Not sorry. Repeatedly, people have chosen low price over every other criterion for air travel.

Co-worker just got back from (disappointing) LAX after 5 days in SoCal. Delta had plenty of room in overhead bins after requiring them to check their carry-ons; planes were packed. Southwest was better.

The only time I am on a domestic flight that isn’t Southwest is when it is the first or last leg of an international flight. I am always allowed two checked bags on those flights.
I’m really not sure how the other domestic only carriers are staying in business.

If I had to travel a lot to places Southwest doesn’t go, I would join one of the Airline loyalty programs and get their credit card, which usually entitles you to priority boarding and two free checked bags. I’m sure most regular business travelers have already done this.

Don’t be a rube, Figure out how to play the airline’s games, or drive.

They "think" they're in the cargo business, but they are actually in the hospitality business.

No, they're not.

People have spoken. With their feet and wallets, they let the airlines know that price is their main consideration in purchasing transportation. So, airlines have responded by cutting back on things that cost money, like food, proper baggage handling, elbow room, and in-flight entertainment.

What passengers are demanding now is Ritz-Carlton hospitality at Motel 6 prices. Jet fuel ain't cheap. Each seat has to pay for some of the operating costs of that flight, and if those costs are front-loaded with fuel, security, and airport rent. Something's gotta give, and it's gonna be the food, the movie, the elbow room, etc., the things that make the flight comfortable rather than he ones that the government regulates, like maintenance.

Passengers want to bring their entire household with them on a trip to Grandma's - and they want to stash it in the overhead bin, not the cargo bay. On top of that, they want a four-course meal with linen napkins, free and unlimited alcohol, and attentive service - again, all for the price of a Third World bus trip.

It's not that people won't check their bags. It's that they don't want to. And who can blame them? They don't want their checked bags accidentally put on a flight to Poughkeepsie, when they're going to Denver. In addition, the baggage claim process is long and tedious. Who wants to wait 40 minutes to collect one suitcase? Not to mention that passengers don't want fragile belongings destroyed by careless and indifferent baggage monkeys (Google "United breaks guitars").

Airlines could do something to alleviate the real problems with air travel while maintaining a cost-efficient operation.

"This year, U.S. airlines will carry a record 143 million passengers, who will be in the air for 382 million hours, during which they will be fed an estimated total of four peanuts. Yes, the airlines are cutting back on food service, as was dramatically demonstrated on a recent New-York-to-London flight wherein nine first-class passengers were eaten by raiders from coach." ~ Dave Barry (from a column in the Miami Herald on May 23, 2010)

"In the past, passengers had to be able to physically lift the luggage to carry it on to the plane. But that restriction has been eliminated, thanks to the discovery, by the luggage industry, of wheels. Today, passengers routinely board airplanes towing suitcases the size of sleeper sofas. On a recent TWA flight from St. Louis to Atlanta, a passenger boarded with a Volkswagen Jetta, which he was able to get into the overhead storage bin after just seven hours of shoving." ~ Dave Barry (from that same column)

Just guessing -- maybe this CEO is not long for the job?

One would wish, but these days it's fashionable for large corporations to treat their customers like trash.

The only time I would see someone like him get the boot is if enough women complain that he touched them the wrong way.

Chant it with me: let's re-regulate the airlines.

Stressed out employees, exhausted pilots, no leg room, no meals, no ownership verification at the luggage carousels, thieving bag handlers and TSA agents - this needs to change.

That being said, I haven't had a misrouted bag for many years now, so their checked bag systems have certainly improved - if someone doesn't get to your bag first and simply walk away with it.

There are a lot of people (probably the majority) in the air line industry who aren't really interested in running a business. A lot of pilots don't really care how they are treated just as long as they get to fly. Most of the CEOs are more interested in the status of 'being part of the airline industry' than anything else. And as others have noted passengers care almost solely about low costs.

So you can do as Gog suggests and reregulate things, but costs will only go up and service probably won't get any better. As for retarded comments from United's CEO, so what? Walmart's CEO tried to claim their greeters were there for hospitality reasons. Anyone without Downs Syndrome knows they are there to keep people from stealing. A desperate management trying to find a socially acceptable lie and failing isn't unique.

I'm pretty good at packing and don't tend to take trips for more than a week, so a carry-on generally is fine with me. Munoz's ridiculous and risible excuse for raising fees aside, I can assure you that checking a bag is more stressful ... not because I'm nervous about it being waylaid, but just because you never know if the checked-bag line at the departure airport will be 2 minutes or more than an hour.

As far as customers wanting low prices: don't they want those from any industry or service? Not sure why airline apologists seem to blame the customers for wanting both value and good service. ("Good service," in today's airline parlance, adds up to "We got you there and didn't crash, what more do you want?")

...don't they want those from any industry or service? Not sure why airline apologists seem to blame the customers for wanting both value and good service. ("Good service," in today's airline parlance, adds up to "We got you there and didn't crash, what more do you want?") ~ Kevin at November 4, 2018 12:16 PM

It's not the wanting low prices; it's the wanting luxury service at bargain-basement pricing.

Varifrank tweets that airlines are in the "hospitality business." Perhaps they were in the '50s when they were competing with Pullman cars and steamships; when "discount" travel was a Greyhound bus. Today, however, the main competition is other airlines, and the competitive edge is pricing.

Airline travel in the '50s and '60s was viewed as a luxury - mostly due to that heavy government regulation Gog wants to bring back. Routes were limited and chosen by the government, routes were allotted to a chosen airline so competition was limited, and fares were regulated to allow that airline what the FAA considered a "reasonable profit" on each allotted route.

Flights included free drinks, hot meals, hot towels, and lots of legs room. The airlines were legendary carriers like TWA, Pan Am, and Eastern. As a young boy, my first flight was on an Eastern Airlines plane; I still have the plastic wings the flight attendant, "stewardess" then, gave me. When Jimmy Carter deregulated the airlines in the '70s, discount carriers entered the fray and air travel became affordable for the masses.

By choosing discount carriers over old-school carriers, people told the airline industry that they prefer lower prices to "hospitality." Then, those same people complain the old-school carriers are cutting back on services or charging for those services that used to be free.

Those old-school carriers should be able to fix most problems without an expensive capital investment - lost and misrouted luggage, long waits for baggage claim, complex booking procedures, rude gate agents, etc.

However, most airlines continue to blame outside forces for those things and simply raise prices, incurring the righteous wrath of air travelers everywhere.

Some of the things that make air travel today an expensive nightmare are actually beyond the airlines' control - airport rent, TSA procedures, airport parking, gate assignments for connecting flights, tower delays, weather, jet fuel prices, union rules, hijackings, etc.

Nonetheless, the airlines receive the lion's share of the blame for most inconveniences - easier to focus one's anger on the airline employee standing next to one than the unmet bureaucrat in the tower. Easier to gripe about the overpriced snack box than to pay First Class fares and get a hot meal.

While I agree that the United CEO's comment deserves a "WTF" response as if one had just been shouted to by a talking pigeon, I've flown United frequently and never had an issue with them.

The legacy carriers have always met my expectations - which, after years of flying coach, are now lower than a medieval serf's. I bring my own snacks, water, and entertainment. Just get me there alive and we're good.

By the way, it's better to gate check your luggage than to check it at the counter. Gate-checked luggage is brought up to the gangway, not sent to the baggage claim.

The legacy carriers have always met my expectations - which, after years of flying coach, are now lower than a medieval serf's. I bring my own snacks, water, and entertainment. Just get me there alive and we're good.

By the way, it's better to gate check your luggage than to check it at the counter. Gate-checked luggage is brought up to the gangway, not sent to the baggage claim.

Conan the Grammarian at November 4, 2018 1:22 PM

I have found that a 16 hour round trip on a C-130 with jump seats, and no real bathroom is a wonderful way to learn some gratitude for commercial airlines. Too bad more people haven’t experienced *free travel* with Uncle Sam.

One thing I learned about enjoying long flights. Bought a couple of those Contigo metal travel cups that Amy recommended. They are great by the way.

Last trip to Tokyo, I filled the thing with ice and soda water inside security in Denver. The flight attendants on both planes kept it topped off with the same all the way to Tokyo. I bought another bottle at the train station in Tokyo, and still had ice and water when I got home about twenty hours after I left Denver.

You can snap the lid shut and tuck it in the seat back when you need to get out, or have to put up the tray. No spillage, no hassle.

Luggage check is getting easier and better. Especially when I have to go through passport control, my luggage usually beats me to the carrousel. Haven’t had a late or mis directed bag in years.

"Airline travel in the '50s and '60s was viewed as a luxury - mostly due to that heavy government regulation Gog wants to bring back."

True, I'm not a fan of Jimmy Carter.

Passengers want to bring their entire household with them on a trip to Grandma's - and they want to stash it in the overhead bin, not the cargo bay.

If you stashed your entire household in the overhead bin, numbnuts, you'll likely be going to prison for various crimes including assault, battery, and probably several other offenses involving trying to stuff human beings into an airplane overhead compartment.

Your household refers to the occupants of your home, not the furnishings, appliances, tools, utensils, clothing and other non-living things you keep in your home.

> With their feet and wallets, they
> let the airlines know that price
> is their main consideration

Stop being right about stuff, it pisses me off.

...When truth is unpleasant.

> Just get me there alive
> and we're good.

It's too late in the game (and I'm too old) to share your bravado. The industry is too well down its path and I am too impatient.

I'm somewhat tubby but only 5'7". (Tom Cruise! Bob Dylan!) Being crushed into a tiny seat with no legroom might be tolerable, when alcohol is available... Except that there are fat sweaty guys sitting next to me who want to know if I'd mind if they dropped the armrest between us.

Because they find it uncomfortable. They ask without shame or irony. We're supposed to WANT to touch their ill-maintained bodies.

…Especially on flights through Chicago, for some reason. (That's not a joke. I'd skip a Christmas dinner celebration with Jesus Christ if it required a connection at O'Hare.)

> Stressed out employees, exhausted
> pilots, no leg room, no meals, no
> ownership verification at the
> luggage carousels [etc.] - this
> needs to change.

So howabout we let it change without re-regulation, but rather through further de-regulation?... How about trimming the influence of government intrusion into both operations and finance such that energetic people can start airlines which cater to the distinct preferences and concerns of flyers such as yourself?

I'm not trying harp on you, Goggles, and I love you with all my heart... You know that.

But this is a really weird time in the American mentality of business endeavor. People want to fuck with Facebook and Twitter and United and Kroger all these colossal companies through the irresistible might of government power.... As if any of us could be so certain that our fussy little predilections could be profitably implemented upon these behemoth enterprises by fiat.

It's like we WANT there to be huge firms run by assholes, for the same reason that regulators can't stand small business: Big companies are easier to control and manipulate, whereas small ventures wilt when you even glance at them. Geez... Four mandated days off for every employee to celebrate the ethnic heritage of each great-grandmother, and suddenly a little shop's balance sheets evaporate!:

Yeah, it costs them profitability...

So what? I'm secure... I work for government!!

Two things they promised would happen in life but which haven't yet darkened these first six decades: That I would eventually be audited, and that I'd eventually lose luggage.

Presumably, the former has been forestalled by the IRS' inspection of my (modest & honest) returns through Benford in automation.

The latter has been sidestepped by packing that little fucker tightly and never letting it out of my sight.

If you stashed your entire household in the overhead bin, numbnuts, you'll likely be going to prison for various crimes including assault, battery, and probably several other offenses involving trying to stuff human beings into an airplane overhead compartment. ~ Patrick at November 4, 2018 4:17 PM

Well, that would explain the thumping and muffled screaming coming from the overhead on my last flight.

You really are a petty little man, Patrick.

I'd skip a Christmas dinner celebration with Jesus Christ if it required a connection at O'Hare. ~ Crid at November 4, 2018 4:49 PM

O'Hare is one of my favorite airports. I've never made a connecting light at LAX; and I've never missed one at O'Hare, despite some close calls. LAX is a prettier and more modern airport, if such a thing as a pretty airport exists, but O'Hare just works.

I'd always narrowly miss the shuttle between terminals at LAX, even when I'd be early for it. The LAX shuttle schedule always seemed random, and arbitrary.

At O'Hare, I'd have to run down a deserted hallway and take the service stairs to catch the inter-terminal shuttle, but it was always there and always on schedule, so I made my connection.

It can hardly be a coincidence that no language on Earth has ever produced the expression "as pretty as an airport." Airports are ugly. Some are very ugly. Some attain a degree of ugliness that can only be the result of a special effort. ~ Douglas Adams (The Long, Dark Tea-time of the Soul)

Except that there are fat sweaty guys sitting next to me who want to know if I'd mind if they dropped the armrest between us. ~ Crid at November 4, 2018 5:00 PM

On that one, I agree with you. I was seated in the middle seat, beside a guy who should have been charged for two seats on a full flight. He spilled his lasagna, some of it splattering on me, because he was trying to pull his bag out from under the seat in front of him while eating. For the next two hours, I had to sit in close proximity to a oversized guy and a seat that both smelled of sweat and rapidly-souring Italian food.

When is the last time you flew internationally, and to where, Isab?

It's been at least five years since I've been allowed two checked bags on flights to the US (from Europe). It's one, now.

I am always check my luggage would appreciate it if price comparison websites included all fees including a checked bag in the prices they show you.

When is the last time you flew internationally, and to where, Isab?

It's been at least five years since I've been allowed two checked bags on flights to the US (from Europe). It's one, now.

I am always check my luggage would appreciate it if price comparison websites included all fees including a checked bag in the prices they show you.

NicoleK at November 5, 2018 4:39 AM

I fly Denver to Tokyo and back two or three times a year. Usually only check one bag going to, but two on the way back.
Trust me, if the Asians only got one checked bag for free they would stage a revolution at the airport.

I don’t suggest buying your ticket through a search engine web site.like cheapo air. They are good for initial research and cheap tickets but they are no frills tickets.
Usually you are better off, when you find a price you like actually registering for an account, and buying your ticket or tickets directly from the airline(s) you want to travel on. There are some tremendous deals when you hit the sales or go out long term enough. It Is also much easier to read the fare rules when buying directly from an airline. And you often get to pick better seats with no upgrade fee, while earning airline miles.

Nobody is going to hand you a deal. If you don’t like comparison shopping and are lazy about your travel arrangements you will, over the long term, pay thousands more than you need to for fewer amenities.

"I've never made a connecting flight at LAX..."

Someone a while back told me about the (rather bizarre) tunnel network under the airport, and how to access it. (It's available to the public, but the entrances are typically hard to find and there aren't many signs pointing them out.) Since learning about that, I have not had any problems making connections at LAX.

I agree with Conan on the price thing, but... I also observe that on Delta flights that have the "comfort" seats, they are always full. Usually, when I try to book one, there are none available. Now, I know that they are using some of them to upgrade frequent flyers, but I'm sure that they would prioritize a paying customer above most upgrades, so if there are none available, it must be that they are actually selling them. I think there's an unmet demand in North America for mid-price seating. Part of the problem is probably that most of the aircraft used on domestic flights in North America are 737s, A320s, and regional jets, none of which accommodate "business class" seating very well. Boeing is facing end-of-life for the venerable 737 design and they are trying to decide what to do next. Some people there are realizing that they have an opportunity to do something different, something that will be more flexible in terms of how airlines can configure seating.

" ... Goggles, and I love you with all my heart... You know that."

That, plus a hearty breakfast, sustain me through my busy day. Thanks Crid!

I've never made a connecting flight at LAX..."

Someone a while back told me about the (rather bizarre) tunnel network under the airport, and how to access it. (It's available to the public, but the entrances are typically hard to find and there aren't many signs pointing them out.) Since learning about that, I have not had any problems making connections at LAX.”

I haven’t missed a connection at LAX yet. I usually leave extra time, because the construction is a mess at LAX.
Thought it was going to be tight last time I went through but I didn’t have to find the stupid tunnel. There was a bus waiting right there and plenty of signage. I stood in line for about three minutes, got on, and it coughed us out at the next terminal without having to leave the secure area.

Passengers want to bring their entire household with them on a trip to Grandma's - and they want to stash it in the overhead bin, not the cargo bay.

Yes because obviously the most frequent travelers are ones that go only once or twice a year to visit family on the other side of the country.

Forget business travelers like me who fly frequently to visit customers, go to shows, etc....