of crimes and not the number of criminals makes the problem sound bigger.
So Weinstein-wise, have any of these assault victims explained why they didn't file police complaints and lawsuits and hold press conferences and just let his monster rape and grope and assault his merry way for a few horrendous decades?
Or did they just decide their careers were more valuable than their honor and safety - and the honor and safety of other women?
Not to blame the victims but damn. Nothing is worth that kind of abuse.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at October 15, 2017 7:00 PM
Meanwhile, eeeeevil Trump, that "infant with nukes", that "petulant child", is apparently leaning toward . . . wait for it . . . more state control of transportation decisions. This is something I have supported in recent years, and that even Ronald Reagan did not push, as far as I know.
If you were looking for just one more thing to read about the Harvey Weinstein scandal, consider this by Pod. It called to mind troubled boss recently in my career who, if not inclined to sexual misconduct, nonetheless evinced philosophically Hobbesian wretchedness.
I almost disagree with Podhoretz that there's no "insurance adjusters couch": We can imagine plenty of sexual misconduct across the American economy. But I think he's correct that Hollywood is a special case.
Consider this article by Flanagan. It was good to her to flag the gossip problems in the Weekly Standard, but I think she's wrong, in a poignant way, to talk about the "talented" young women who are at risk in show business.
Everyone reading these words knows that talent often has nothing to do with movie/showbusiness stardom. For generation after generation, pretty faces with merely the "talent" for speaking aloud and walking ten steps have been acclaimed as gifted performers, but aficionados never seem able to agree on language to describe their powers... Though the rest of us can all appreciate their beauty.
When all that's required is good skin and a nice jawline, the career of the movie star is indescribably sweet: Money, fame, flattery and ease as far as the eye can see. It's this disproportion of effort and outcome that makes a Weinstein happen. The contenders for stardom (and for the surrounding players in the business) are so eager that the rest of us can only assume that they put up with Harvey Weinstein because he's worth it...
To them, if not to the rest of us.
Crid at October 15, 2017 6:08 AM
I wonder if the reason that feminists ascribe Weinstein's predations to "toxic masculinity" is that, in their world (politics and Hollywood), every woman has to deal with a Harvey Weinstein. Whereas the mundane world has social and legal constraints on behavior like that (thanks, in part, to early feminists).
What the entertainment and politics worlds see as normal (1 in 4), the mundane world sees as extreme and rare.
No boss in a financial services company or a law firm or an engineering firm could get away with such behavior today. Then again, as you point out, the rewards-to-effort ratio is not as unbalanced as it is in entertainment, so the tolerance for such abuse is much lower.
To be a doctor or a CPA or an engineer takes advanced education and sincere effort (delayed gratification). To be an entertainer, despite the abundance of training schools and philosophies on the subject, takes an ability to memorize and emote and can be done to a high degree of success by a high school dropout (Johnny Depp, Eminem, Nicole Kidman, Mark Wahlberg, et al.).
Modern feminists equate (and lose their minds over) the covert sexism of old school engineers or firefighters who work in what has, to now, been an almost exclusively masculine endeavor with the overt sexual predations of a Harvey Weinstein, 'cause that's what they know. The two are not equal. As someone points out in another thread, a wolf whistle, while unwelcome, is not sexual assault.
Harvey Weinstein had the ability to compel sexual submission and cover up his predations to a degree not available to the VP of a corporate entity. The wide-eyed waif looking for fame and fortune knows she's not going to get it from the VP of an accounting firm (at least not without the requisite training and certifications). But from a Harvey Weinstein, she could get a breakthrough role that lands her on the red carpet and puts a shiny gold statue in her hands while cameras flash and people swoon. Heady stuff. And available for the price of an afternoon with Harvey.
Academia suffers from a similar unbalance of power; students (women) seeking reward (grades) being exploited by men in power (professors). A tenured professor is difficult to fire, even for sexual misconduct. A drunken girl being raped becomes the exemplar for campus "rape culture," not an object lesson about alcohol abuse.
Through the glasses of the world in which they operate, modern feminists see exploitation in every male-female situation; in every encounter in which a man has the upper hand, even if only slightly. Perhaps they need to get out more. When the only tool you have is a hammer....
Conan the Grammarian at October 15, 2017 8:59 AM
Nude Nuns with Big Guns imdb.com/title/tt1352388/?ref_=ext_shr_tw_tt
Amy Alkon at October 15, 2017 9:05 AM
PS Crid, writing like mad now, so, briefly: I read and shared both Caitlin's and Pod's pieces, and thought they were right on about a lot of it.
Conan is right: "Harvey Weinstein had the ability to compel sexual submission and cover up his predations to a degree not available to the VP of a corporate entity."
Amy Alkon at October 15, 2017 9:07 AM
Having a Hurricane Harvey can give sinners cover for their own peccadilloes.
Have I sinned? sure, but I'm not Harvey.
Of course, this is still the Academy that fete's Polanski, so I think more physician, heal thyselves are in order
I R A Darth Aggie at October 15, 2017 9:14 AM
As someone points out in another thread, a wolf whistle, while unwelcome, is not sexual assault.
Tch. Oh, Conan, haven't you heard?
Your speech is battery, my battery is speech.
I R A Darth Aggie at October 15, 2017 9:20 AM
Huh.
http://www.tmz.com/2017/10/14/courtney-love-harvey-weinstein-2005-warns-actresses-sexual-harassment/
I R A Darth Aggie at October 15, 2017 11:32 AM
TMZ documents that Harvey Weinstein's perversity was a well-known and long-running joke in Hollywood.
Watch the videos at the end of the article.
Conan the Grammarian at October 15, 2017 12:02 PM
A palate cleanser. A brief history of the origins of Bailey's Irish Cream.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/in-1973-i-invented-a-girly-drink-called-baileys-1.3240945
AKA: that shit will never sell. But the Aussies thought it was “a bloody good drop”.
I R A Darth Aggie at October 15, 2017 12:08 PM
New York Times runs a huge piece on the devastation of NAFTA on a white American blue-collar woman, highlighting the anti-Mexican views of her former co-workers (former, because the execs made millions in bonuses by moving the manufacturing to Mexico).
But somehow the Times doesn't mention NAFTA, Bush the First (originator), Bill Clinton (signed the treaty), or Obama (left it in place) - but does take a swipe at Trump for wanting to bring the jobs back.
Color me surprised.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 15, 2017 1:07 PM
Just a reminder: Even outside of Hollywood, on left-wing campuses, harassers aren't necessarily sent packing, even with plenty of accusers.
"If women are being harassed at work, they usually can’t afford to flounce out of the room in high Victorian dudgeon."
https://www.thenation.com/article/dont-bother-reporting-sexual-harassment-unless-youve-got-10-other-women-saying-the-same-thing/
In this case, we're talking about Yale (in the second half). Granted, this column is from a year ago and I don't know what's happened since then.
lenona at October 15, 2017 1:35 PM
Btw, there are 12 comments.
lenona at October 15, 2017 1:38 PM
How are people who accepted/put up with/conspired with Harvey not complicit in their own debasement, however much it may be?
It's just sex. I know it's more important than murder in the USA today, but nobody died, everybody got something out of the deal...
They're just haggling over the price, and now virtue-signalling since ol' Harv can't get them anything any more.
Questions:
• Who's the star-maker now?
• Snowflakes, imagine that you're looking for a part in a movie, and you're the exact same body type as another hottie who will do things in the dark to get work. How do you compete with that? Then, how do you prove you'd ahve been a better choice after a contract is signed?
Radwaste at October 15, 2017 2:56 PM
As Rush Limbaugh has said, the Left can be really funny when they're out of power.
Activists Wave Sex Toys to Protest Second Amendment Speech At UW
mpetrie98 at October 15, 2017 3:20 PM
Something something Toxic Masculinity something something
https://twitter.com/NiamhNic/status/919504056795697152
Sixclaws at October 15, 2017 3:34 PM
When you tell him that you want to take the relationship to the next level:
https://twitter.com/Animal_R_Us/status/919664142402940940
Sixclaws at October 15, 2017 5:44 PM
It isn't just Hollywood Crid. As you pointed out earlier Tinsel town isn't unique and Harvey isn't special. As I said earlier any industry where you have vastly more people wanting jobs than there are jobs available the employer has outsized power. Like in academia as Lenona points out. The same is true for individual companies as for industries as a whole. Why does Google feel comfortable firing employees with opinions they don't like? Because there are 100 other potential employees looking to take that slot.
The same is also true in reverse. Which is why many of us hate union. Can't be fired. Can't get a pay raise or cut. In fact your employer can't to anything to you no matter what you do. Why get any work done? Why show up? You get paid the same if you just take the day off and watch TV. So why get anything done?
The best solution for both cases is what is already happening. Publicize the truth. Guy never worked an honest day in his life because he was union, don't hire him. Job involves getting raped by your boss, find a different job. When you no longer have this enormous power imbalance the problem goes away.
Ben at October 15, 2017 5:55 PM
To answer NiamhNic's point, Sixclaws, because there are far more victims than there are perps. Even for thieves they estimate they stole over 10x before they got caught. Reporting 100 thefts sounds a lot bigger than 10 thieves. Same with rapes, murders, and even litterers. Reporting the number of crimes and not the number of criminals makes the problem sound bigger.
Ben at October 15, 2017 5:59 PM
http://www.earthlymission.com/russia-wants-bulgarians-to-stop-painting-soviet-monuments-to-look-like-american-superheroes/
Sixclaws at October 15, 2017 6:57 PM
So Weinstein-wise, have any of these assault victims explained why they didn't file police complaints and lawsuits and hold press conferences and just let his monster rape and grope and assault his merry way for a few horrendous decades?
Or did they just decide their careers were more valuable than their honor and safety - and the honor and safety of other women?
Not to blame the victims but damn. Nothing is worth that kind of abuse.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 15, 2017 7:00 PM
Meanwhile, eeeeevil Trump, that "infant with nukes", that "petulant child", is apparently leaning toward . . . wait for it . . . more state control of transportation decisions. This is something I have supported in recent years, and that even Ronald Reagan did not push, as far as I know.
Driving Toward a New Highway Federalism
mpetrie98 at October 15, 2017 7:53 PM
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