"I am not a fan of swear words..."

What is she? Six?

I don't care that she objects to the use of George Carlin's seven words (name one Mormon who doesn't), but she uses the expression of inarticulate preadolescents, "swear words."

"I'm telling Mommy! You said a swear word!"

It's also redundant; if it's swearing, what else could it be but words? Reminds me of a coworker who vehemently objected to callers who used "profanity language." I told him it was either "profane language" or just "profanity," but he never seemed to grasp the concept. So, what became a commonly-used expression to him was a mildly cringeworthy awkward expression to the rest of the free world.

Articulate preadolescents and above use simply "swearing." And mature adults use "profanity."

The Goddess writes: Regarding what I did see way back when: Though I'm not for a government forcing people to use others preferred forms of reference, I think it's kind to try.

Just to clarify, Jordan Peterson's objections went beyond using feminine pronouns, for example, on a male-to-female transgendered person. His objections were about using pronouns that don't exist, like "xe" and "xir."

And I will never use those non-words either. The lovely thing about pronouns is that there is a set number of them, and they will never be added to. The problem is that with the law in Canada being phrased the way it is, you could literally invent any non-word you wanted to and insist that it's your pronoun and demand its usage.

I haven't investigated Peterson's work in any meaningful way... Deep-scanning the Newman interview is about it. (I know he did an hour or so with Cam a few months ago, but I didn't watch it... It started slow. Yonder. 1:43... Yikes.)

On twitter, he asked his fanboys to be gentle with last week's interlocutor. But the art direction for this newspaper article is award-worthy. It's nice to have a sense of humor about oneself, especially when it affords mockery on one's rude adversaries.

Patrick: "...you could literally invent any non-word you wanted to and insist that it's your pronoun and demand its usage."

Fortunately the pronouns that are different than the customary ones are third person. You use them when talking about someone, not when talking to them. The second person pronouns - you, your, yours - are gender neutral. So most of the time if you misgender someone they never know about it.

I encounter transgender people at work almost daily. If I inadvertently use the wrong pronoun when they can hear me, most of them will appreciate that I'm trying and not let it bother them.

A couple of times I've been scolded by a transgender person for not using their preferred pronouns. My response is to apologize and assure them I'll try to do better; and then politely ask that they also use my preferred pronouns, which are thee, thou, thy and thine. Mine, being second person, are used when talking to me, and so are more challenging.

A couple of times I've been scolded by a transgender person for not using their preferred pronouns. ~ Ken R at January 24, 2018 4:44 AM

The scolding is probably more about the fact that your confusion reminds them that their transgenderism is not immediately obvious to the public at large; that they are not what they pretend to be

That is, they want to be another gender, they think of themselves as another gender, they move through the world as if they're another gender, but they're not. They want the world to perceive them as the other gender, however they are perceived by the world at large as their original gender, however disguised.

And no amount of altered pronoun usage is going to change that.

How is this going to work if it continues down this path? Let's say you're chased by a mugger and the police ask you if the mugger was male or female. You tell the officer that you don't know because you didn't get a chance to ask which pronouns to use?

Something similar - Tennys Sandgren launches attack on media: “You seek to put people in these little boxes so that you can order the world in your already assumed preconceived ideas”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tennis/tennis-sandgren-launches-extraordinary-attack-on-media-after-australian-open-exit/news-story/defd37ba9e2fe90d3a5f9baf5d3d4bcb

Jordan Peterson: "DNA exists."

Cathy Newman: "So you're saying you support the forced eugenic sterilization of everyone with an IQ below 130?"

https://twitter.com/primalpoly/status/956004054701756416

Don't trust a lobster monger how attempts to sell you lobsters out of his suit coat.

The lovely thing about pronouns is that there is a set number of them, and they will never be added to.

It isn't impossible that xe or xir won't make it if they become common usage. But I won't be helping to make them common.

The problem is that with the law in Canada being phrased the way it is, you could literally invent any non-word you wanted to and insist that it's your pronoun and demand its usage.

That's not the problem, since it will never be enforced that way. It will allow for selective enforcement against Wrong Thought People.

Peterson seems to have become a role model/father figure for a certain variety of manchild, which is all to the good, I suppose. One of his basic points is that adults have to choose something rather than remaining in stasis and "open to any possibility."

That appeals to me, as I have no patience for such people.

I just ordered your book, Amy. Isn't it funny how Amazon is already offering supposedly "used" copies of your book?

Interestingly enough, Amazon also suggested Jordan Peterson's book when I ordered yours. So I got that, too.

"That is, they want to be another gender, they think of themselves as another gender, they move through the world as if they're another gender, but they're not. They want the world to perceive them as the other gender, however they are perceived by the world at large as their original gender, however disguised."

So... what pronoun are you gonna use for this person?

I suggest that everyone quit being sensitive about this, and, in case of error, simply say, "Sorry - but you must know that it is not apparent. I hope you realize that in conversation, your preference will continue to confuse people as a result."

So... what pronoun are you gonna use for this person? ~ Radwaste at January 24, 2018 10:28 AM

When you're advertising yourself as "Ladyboy69," you know exactly what you are.

But you didn’t answer the question.
What if you met?

Obviously if someone can trick you into thinking they are something they are not, then they have tricked you.

My guess is Conan was talking about someone more like this person:
https://www.facebook.com/daniellemuscato.page/

Even without all of that it can be confusing. There is a person I know and I think she always was a lady. But she has a bit of a mustache. She is actually kinda proud of it. Or at least appears so. But I think this is more of a Hispanic than trans thing.

Green:

I don’t think “embarrassing meme” is how Cathy Newman would have chosen to define her career, but that’s the game she chose to play.

☑ Affirmed.

[Presumably] Fuckable TeeVee NewsAnchor Bimbo is dying as a career form before our very eyes... It should have died in 1972 or so, but here we are. If this woman's incoherence & idiot faith in her own childlike befuddlement speed the process, we can give Peterson sincere thanks for a job done patiently and well, and need ask no more of him.

But you didn’t answer the question.
What if you met?
~ Radwaste at January 24, 2018 11:57 AM

Face-to-face, I'd use "you" and "your" as well as "I" and "my."

And, my point is that I can use whatever pronoun he or she wants me to use and it won't matter. It won't change his or her actual biological gender.

Gender is not a societal construct that you can put on like a coat and change on a whim. And we need to stop treating it like it is.

My guess is Conan was talking about someone more like this person: ~ NicoleK at January 24, 2018 12:09 PM

That person is deluding himself.

If you recognize that you yourself have changed your opinion on things over time and (horrors) even been wrong sometimes, it becomes easier to admit that people may have different life experiences and different values that shape their views. These things are now right or wrong, they just are. Men often have done dangerous things and this lowers their perception of everyday risks compared to most women, who are often scared of getting mugged or of some disaster way out of proportion to the risk.
If on the other hand, your whole sense of worth comes from feeling superior to the "deplorables" or "racists", then you cannot admit anything and if you do ever change your mind, your past view simply never existed. This type of person is constantly coming up to me and confiding about how horrible Trump is and isn't the world coming to an end, not being able to grasp that someone in their circle might have voted for him and be pretty happy with the circus and with his accomplishments. They can't imagine it.

Patrick snobulates, I don't care that she objects to the use of George Carlin's seven words (name one Mormon who doesn't), but she uses the expression of inarticulate preadolescents, "swear words."

F*ck you, Patrick. I'm one Mormon who doesn't. Suzanne (who is great, by the way, and whose column I read avidly) is using the descriptive term of her cultural milieu, as are you when you're being a smug, pontificating ass.

Grey Ghost: F*ck you, Patrick. I'm one Mormon who doesn't.

Obviously, you do object to the use of George Carlin's seven words. Otherwise, you'd be able to spell the word "fuck," instead of this coy, preadolescent use of asterisks which impresses no one.

And frankly, you have no moral perch to chide anyone for being smug, pontificating, or an ass.

I stay up nights thinking of all the uses I have for your opinion. (That, by the way, was sarcasm. In case it was lost on you.)

"And, my point is that I can use whatever pronoun he or she wants me to use and it won't matter. It won't change his or her actual biological gender.
Gender is not a societal construct that you can put on like a coat and change on a whim. And we need to stop treating it like it is."

Oh. Really?

In actual fact, binary gender produces humans who do not display the traits you find normal and even pleasing, but who still have rights guaranteed by the Constitution. The amazing puzzle I linked to above did not choose not to be built like the Governator, and I suggest that if he had not embraced the deception he would be bullied, beaten and derided every day. It is the change in appearance, the desire of a person to not need to hide, that is driving activism. I object to the noise this generates but not to the principle. I've seen enough "normal" people being abysmally stupid to discount the negatives attached to others.

Profanity will not pass the CC sensors, though on basic cable.
We could start a web site with guess the word...
The obvious ones, like HALF-XXXXED or the more obscure SUXXXXIOUS.

In actual fact, binary gender produces humans who do not display the traits you find normal and even pleasing, but who still have rights guaranteed by the Constitution. ~ Radwaste at January 25, 2018 10:59 AM

Raddy, I did not advocate taking away anyone's rights guaranteed by the Constitution. As far a I'm concerned people can skip down the street in tutus and call themselves whatever they want.

But upending society (culture, language, etc.) to conform to the gender dismophia of a small percentage of people is nonsense. And does them no favors.

Ladyboy is effeminate. So what. I don't care that he's not built like the Governator. The Governator's physique is a biological anomaly. Healthy humans do not normally look like that. Nor am I condoning any bullying, beating, and derision he allegedly encountered in life - or condemning him for any coping strategy.

But if he's going through life believing he's actually a woman, he needs psychological help, not eager enabling from apologists who "feel his pain" but do nothing to help the underlying psychopathy.

Raddy, we're not talking about people who cross dress, perform in drag, or fantasize - three of the 31 distinct genders recognized by the NYC Commission on Human Rights. Cross-dressing is now a gender?

We're talking about people who have convinced themselves - and are enabled by others - into believing that they are actually the opposite gender than the one their biology has dictated, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

A recent article I read discussed how the transgendered are having trouble dating and are reporting unexpected loneliness after coming out. Coming out and "being honest about themselves" was supposed to correct the psychological disconnect they'd felt all their lives, but they're being rejected as dating partners by gay and straight people alike. One mid-transition transgendered man said he couldn't date straight women because they wanted something he didn't have and he couldn't date lesbians because that conflicted with their sexuality.

My concern, Raddy, is that we're enabling mental illness, creating more problems than we're solving.

Nature has generally provided only two genders.

However, when it comes to confusion, dissatisfaction and evil minded desire to be contrary cusses, there is an almost limitless supply.

To wit, I believe there are people crazy/broken/confused enough to want to be another gender. But while I may humor them, I do not like the color of the sky in their universe, so I'll stay in this one, thank you very much.

And it would fewer transgendered weren't snotty superior college kids with parent issues. Makes me doubt the purity of their insanity, it does.

As I noted to my kids: if a man thinks he is Napoleon, he is judged insane. But if he believes he is a woman, somehow he is a profile in courage?

Um...try again.

And it would help if a large number of the transgendered weren't snotty superior college kids with parent issues. Makes me doubt the purity of their insanity, it does. Makes it seem like a fashion.

One would think I was smart enough to preview. NOPE!