Maybe in normal times this law made the neighborhood better, but even if this is true, it is not true now and the city council should immediately vote on an emergency exception to the law. Even if they don't overturn it, if that would be too controversial, an emergency measure for NOW.

Maybe in normal times this law made the neighborhood better, but even if this is true, it is not true now and the city council should immediately vote on an emergency exception to the law. Even if they don't overturn it, if that would be too controversial, an emergency measure for NOW.

No shutters? get a gun.
This is nuts.

"Tragic police killing" still? Even after video proof he ate a bag of fentanyl? There was literally nothing that would have saved him. Not even being in an ED when he swallowed it.

An empty abondoned boarded up store front is much more attractive than security shutters.

An empty abondoned boarded up store front is much more attractive than security shutters.

Shtetl G at September 1, 2020 7:50 AM

Most people don’t have the ability to see possible consequences even five minutes into the future. Unfortunately a lot of them are in government.

Worrying about pull down shutters is an example of worrying about yesterday’s problems.

Businesses burned are being ordered to demolish the structures within a few days. When they don’t, the city is doing it and sending them the bill. Currently that’s about $150,000. But, the demand for firms that have the licenses, equipment and workforce to do that is driving up the prices to the $200,000 - $300,000 range. For businesses that had demolition coverage in there insurance (many don’t), the coverage is typically capped at $25,000 or $50,000. If they cannot pay the city’s lien, the city will foreclosure on the property and, if the property is owned by an individual or partnership (which for tax reasons, many were), pursue an individual for a deficiency judgment. This is how to make Minneapolis and St. Paul into Detroit-like areas very quickly.

To paraphrase Mencken, people get the government they voted for - good and hard.

To paraphrase Mencken, people get the government they voted for - good and hard. ~ Wfjag at September 1, 2020 9:32 AM

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." ~ Henry Louis Mencken

"Every nation gets the government it deserves." ~ Joseph de Maistre

The lefties for some reason hate business. Their theory is that a business can only exist by exploiting people. Exploitation is something they see everywhere and in particular they view blacks as being exploited by society. Thus burn it all down makes sense to them. They simply do not see that employees need employers and citizens need stores.

We see in multiple cases that the new regime both wants to remove or stand-down the police AND make it illegal to protect yourself or your business.

People should care about lives....black lives, property is secondary. If my son was murdered by a cop, I would feel like burning a building too.
Work toward justice.

Yes, Pat, lives should matter more than property. The truth, however, is that often the property destroyed in these mindless rampages was someone's livelihood - their means of putting bread on their table and a roof over their heads.

And it's not just the owners. This applies to the people who worked in those businesses as well.

"Who steals my purse steals my right to live.... For he steals my bread and meat and bed, and in so doing imperils my life." ~ Wolf Larsen (The Sea-Wolf by John Steinbeck)

What is your address Pat? Bad shit has happened in my life. I appreciate you volunteering your property for my emotional well being.

Pat, did you actually just condone looting and destruction of property?

If people should care about lives, then we ALL should care about the lives and livelihoods of the INNOCENT people who are simply trying to run a business (or work at one). You speak of working toward justice - Where is the justice for them? How does arson, looting, and property destruction achieve justice? How would you feel if a mob burned down your entire neighborhood, including your house, because one of your neighbors committed a crime?

Conan,

The Sea-Wolf is by Jack London.

Damn it, caustic, you're right. For some reason I had Cannery Row on the brain when I was copying that quote.

I'll give myself 20 lashes with a wet fish and a Victorian novel as a reading assignment for my punishment.

I'll give myself 20 lashes with a wet fish and a Victorian novel as a reading assignment for my punishment.

Conan the Grammarian at September 1, 2020 7:25 PM

Whip me, beat me, make me read Charles Dickens.

...make me read Charles Dickens. ~ Isab at September 1, 2020 7:31 PM

I was actually thinking Jane Eyre would be a good punishment, but Great Expectations was a pretty dreary slog, too.

The thing about fires is that they can get out of control and spread, and kill people.

Smashing windows and stealing stuff, yeah, you can argue the "it's just stuff" argument if you like... don't think everyone will agree with you, but there you go. I'll get back to that argument.

Lighting fires is more like randomly shooting guns in the air. Yeah maybe you'll luck out and no one will get hurt. But fires pose a risk not just to stuff, but to actual physical bodies.

And as for the "it's just stuff", in a country in the middle of a pandemic where health insurance and your ability to get health care is tied to your business... I'd argue "it's not just stuff".

When I interned in Palestine, back in the day, I met a guy whose flower shop windows were smashed by the IDF. Not because of anything he personally did, but because it was in the middle of a conflict (can't remember which one maybe the first Intifada), and they were going around smashing Palestinian business windows. There was a strong disconnect between the look in his eyes and the matter-of-fact tone of his voice that I will never forget. Was it "just stuff"?

Now maybe you will say, "That was different! In that case, the IDF were the powerful ones and in this case it is the powerless smashing things!" which is true enough. But we play a dangerous game when we start saying tactics are ok when some people do it, but not ok when others do it. If we decide that smashing stuff is ok when the morally righteous do it, we open the door to everyone doing it, because pretty much everyone feels that they are morally righteous.

I mean, in this case, it's random businesses! In a war situation you're supposed to hit military targets, not civilian ones. If (IF, and I don't think we do, but IF) we accept that this is a civil war and some violence is to be expected, then military targets would be police stations and government buildings, not random people's businesses and homes.

There are some tactics that are just wrong in and of themselves, even if they are means to a good end. Smashing businesses is one. Hurting innocents. Book burning. Squelching of speech. Torture. If you're using these, then the ends maybe aren't as great as you think they are.

Nicole's longest comment is her best.

(Joe Rogan was saying the same thing the other day: Fires are not targeted attacks, but are omnidirectionally destructive.)

I'm worried what will happen when white racist (I know, redundant!) owners dismantle the NBA and NFL to silence Black players.

Can't President Harris take over professional sports to protect them?

> owners dismantle the NBA and NFL

They ain't dismantlin' nuthin'.

They'll sell the franchises to less-competent businessmen and cackle from yachts in the Mediterranean.

Unfortunately a lot of them are in government.
Isab

Yep, if they could anticipate in to the future they would have gone into business for themselves

Pat you say you understand, so if anyone in my family is killed by the cops I can come you your town several states away and burn down the business you work at?

@NicoleK: A well-written and thought-out comment. Thank you.

@NicoleK: A well-written and thought-out comment. Thank you.