Rethinking College
Byrne Hobart writes at Medium about how they take their tuition payments -- and when -- at Lambda School:
Lambda School was not the first coding bootcamp, but it's the first one to recognize that one of the big problems in education is mismatched incentives. State and federal governments direct a torrent of subsidies to student loans, and they're largely indifferent to the quality of the collateral. This gives schools an incentive to stretch the definition of a degree as far as possible. If Fannie and Freddie gave anything called a "house" a hundred-thousand dollar mortgage, you'd expect a lot of shacks.And that's just what we get, at least in the legacy education business. We vastly overtrain people for dying careers like journalism, or non-careers like English. This might be virtuous, but it's confusing: if "school" can be an investment in a high-paying career but also a four- (or five-, or six-) year party with some Wittgenstein and Proust thrown in, "school" ceases to be a useful term.
That merely charging differently can become the core of a business reveals just how broken conventional higher education really is. Unlike a normal school, or even a typical coding program, Lambda School charges a percentage of post-graduation salary -- 17% of total comp for two years, but only for students who earn at least $50k, with total payments capped at $30k.
This is perhaps the sanest deal in education, except for natural autodidacts.
...Lambda School has lots of data on students. They know who completes assignments on time, who works well in teams, who will pull an all-nighter rather than miss a deadline, who can handle a crisis without melting down. Lambda School is a four-month program, and with Lambda Fund it would also be a four-month VC pitch.
Educators like to believe that they change their students for life, and for the better. They seem to stop believing this as soon as it's time to negotiate wages -- at that point, they're focused on job security (for themselves) and pay-for-seniority. The Lambda School model is a chance for the American educational system to have skin in the game. Let's see if they take it.
Oren Cass, whom I just heard speak at a Manhattan Institute dinner, argues -- compellingly -- a belief I've long shared: Not everyone should go to college, and we need to stop consigning vocational education to second-class status:
Vocational education will not succeed so long as culture and public policy consign it to second-class status--a dumping ground for students who interfere with what school districts consider their real mission, college prep.But that mission ends in failure for most American students. Only 46% of Americans 25 to 29 have attained even an associate degree. Why do we design our high schools for college completers, if fewer than half of students complete college?
The problem is that schools refuse to track--to separate high-school students into different educational programs that target different outcomes. The impulse is an egalitarian one, but the insistence on treating everyone equally in high school harms students for whom the college track is not appropriate. It deprives them of schooling that could be more valuable and abandons them after graduation ill-prepared for work.
Would a noncollege track prevent some students from achieving their full academic potential? Perhaps. But the risk pales in comparison to the problem of today, when everyone is placed on a track that we know is wrong for most. A well-designed tracking system could mitigate that risk by leaving the choice to students and parents, by providing offramps from one track to the other, and by ensuring that the noncollege track is not undesirable to begin with.
How could a noncollege track be made more attractive? For starters, it could receive comparable resources. Schools lavish tens of thousands of public dollars on students who pursue college, while others, trying to find their own footing in life after leaving high school, get nothing at all. The Trump administration's proposal to let students use Pell Grants for different forms of postsecondary training is a good start. But students on a vocational track shouldn't have to wait until after high school for such resources.
A strong noncollege track would also allow employers to play a much larger role. School hours can be working hours--what Mr. Trump has called "earn as you learn." But vocational students need access to this in high school if that is when their career preparation should begin.
Imagine if traditional high-school academics were compressed. Part of 11th grade would emphasize career selection and readiness, and 12th grade would mark the start of a subsidized internship or apprenticeship. Such a student could have significant work experience, certified skills, and $40,000 in the bank--before being old enough to drink. And that's for the same cost as what Americans spend on the typical debt-laden college dropout.
I did this in a way myself -- getting myself an internship at the local Detroit NBC station as a senior in high school. It started me on a track to get a job a few years afterward as a junior TV commercial producer at Ogilvy & Mather advertising, which then had the best production department in New York.
If you want to earn a living these days, you're probably better off becoming a plumber than an English major.
By the way, plumbers are not prohibited from reading, and P.S. I read through all of psychology's major works myself back in the 80s. You don't need to pay tuition to do that, and these days, there are amazing resources on the web to help you make sense of texts you don't understand, etc.)
Cass's new book, "The Once and Future Worker."
The average income for a farrier in the US is $95k. A company in our smallish nearby town recently listed an opening for a plumber for $115k. Im actively discouraging college to mine, unless they have a defined plan for a career requiring a certain degree.
Momof4 at February 28, 2019 6:07 AM
Wow. These seem to be some of the areas where pay is not in the toilet compared to what it used to be.
Amy Alkon at February 28, 2019 6:25 AM
I worked in student loans in the early '90s. The biggest problem we had then were proprietary trade schools. Ted Kennedy had sponsored a bill that extended student loans to trade schools so that the poor could build skills - noble intent, poor execution.
Joe and Bob would form Joe-Bob's Trade School, ostensibly teaching a trade to enrollees. The tuition would coincidentallly be exactly the same as the maximum student loan available.
In reality, Joe-Bob's would sell them a textbook, spend a few weeks with an "instructor" reading out of it, and call the students educated at the end of the semester.
No one in that business would hire anyone from Joe-Bob's, so the "education" was worthless. One truck driving school grad told me he'd never even gotten inside a truck during his "schooling."
Later, to head off potential lawsuits and government investigators, Joe and Bob would shutter Joe-Bob's and form a new LLC to open Bob-Joe's Trade School.
When a former student needed to correct some faulty paperwork to get some loan relief or obtain a partial refund from Joe-Bob's, the school was gone, as was the money.
It's tough to tell someone making minimum wage on part-time work that they owe the entire tuition borrowed when they dropped out in the first week; and that if they don't pay, the federal government will be coming after them - the same government that was party to bilking them out of the money in the first place.
Joe and Bob, on the other hand, were free to serially form as many schools as they wanted and continue gaming the system ad infinitum.
Sounds like that little flaw in the system is still an issue.
Conan the Grammarian at February 28, 2019 6:28 AM
Pay goes in the toilet when you have to compete with robots. And on the other hand pay can (but not always) go way up when you use robots.
It is nice to see someone actually trying this academic model out. There is fairly little connection between education and employment these days. And educators on all levels have made it clear they don't want there to be any connection. It will be interesting to see how well this system survives.
Ben at February 28, 2019 6:41 AM
I'm one of those cranky old people who still thinks that a well-rounded education has value. That said, our educational system quit providing that decades ago. With most of the "XYZ Studies" type degree programs today, the only job a person holding that degree is qualified for is being a professor of XYZ Studies. The degree program is accomplishing nothing beyond perpetrating its own existence, and most of the holders of such degrees are ending up behind the counter at Starbuck's, trying to pay off a six-figure loan on retail wages. So if universities are going to be glorified vocational schools, they should at least be vocations where you can actually find a job. But of course, at that point, you can run a vocational school with far less overhead than a traditional university.
(I will throw out this caution: vocational schools sometimes fall into the trap of teaching by rote, without giving the students any understanding of what they are actually working with. I have seen this with some programmers who come out of Lambda-ish programs -- they can, say, do a bang-up job of building a Web site user interface, but their skills don't transfer to, say, writing embedded code for a smart thermostat. Because they don't really understand computers; they only understand how to make certain pieces do certain things.)
I've mused at times that I wish I had an education in the Classics. But where could I go today to get such?
Cousin Dave at February 28, 2019 7:33 AM
Y'all act like you've never heard of Mike Rowe Works...
Radwaste at February 28, 2019 8:39 AM
Stellar blog post
Crid at February 28, 2019 9:21 AM
> a bill that extended student
> loans to trade schools so
> that the poor could build
> skills - noble intent, poor
> execution.
I don't mean to be cynical*, but Lefty intentions should never be described as noble. The nobility is only in the presumptions of the people who are eager to spend the money of third parties on fourth parties... Basically the nobility is marketing. I'll never believe that Ted Kennedy ever gave a rat's ass about any other human being. He was pandering to special interests in entertainment and regulation. And to lenders with borrowers who, famously, can never shed their debt through bankruptcy, refinancing, or other writedowns.
*Totally kidding.
Crid at February 28, 2019 9:31 AM
"...the insistence on treating everyone equally in high school harms students for whom the college track is not appropriate."
It also harms students for whom the college track IS appropriate. The exceptionally gifted, many of whom are not challenged, learn they can coast, not having to study or work to get by. The normal college candidates are harmed by reduced level course requirements, teachers that must accomodate disinterested students, and classroom disruption.
iowaan at February 28, 2019 10:20 AM
There will be a need for carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC workers, etc, at least for the immediate future.
And if you're decent at welding pipes together, you won't go hungry. If you're better than decent, you'll make bank.
I R A Darth Aggie at February 28, 2019 10:21 AM
There's bank and then there's BANK. The game is still rigged for people with high IQs who want to work in financial services.
Crid at February 28, 2019 10:25 AM
That was me. I coasted through high school and found out the hard way in college that my study habits were terrible.
__________________________________________________
Yeah, I gagged a little when I wrote that.
Conan the Grammarian at February 28, 2019 11:14 AM
Just a note for those of you who don’t currently have a child in the public K-12 pipeline...college bound students in middle to higher middle class areas do not “just get to coast” through school. In most areas, high schools are already quietly tracked into college bound and non college bound (often called regulars classes). The kids who are on the college, or AP track, have very little to do with with those in regulars classes, with some exceptions like regular physics (which at my daughter’s school was actually the better class)... they work their tails off and the competition is stiff to graduate at the top. My daughter routinely had anywhere from 6 to 8 hours of homework a night. She graduated 29th in of her class of 1,000. She could have moved up a few knotches if she could have broken more than a 93 in English..that’s how tight the numbers are. I couldn’t say what happens to the non college bound kids...I have heard horror stories of what those classes are like though.
BTW, the plan described above will never come to fruition bc the lack of diversity of outcomes will be too obvious and it will be labeled as institutionally racist from the get go. Also, there are plenty of parents who would be shocked to find out that their child will not qualify for the college track.
Finally, Cousin Dave I agree with you...college is more than a job training program. Also, you can still get a classics degree if you want one. :-) The University of Oklahoma actually offers a Master of Letters degree in their Arts and Sciences College. My daughter is studying Comp Sci, but because she is in the Honors College, is also getting a minor in classics. She loves it. The work is hard, but she is finding it so worthwhile. (She is not at OU.)
Sheep Mom at February 28, 2019 11:22 AM
They need to nix the $50,000 cut off. If you get a degree in nothing studies, you don't deserve to have your loan forgiven just because there are no jobs for people with degrees in nothing studies.
Your only value as a grievance studies student is as a warm body in a classroom - keeping a professor employed. Once you've passed through the program, your value is nil. You've learned nothing of value. You're capable of contributing nothing but anger and resentment to society.
__________________________________________________
Try podcasts or taped lectures - many universities will provide them for free. TED talks on the classics can be instructive.
Or simply start reading those classics. A professor deconstructing them in a classroom adds little to your initial education in or appreciation of them and can actually destroy any later enjoyment of them for you.
A middle school teacher who insisted on rooting out symbolism in every line of every play destroyed Shakespeare for me. Only when I started reading it for myself as an adult did I discover any enjoyment in it. However, I still detest iambic pentameter.
Academic deconstruction has ruined classical education.
Conan the Grammarian at February 28, 2019 11:56 AM
If I had a child (a risible thought in itself), I would prefer him or her to have a passion for some kind of vo-tech or nursing, jobs that pay well and can't be replaced by robotics or sent overseas.
I'd rather be the father of a bartender than an academic, for oh so many reasons.
Kevin at February 28, 2019 12:05 PM
"My daughter is studying Comp Sci, but because she is in the Honors College, is also getting a minor in classics. "
That's pretty cool.
Cousin Dave at February 28, 2019 12:09 PM
As Sheep Mom says many places have two track schools. The problem is there is a cutoff and you either end up on path A or path B with no real way to move after that cutoff point. So if a mistake is made and you are on the wrong track too bad, it can't be changed. And also as she mentioned the differences between the two are massive at the end. Education is built on previous education so there is an exponential effect. My high school had a two track system. Their final year the honors track people were learning Chaucer and other classics in English. The standard track people were doing four letter spelling words.
Conan, the only solution I can see is for people to pay for their own education. Third party payment system always end up like this. It is an inherent problem with the system.
Cousin Dave, I was one of the people who was sad to see ITT Tech go under. I've always been amazed that they produced the best and the worst. Some students I've known from there were incredibly skilled. They could take a jumbled mess with terrible instructions and produce consistent high quality products over and over again. And other students of their's I've known you worry about handing a glass of water for fear they would drown themselves. Most programs produce much more consistent result but ITT always put out extremes.
Ben at February 28, 2019 12:31 PM
One problem is that in high school and jr high the voc classes have been cut because they cost more. Schools used to have an auto shop, machine shop, print shop, electronics (at least some schools) but that is mostly gone. One of the best predictors of success in engineering is hands on mechanical stuff before college (self-taught or classes).
cc at February 28, 2019 1:35 PM
What they had when I was in high school were two tracks with the same name. On one, you got AP classes and even college credit. The second track, however, was not a vocational or occupational track - it was baby sitting.
There were still some vocational ed classes for people who were not on a college track. There were wood shop, metal shop, and auto shop classes. These were being phased out due to the cost of liability insurance, so a few schools were set up to specialize in them and students who qualified got transferred to the schools with them.
The rest of the district's students were officially on a "college track" even if their schedules were full of remedial classes. Some, the AP students, were going to good colleges. The rest were going to state colleges or state prison. You could usually tell which.
Conan the Grammarian at February 28, 2019 2:09 PM
I will admit I had forgotten shop class and all the variants. By the time I was in school all of those had been shut down. Not really for cost reasons like CC said. It was for safety reasons. You are right Conan that a lot of the standard track kids are treated like likely future inmates. People with tools and training make things. Future inmates make things we would rather they not make. So no more shop class. Or at least that was the logic.
Ben at February 28, 2019 5:04 PM
> That's pretty cool.
> Cousin Dave at February 28,
> 2019 12:09 PM
It's magnificent. Props. ✓
Crid at February 28, 2019 5:17 PM
> I'd rather be the father of
> a bartender than an academic,
> for oh so many reasons.
>
> Kevin at February 28,
> 2019 12:05 PM
In late hours, we identify Amy's 2/19 Comment of the Month.™
Watch your mail box for the pink & chartreuse sports visor + totable drink bottle with the little "RedHead on the Eiffel®" logo.
Crid at February 28, 2019 5:24 PM
> Yeah, I gagged a little when
> I wrote that
Imagine my coughing fit when looking back and seeing I'd written "entertainment" instead of "education," as was intended.
After a childhood on a big college campus came a mid-level career in (tawdry) Hollywood teevee. If you asked which of education or entertainment had done more damage to the American mind, there'd be no clear answer. Much of what comes into people's heads by education (excepting STEM) is as trite and pandering as is "I Love Lucy" or "Black Panther."
Both education and entertainment are freely chosen to some extent. Blaming each for their distortions is like blaming the grocery for your nutrition. After both graduation and the final credits, you're supposed to keep reading challenging things to learn how the real world works.
Listen, for the past couple of years I've been working with a small team including people who take entertainment far too seriously... Even those with good college degrees accept the Tinseltown tellings as the framework for their understanding of history, righteousness and the human heart. It's deeply pathetic.
But for all of Hollywood's corruptions, for all the film bureau tax breaks and exploitation of ludicrous broadcast & copyright regulation, Hollywood doesn't saddle its customers with lifetimes of six-figure debt in order to pump money through bullshit college endowments and associated bureaucracies.
I'm sorry for foreshortened imaginations which burden those who don't learn to turn away from media to investigate the real world courageously. (There's some blood on my hands. Even with our limited budgets, I always did my best to make it alluring.
But the American sanctimony for education is its own tier of villainy.
Crid at February 28, 2019 6:50 PM
Fun new coinage.
Crid at February 28, 2019 6:58 PM
Wrong thread, sorry.
Crid at February 28, 2019 6:59 PM
For what it's worth, some Universities are adopting a similar model. For example, Purdue University has the "Back A Boiler" program, which is an Income Sharing Agreement; essentially in return for tuition and fees, a graduate pays a percentage of future income.
https://purdue.edu/backaboiler/
Known primarily as a STEM school, they have an online calculator to let you compare ISA vs loan outcomes: https://purdue.edu/backaboiler/comparison/index.html
A typical payback would be 2.8% for 88 months per $10,000.
Criticas at March 4, 2019 8:17 AM
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