> "Of course, people will go, 'What about the victims?' But you know what? **The victims didn't have to go through that.**"

That's a joke and its punch line isn't it? Because it seems to be the standard form of a Norm Macdonald dry ironic joke.

It seems as if Harsanyi didn't understand that, and nor did any of the critics.

I can't see that Hollywood Reporter posted the video of his saying that but I am 99+% sure that's he was making a joke, and it's a joke whose point is that the victims suffered enormously (similar to the famous joke about the boy on trial for murdering his parents who begs the judge for leniency because he is an orphan.)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-norm-macdonalds-new-talk-show-wont-target-trump-1141832

Great point, Jerry. No joking anymore -- if you want to keep your career as a comedian. Uh, wait -- if you're not joking...

Oh, okay, no difficult topics. So, stick to clouds, cheese, and USB ports -- unless that's too, um, sexual. In which case, perhaps newborn baby ducks.

From Jerry's link: "The close friend who penned its forward, Louis C.K......" [emphasis mine] So, The Hollywood Reporter doesn't have editors anymore?

And who exactly are the "victims" of Roseanne Barr's tweet? Valerie Jarrett was insulted. Ooooh.

Louis C.K. had victims, women whose comedienne careers he wrecked or derailed. But Barr? She compared a woman to an ape. She did nothing to ruin or derail that woman's career or life.

Norm McDonald has the perfect dry delivery for a comedian, but he's just not funny, never has been.

Ezra Klein is right. Seeing McDonald grilled on his comment would have been the ideal way for The Tonight Show to handle it.

Fallon is trying to steer a politically neutral path in late night talk show realm, but seems to be catching flak from both sides of the aisle for it. Given the wide divide that exists in this country, people want their late night talk show hosts to be edgy and make fun of politicians they don't like, hence Steven Colbert and his relentless attacks on Trump.

"Seeing McDonald grilled on his comment would have been the ideal way for The Tonight Show to handle it."

But what if McDonald actually made sense? Even if it was unlikely that is a risk they aren't willing to take.

"Given the wide divide that exists in this country, people want their late night talk show hosts to be edgy and make fun of politicians they don't like ..."

To some extent late night has been so 'edgy' for so long anyone who doesn't like that has been driven out of the market. They've moved on to other entertainment. Also, lets be honest, is there 'right wing' late night? It is all attacks on Republicans, not attacks on the other side.

Ben's right. I doubt Fallon has enough heft to rebut McDonald's points without having to resort to name calling, or cutting off his mic.

For instance (emphasis mine)

But Fallon won’t have him on. Now, remember, NBC is the same network that covered up Harvey Weinstein’s sexual abuse allegations. But they won’t have on Macdonald to clarify. Why not? Because, reportedly, Macdonald made members of the Late Show staff cry.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/35764/norm-macdonald-told-not-show-jimmy-fallon-fallon-ben-shapiro

"Louis C.K. had victims, women whose comedienne careers he wrecked or derailed."

I'm looking all over for this but all I can find are the (admitted true) stories of his sexual behaviors - nothing about retaliation or destroying careers.

Gog, if I remember correctly, there were a few women who said he kept them from getting a gig, or dissuaded them from it.

But, victims. How menacing or oblivious do you have to be - as you move through this world - to have victims.

From the New York Times:

In the years since, Ms. Goodman and Ms. Wolov have found some success, but they remained concerned about Mr. Becky [Louis C.K.'s manager] and took themselves out of the running for the many projects he was involved in. Though their humor is in line with what he produces, 'we know immediately that we can never even submit our material,' Ms. Wolov said.

Well, some victims "go through" it, and others do not. Some women surely had their careers -- not to mention their lives -- ruined when dealing with men like Harvey Weinstein. And it's worth noting Louis C.K.'s critics have suggested his harassment derailed careers.

I notice that Roseanne Barr, although mentioned among those who lost everything in one day, is conveniently omitted when asking "What about the victims?"

Precisely because Roseanne Barr has no victims. I'm sure Valerie Jarrett managed to survive.

Somewhat related, but there's a certain incident that happened during college. Not because it's especially traumatic. It's run-of-the-mill for gay people. At least it was when I was in college.

One day, I was walking downhill on a walkway to a separate building that was a bit removed from the campus proper, where the sociology, psychology classes and dance studio was.

As I walked down the hill I saw two guys walking up the hill toward me. As they approached, I heard them saying things in snappish, baleful tones. Things like "Faggot!" "Queer!" and "Homo!" at me. I said nothing and continued to walk toward my class. As we met, I simply passed right between them and just kept going.

Finally, I looked back at them as they looked back at me. "Queer!" they shouted in unison.

Nothing came of this incident, of course. I didn't even occur to me to report it to someone, and I wouldn't imagine anything would have happened if I did.

But I often wonder what would happen if this had happened today. Most likely, if I had reported this incident, they would have gone to great lengths to find out who did this (because I didn't know their names; I had no classes with them), and even though the incident was unwitnessed, they likely would have gotten them kicked out of school.

Particularly since there were similar incidents of hazing that these two were involved in that did have witnesses. One memorable and rather funny incident involved a friend of mine who just entered his dormitory and was seen by one of these two who said, "I hate fucking faggots!"

My friend, who was stocky and a football player in high school, grabbed him by collar shoved him against the wall, and growled, "This faggot could kick your fucking ass!"

My friend had no further problems with him after that.

"I hate fucking faggots!"

Folks like that should really stop fucking them, then.

Thenk yew, thenk yew. I'm here all week, folks. Try the pepper steak!

Ezra Klein twitteth: An interview in which Fallon pushes against these ideas would've been fascinating and useful.

Push back against which ideas? Due process or forgiveness? I know Klein is supposed to be some sort of wunderkind, but boy, can he be a witless demagogue.

Also fun are all the tweets calling Klein to account for thinking Fallon could be harsh enough on MacDonald. Twitter is often like a mob with even less individual thought and accountability.

"Fallon is trying to steer a politically neutral path in late night talk show realm,..."

Isn't this the guy who said he didn't want a conversation with (the deplorables)?

Alienating half the nation is "neutral"?

Twitter is often like a mob with even less individual thought and accountability. ~ Rigelsen at September 14, 2018 7:53 AM

Julie Chen is now under Twitter mob attack for showing a small amount of support for her husband, accused sexual harasser, Les Moonves - under attack from the same side of the aisle that urged Hillary to "stand by her man."