Where Is The Outrage About The Gender Gap In Ballet?
Madison Breshears writes in the WashEx that feminists don't care about the gender gap in ballet -- 20 women to every man -- and wonders why, then, we're supposed to think there's something awful about the one in tech?
If we tend to assume that occupational gender disparities are invariably the result of injustice, then, by all accounts, ballet was suffering from an epidemic of anti-male sexism.But that obviously isn't the case, and you don't need to launch an investigative campaign into casting or hiring practices to know why. Men, on average, simply are not as interested in ballet as women. It isn't even close, and thus neither are the numbers of men and women in ballet.
I remember distinctly from my youth the tinge of jealousy and injustice I felt watching my less talented male peers win medals, receive scholarships, and land company positions that I never did. I understand Damore's point from a deeply personal perspective.
But there is one crucial caveat: While my experience and those of women like me in ballet are an unfortunate but inevitable fact of the industry, Damore and other male Google employees are, in fact, suffering from blatant sex discrimination.
Ballet, after all, can't be done without male roles. Its canonical repertoire demands opposite-sex partnering choreography. There is no analogous constraint in the tech industry to excuse its discrimination in favor of one sex over the other. There is no inherent reason why women need to work in tech; coding is as colorblind as it is sexually indiscriminate. Yet, Google is employing discrimination against one sex and in favor of the other to combat an assumed problem -- latent sexism supposedly causing the enormous gender disparity in tech -- for whose existence the evidence is elusive.
The selective outrage of feminists over disparities like the one in tech is revealing. There is a conspicuous shortage of school programs, campaigns, marches, and hashtags to end the gender gap in, say, teaching, or counseling, which according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics are professions overwhelmingly dominated by women. Nursing is a pretty good gig -- it pays well, is flexible, and nurses can find work anywhere. So, where should we look for the anti-male bias that made it so that more than 90 percent of nurses are women?
And again, from Madison Breshears:
Men, on average, simply are not as interested in ballet as women. It isn't even close, and thus neither are the numbers of men and women in ballet.
Somebody's given Gregg great Dodgers seats a few times -- like, really awesome amazing ones -- and he did the wonderful, loving thing...asking me, "How would you like to NOT go to a Dodger's game with me this weekend?"
My answer, in case you're unclear on how much I love him for asking that way: "If the alternative is retaking the SATs while being bitten by rabid squirrels, please just drop off about six no. 2 pencils and a syringe with a generous helping of rabies vaccine before you head out to the game."
We're interested in what we're interested in, and a good bit of it has to do with our physiology, including our hormones. Physiology shapes psychology -- over generations and generations, in humans and non-human primates.
This is surely why biological anthropologists Sonya Kahlenberg and Richard Wrangham find that girl chimps engage in what appears to be doll play with sticks...much as feminists might like to insist that it's because they saw one-too-many Disney princesses on TV.
People will always pick and choose the arguments that support their position while ignoring those that don’t.
No one screaming about wage gaps points out virtually all “super models” are females and paid many times what men are paid.
Nathan Quarry at April 17, 2018 6:39 AM
Teaching and nursing are rather poor examples, since up to about 50-60 years ago these were the only professions generally open to women - and as a result, were not only female dominated but poorly paid. Schools, hospitals, and business executives benefited from being able to hire very intelligent and hard-working women in these relatively low-paid jobs... But I'm not sure how this relates to the present-day.
The percentage of prison inmates who are male is at least as great as the percentage of tech workers who are male, but I've never heard anyone complaining about this gender gap. What prisoners and geeks have in common is that most of them diverge far from the average in at least one trait. Women cluster tighter around the average in many traits, which means fewer geniuses, but also fewer morons, fewer women lacking in impulse control, and probably fewer sociopaths.
markm at April 17, 2018 8:27 AM
When I worked in banking, a senior VP and I were discussing the prevalence of women in the higher ranks of consumer banking. He theorized that it came from the very early practice of hiring women as tellers. They could work bankers' hours while the kids were in school and be home by the time the children were home from school.
When the children left for college, those tellers were then free to concentrate on a career and did so, rising up through the ranks until consumer banking became a essentially a woman's world.
One of the reasons I left consumer banking was that it was a woman's world - with very little room for men. After having two women bosses blatantly discriminate against me and harass me, I'd had enough.
Conan the Grammarian at April 17, 2018 8:45 AM
But I'm not sure how this relates to the present-day.
Compare and contrast with some of the historically male dominated fields, and what they're doing to attract more women. Are they actively recruiting women, or are they letting those candidates come to them?
I R A Darth Aggie at April 17, 2018 10:17 AM
Oh, and then there's the death gap.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-nobody-talks-about-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I R A Darth Aggie at April 17, 2018 10:24 AM
I beg to differ. The gender gap in ballet has everything to do with anti-male sexism.
If you look at the style of legendary choreographer Ted Shawn, for instance, you'll see a very forceful, very harsh style of dance, which, for lack of a better term, might be described as masculine.
Why did he do this? Precisely because anything less would have gotten him and his all-male dance company tarred as homosexual and consequently forced into bankruptcy.
So, men who decide become dancers are all faggots? Sounds like anti-male sexism to me.
And don't even try to tell me that standard doesn't still exist today.
Patrick at April 17, 2018 11:52 AM
Another disparity feminists ignore, the death gap in alternate timelines by time travelers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBkBS4O3yvY
lujlp at April 17, 2018 3:59 PM
I don't think anyone but the most uncultured redneck thought of Mikhail Baryshnikov as homosexual.
John Travolta, Gene Kelly, Patrick Swayze, and Fred Astaire enjoyed long and successful careers as dancers and actors with few aspersions cast about their sexuality. Kelly is "credited with almost single-handedly making the ballet form commercially acceptable to film audiences."
Conan the Grammarian at April 17, 2018 6:42 PM
Anthropologists have pointed out that "womens' work" is seen as lower status. This is the same regardless of what the job is... if a job, say basket making, is done by women in one culture it is generally considered low status. If it is done by men, it is considered high status.
People think that getting women into male dominated professions will increase the status of women... and it will, for those women, if the professions remain male dominated. But as soon as a critical mass of women enter it, it loses status.
But that is why you don't see people worrying about getting men into womens' traditional jobs... because they would LOSE status.
The solution as I see it is to honor womens' work where they are currently and to see the value of it. But this may be something we have not evolved psychologically to do.
NicoleK at April 18, 2018 7:41 AM
The reason women's work has been generally considered low status is because as it was. It required no education no great strength or stamina.
That began to change slowly in this last hundred years, and the idea is so firmly entrenched people ignore the fact that today women only work 66% of the time men do to earn 80% of the pay. Meaning women in jobs that require education in fact earn more than men these days
lujlp at April 18, 2018 9:02 AM
I would say the disrespect for women's work is an inherent part of female hypergamy. Women instinctively devalue their own work (and those of other women) because they are women. So I don't see any way to solve this problem. Women consist of ~50% of the population. If a field is female dominated women will automatically view it as low status. But you can't have 50% of the population work in fields where the other 50% of the population are in the majority. It just doesn't work that way.
Ben at April 18, 2018 10:57 AM
Where Is The Outrage About The Gender Gap In Ballet?
Also, the Race Gap in the NFL and the NBA.
Regarding women in male-dominated occupations, a shout-out to this awesome woman.
JD at April 18, 2018 6:11 PM
Lujip you did not read my whole post. THE EXACT SAME JOBs from culture to culture are considered high or low status depending if males or females do them.
Ben that is certainly a part of it but is it the chicken or the egg
LUjip at April 18, 2018 9:26 PM
And I explained why that was given the way humanity has operated for literally millions of years until roughly 100 years ago
lujlp at April 19, 2018 8:41 AM
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