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At last! Something from Lenona I can disagree with wholeheartedly. From June 8, 2019 7:22 AM—
> There are certain advantages
> to having kids SUPERVISED as
> much as possible (not
> necessarily by the parents).
> Namely, the kids are less
> likely to get into trouble
> with the law - and when their
> unsupervised friends get into
> trouble, the supervised kids
> can prove they weren't there
> and thus avoid getting caught
> in cases of mistaken identity.
That advantage accrues only to the parents, or whatever supervisory authority is at the playground for that single afternoon.
The children themselves become crippled: They're not learning how to regulate themselves or their group interactions. These are developmental milestones which have to happen in particular (early) years if the pattern is to be reliable across a lifetime of adulthood.
We're fucking this up, and we're going to pay like Hell.
Crid
at June 9, 2019 7:44 AM
But also— When I say "we," I mean, in the editorial sense, YOU... The reader, not just Lenona specifically.
The next stage is a punitive damages hearing, since the jury found the defendants acted with intent and malice. A separate punitive damages hearing is required under the Ohio Tort Reform legislation that passed several years ago. The point is to keep some of the more inflammatory evidence that does not go to liability or compensatory damages away from the jury during the initial deliberations. That additional evidence relevant to punitive damages could include information as to the wealth of the defendants, but also additional information supporting the need for punishment.
In this context, there is nothing more baffling than a statement sent to alumni after the verdict by Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin College’s Vice President and General Counsel.
The statement was contained in a mass email sent to alumni (and possibly others) criticizing the jury verdict and repeating the same stale defenses that failed at trial
Ah, muguet des bois... the plant that looks like ail des ours but DO NOT MIX THEM UP!
NicoleK
at June 9, 2019 10:22 AM
Wow, can you say "pandering?"
I was wondering who that was. I was so disinterested I didn't scroll down the twitfeed. No wonder Kirsten Jello-brains is polling in the sub 5% range.
I R A Darth Aggie
at June 9, 2019 10:35 AM
The statement was contained in a mass email sent to alumni (and possibly others) criticizing the jury verdict and repeating the same stale defenses that failed at trial
Funny how now that there's a lawsuit they stand for free speech. Not to mention that in her email she also went with the John Oliver defence by telling the alumni that it's not the campus' fault that its students are violent retards.
Sixclaws
at June 9, 2019 12:06 PM
Dems and the GOP: two wings of the same bird of prey, as said by Pat Buchanan during his 2000 Reform Party Presidential run.
OK, so I should have made it clear that it's wrong for kids NEVER to have any unscheduled, unsupervised time.
But when parents are desperate to get their kids into a good college, anything that keeps the kids out of trouble - and thus improves the look of their college applications - can be highly tempting.
So on the one hand, it's tempting to let them play with their phones for hours, since that keeps them away from actual sex, actual drugs, and most crime, but that won't look well on any resume - and is not good for their health or happiness. What's more, throwing kids outdoors to play, exercise and explore doesn't work if the very few other kids they meet are carrying their phones! They'll just hide, sit down, and ruin their bodies and brains. So what's left? Forcing them into scheduled sports and activities that challenge their brains.
I can't find the last thread where I posted this, but here it is again:
"...The number of teens who get together with their friends nearly every day dropped by more than 40 percent from 2000 to 2015; the decline has been especially steep recently. It’s not only a matter of fewer kids partying; fewer kids are spending time simply hanging out. That’s something most teens used to do: nerds and jocks, poor kids and rich kids, C students and A students. The roller rink, the basketball court, the town pool, the local necking spot—they’ve all been replaced by virtual spaces accessed through apps and the web.
"You might expect that teens spend so much time in these new spaces because it makes them happy, but most data suggest that it does not. The Monitoring the Future survey, funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse and designed to be nationally representative, has asked 12th-graders more than 1,000 questions every year since 1975 and queried eighth- and 10th-graders since 1991. The survey asks teens how happy they are and also how much of their leisure time they spend on various activities, including nonscreen activities such as in-person social interaction and exercise, and, in recent years, screen activities such as using social media, texting, and browsing the web. The results could not be clearer: Teens who spend more time than average on screen activities are more likely to be unhappy, and those who spend more time than average on nonscreen activities are more likely to be happy.
"There’s not a single exception. All screen activities are linked to less happiness, and all nonscreen activities are linked to more happiness..."
(snip)
So the other hazard for parents to worry about is their kids' happiness - and mental health.
Quite a lot of hazards.
lenona
at June 10, 2019 6:54 AM
I meant, of course, "So the other hazard for parents to worry about is the RUINATION of their kids' happiness - and mental health."
lenona
at June 10, 2019 7:18 AM
"...The number of teens who get together with their friends nearly every day dropped by more than 40 percent from 2000 to 2015; the decline has been especially steep recently."
Go down to your local elementary, junior or senior high schools and tell me what you see.
Locks. Fences. Bars.
Because we, the parents of these precious children, insisted that this property CANNOT be used unless an official is present. It's symptomatic. We insist that kids:
a) do nothing without adult supervision;
b) will be sexually assaulted if left alone for moments;
c) will be injured if allowed to do anything alone.
It will be the school systems fault, and we can sue for big money!
Kids don't buy their phone, their guardians do. (Phone possession's not a right.)
Your kids don't "get together" because you don't want them to.
Radwaste
at June 10, 2019 7:32 PM
Go down to your local elementary, junior or senior high schools and tell me what you see.
I don't understand. Plenty of courts and fields exist that are not on school property. Yes, one may or may not need permission to use them, but they are still not the schools' responsibility.
Not to mention that parents are afraid of being accused in the media of being neglectful if the kids get hurt or cause harm to someone else. So it's a Catch-22, whether they give them phones or they don't, or overschedule them or not.
Q: Our 14-year-old (he's going into the ninth grade at a public high school) has taken up with a bunch of kids that we don't exactly approve of. They have reputations as troublemakers and at least one has already been arrested for shoplifting and had to do some community service. The irony is, they all come from families that are highly regarded in the community. We haven't seen any dramatic change in our son's behavior, but he has become more secretive and has told us he doesn't want to play sports anymore. In the opinion of lots of parents, the kids in question are under-supervised. Naturally, we're concerned about the potential bad influence. I want to tell him to find new friends; my husband wants to take a wait-and-see. What do you think we should do?
A: I don't mind taking sides in this; to wit, I agree with your husband.
To begin with, it's completely normal for kids your son's age to be flexing their independence - it's all part of preparing for emancipation...
(Be sure to read all the way down.)
lenona
at June 11, 2019 7:48 AM
If you're interested, here's a similar story about Rosemond's OWN son, Eric:
Just so you know, Rad, when I said "what do you know," I was referring to the remarkable coincidence of Rosemond's having a recent column on kids who supposedly need more scheduled time.
Steamy
Crid at June 9, 2019 7:18 AM
At last! Something from Lenona I can disagree with wholeheartedly. From June 8, 2019 7:22 AM—
> There are certain advantages
> to having kids SUPERVISED as
> much as possible (not
> necessarily by the parents).
> Namely, the kids are less
> likely to get into trouble
> with the law - and when their
> unsupervised friends get into
> trouble, the supervised kids
> can prove they weren't there
> and thus avoid getting caught
> in cases of mistaken identity.
That advantage accrues only to the parents, or whatever supervisory authority is at the playground for that single afternoon.
The children themselves become crippled: They're not learning how to regulate themselves or their group interactions. These are developmental milestones which have to happen in particular (early) years if the pattern is to be reliable across a lifetime of adulthood.
We're fucking this up, and we're going to pay like Hell.
Crid at June 9, 2019 7:44 AM
But also— When I say "we," I mean, in the editorial sense, YOU... The reader, not just Lenona specifically.
Because I don't have kids. So it's not my fault.
Heh. True!
Crid at June 9, 2019 7:48 AM
Wow, can you say "pandering?"
Conan the Grammarian at June 9, 2019 10:13 AM
Some people just can't help themselves.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/
I R A Darth Aggie at June 9, 2019 10:15 AM
Ah, muguet des bois... the plant that looks like ail des ours but DO NOT MIX THEM UP!
NicoleK at June 9, 2019 10:22 AM
Wow, can you say "pandering?"
I was wondering who that was. I was so disinterested I didn't scroll down the twitfeed. No wonder Kirsten Jello-brains is polling in the sub 5% range.
I R A Darth Aggie at June 9, 2019 10:35 AM
Funny how now that there's a lawsuit they stand for free speech. Not to mention that in her email she also went with the John Oliver defence by telling the alumni that it's not the campus' fault that its students are violent retards.
Sixclaws at June 9, 2019 12:06 PM
Dems and the GOP: two wings of the same bird of prey, as said by Pat Buchanan during his 2000 Reform Party Presidential run.
Bipartisan Senate Effort Predictably Kills Rand Paul's Plan to Balance the Federal Budget
mpetrie98 at June 9, 2019 12:09 PM
How can they keep things moving in good order for the bustling, dynamic Asian capital of Pyongyang?
Hmm…
...Ah, I have it!
Traffic cops!
Crid at June 9, 2019 1:23 PM
How Mr. Jell-O Puddin' Pops finally got his comeuppance:
How the Cosby Story Finally Went Viral — And Why It Took So Long
mpetrie98 at June 9, 2019 2:28 PM
From 2014:
12 Reasons Men Should Choose Natural Birth Control
mpetrie98 at June 9, 2019 2:30 PM
From 2016:
Why is male reproductive health declining?
mpetrie98 at June 9, 2019 2:31 PM
Crid:
OK, so I should have made it clear that it's wrong for kids NEVER to have any unscheduled, unsupervised time.
But when parents are desperate to get their kids into a good college, anything that keeps the kids out of trouble - and thus improves the look of their college applications - can be highly tempting.
So on the one hand, it's tempting to let them play with their phones for hours, since that keeps them away from actual sex, actual drugs, and most crime, but that won't look well on any resume - and is not good for their health or happiness. What's more, throwing kids outdoors to play, exercise and explore doesn't work if the very few other kids they meet are carrying their phones! They'll just hide, sit down, and ruin their bodies and brains. So what's left? Forcing them into scheduled sports and activities that challenge their brains.
I can't find the last thread where I posted this, but here it is again:
"Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?"
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/
By Jean M. Twenge.
Excerpts:
"...The number of teens who get together with their friends nearly every day dropped by more than 40 percent from 2000 to 2015; the decline has been especially steep recently. It’s not only a matter of fewer kids partying; fewer kids are spending time simply hanging out. That’s something most teens used to do: nerds and jocks, poor kids and rich kids, C students and A students. The roller rink, the basketball court, the town pool, the local necking spot—they’ve all been replaced by virtual spaces accessed through apps and the web.
"You might expect that teens spend so much time in these new spaces because it makes them happy, but most data suggest that it does not. The Monitoring the Future survey, funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse and designed to be nationally representative, has asked 12th-graders more than 1,000 questions every year since 1975 and queried eighth- and 10th-graders since 1991. The survey asks teens how happy they are and also how much of their leisure time they spend on various activities, including nonscreen activities such as in-person social interaction and exercise, and, in recent years, screen activities such as using social media, texting, and browsing the web. The results could not be clearer: Teens who spend more time than average on screen activities are more likely to be unhappy, and those who spend more time than average on nonscreen activities are more likely to be happy.
"There’s not a single exception. All screen activities are linked to less happiness, and all nonscreen activities are linked to more happiness..."
(snip)
So the other hazard for parents to worry about is their kids' happiness - and mental health.
Quite a lot of hazards.
lenona at June 10, 2019 6:54 AM
I meant, of course, "So the other hazard for parents to worry about is the RUINATION of their kids' happiness - and mental health."
lenona at June 10, 2019 7:18 AM
"...The number of teens who get together with their friends nearly every day dropped by more than 40 percent from 2000 to 2015; the decline has been especially steep recently."
Go down to your local elementary, junior or senior high schools and tell me what you see.
Locks. Fences. Bars.
Because we, the parents of these precious children, insisted that this property CANNOT be used unless an official is present. It's symptomatic. We insist that kids:
a) do nothing without adult supervision;
b) will be sexually assaulted if left alone for moments;
c) will be injured if allowed to do anything alone.
It will be the school systems fault, and we can sue for big money!
Kids don't buy their phone, their guardians do. (Phone possession's not a right.)
Your kids don't "get together" because you don't want them to.
Radwaste at June 10, 2019 7:32 PM
Go down to your local elementary, junior or senior high schools and tell me what you see.
Locks. Fences. Bars.
______________________________________
I don't understand. Plenty of courts and fields exist that are not on school property. Yes, one may or may not need permission to use them, but they are still not the schools' responsibility.
Not to mention that parents are afraid of being accused in the media of being neglectful if the kids get hurt or cause harm to someone else. So it's a Catch-22, whether they give them phones or they don't, or overschedule them or not.
Anyway, what do you know. From John Rosemond:
https://www.herald-dispatch.com/features_entertainment/john-rosemond-father-is-right-concerning-son-s-new-friends/article_df20d4d4-d9df-5b62-9c4b-c84929a71615.html
Q: Our 14-year-old (he's going into the ninth grade at a public high school) has taken up with a bunch of kids that we don't exactly approve of. They have reputations as troublemakers and at least one has already been arrested for shoplifting and had to do some community service. The irony is, they all come from families that are highly regarded in the community. We haven't seen any dramatic change in our son's behavior, but he has become more secretive and has told us he doesn't want to play sports anymore. In the opinion of lots of parents, the kids in question are under-supervised. Naturally, we're concerned about the potential bad influence. I want to tell him to find new friends; my husband wants to take a wait-and-see. What do you think we should do?
A: I don't mind taking sides in this; to wit, I agree with your husband.
To begin with, it's completely normal for kids your son's age to be flexing their independence - it's all part of preparing for emancipation...
(Be sure to read all the way down.)
lenona at June 11, 2019 7:48 AM
If you're interested, here's a similar story about Rosemond's OWN son, Eric:
https://books.google.com/books?id=rOvbDG88Y1UC&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=%22one+fine+summer+day+when+eric%22&source=bl&ots=DMD-3o0NuE&sig=ACfU3U1bcCmlUfrY6Op5asmLuxUhpmOUxw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4_LLl1uHiAhUhvFkKHdGzCOgQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22one%20fine%20summer%20day%20when%20eric%22&f=false
Pages 153-155.
lenona at June 11, 2019 7:53 AM
Just so you know, Rad, when I said "what do you know," I was referring to the remarkable coincidence of Rosemond's having a recent column on kids who supposedly need more scheduled time.
lenona at June 11, 2019 1:17 PM
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