Tried? Thirty seconds? Of that voice? And I noped out? Drove me crazy?

I don't care? If I'm "tone-policing"? Or "gatekeeping" a woman's speaking patterns?

It's like Sino-American water torture? To hear someone speak this way? It's a learned behavior?

Without having clicked the link yet, I know exactly what you're talking about?

Young people — or at least younger people, because I've heard fifty-year-olds adopting the affection — don't seem to understand that the interrogative tone of voice, when used with for unremarkable sentences, is offensive and condescending? They don't seem to understand that 'Am I speaking slowly enough for your to grasp my magnificent reasoning' the implicit question engendered by the ascending pitch?

It therefore makes them seem like bitchy little snots, even if they're just youthful trend-bunnies?

I make an exception for (attractive) teenage girls from the deep south, specifically Georgia peaches? They seem to have come by the habit through much older regional patterns, perhaps the corruption of French or German or who-knows what kind of immigrant? The uglier, trendy use of that tone seems to have been cooked up in Southern California's San Fernando Valley in the 70's, and I suspect it has something to do with the tens of thousands of Hispanics who were landing in Valley high schools for each of those years?

I don't think these people realize that the ascending tone for questions is a verbal treasure that's been honed in English for hundreds of years? They have NO business trashing it un an attempt to signify unity with an unremarkable cohort?

I kinda regret leaving the Smith Alum groups now. I wanna read the comments.

That style of speaking shouts to me that you do not know what you're talking about.

I'd rather listen to Fran Fine!

I think the interrogative tone is coming from the fact that she's speaking extemporaneously and not from prepared, or even thought-out remarks. She's not sure what exactly she's going to say next and so needs to slow down and consider what her next words are going to be; all while still speaking. That she doesn't pepper her unrehearsed speech with a lot of "uhs" and "ums" is a relief.

I agree that adults adopting teenaged speaking patterns is annoying. Adults today seem to be stuck in an extended adolescence, remaining perpetual teenagers.

I guess I'm too used to it, she's actually worth hearing out. You can get a transcript from youtube if it's too much bear.

The Smith admin has been behaving abusively and is encouraging the same behavior among the students. I've seen mention of this elsewhere. It's been going on for several years.

What was standard PC college culture has apparently gotten very culty and authoritarian, especially with the anti-racism hysteria that's been going around. Now they're forcing staff and faculty to 'acknowledge' their race crimes and make testimonials in which they have to divulge intimate personal information so that they can be judged for their sins. People are actually afraid for their safety because elements of the student population have been threatening violence and the admin won't do anything to mitigate their behavior.

'Hold On To 16 As Long As You Can ...' ~John Mellencamp

Conan, I haven't watched it yet, but I know J.P. Morgan men pushing 50 who use "like" ungrammatically, in social settings - all the time. What is the MATTER with them? Doesn't anyone take pride in moving AWAY from adolescence?

Can't find it right now, but an elderly woman wrote to Miss Manners to express her disgust about the common, smarmy use of the phrase "young at heart." MM agreed completely and finished with "(what is) wrong with having a wise old heart."

Yeah, the up talking isn't doing her any favors, but she's at least smart enough to have thought this through. By calling herself a whistle blower and promising to organize the administrative staff, she just might have protected her job. If they mess with her, she can sue for retaliation.

I hope for her sake, she has some kind of audio confirmation of the harassment she and the others have endured. Once she has rallied the troops, they need to file an EEOC complaint because an affirmative ruling in their favor will set the standard for all universities in the country, and from there, private workplaces throughout the country. This case could even go as far as SCOTUS and finally finish off this CRT garbage for good. We should all be rooting for her.

Nemo, where else have you seen stuff about Smith? I'm an alum so I'm interested.

I recently left a bunch of Smith Facebook groups because of all this. FFS, we just wanted to talk about cloth vs paper diapers or give each other resumé tips.

> I guess I'm too used to it,
> she's actually worth
> hearing out

There's no doubt? Amy's judgement of such things is golden, and I've no beef with yours?

But that tone of voice is not to be forgiven? As I was writing that comment last night I was listening to Matt Welch on Fifth Column, and he was doing it too? The guy's fifty years old? I heard Terry Gross doing several years ago when she was in her sixties? That's precisely the point, that it's an inappropriate and corrupting coloration of meaning from speakers one would like to take seriously? It's noise in the signal? This Smith video hit Twitter, with kudos from people I admire, yesterday afternoon, and I want to like it? But now I might not make the time?

We shouldn't play with children's toys in ANY matter of fashion? We had our fun when it was our time? Let's them do what they want in THEIR time, and let them deal with the consequences?

And then we can mock them for the rest of their lives? And they will soon feel ashamed, as my generation does for the collars over the jean jackets?

Let them pull this stupid mannerism as long as they like, as long as the rest of us are free to mock it and laugh at them. This is the only response that will deter them.

(ahem)

[Pardon me, I meant]

(Ahem?)

(ahem)

Crid at October 30, 2020 8:44 AM

Makes me want to get out the old Guitar?

Galveston. Bonaparte’s Retreat

Having listened to is I'm with Nemo on the voice. It just sounds like a regional dialect to me, neither good nor bad.

On the content I can only express apathy. This isn't a new issue. It didn't just pop up and blindside people. This has grown over decades. Given her age and place of employment I expect Ms Shaw was fine with things as long as she wasn't threatened. Now that the monster she trained and nurtured has turned on her I have no sympathy. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.

The only vocal affectation that is more annoying than up-talk is the opposite -- vocal fry, where young women end every sentence by dropping their pitch down to the gravel level. This is ubiquitous on NPR. I suppose these folks think that it gives what they are saying some masculine gravitas. Instead, it makes them un-listenable.

> young women end every sentence
> by dropping their pitch

I've only heard it once, Pittsburgh airport in 2017. In line at the Starbucks, just at the escalator to the tram.

NEVER IN MY LIFE have I felt such a compelling urge to reach out and slap another man's child… Because back in the day, as has been recently discussed on this blog, neighborhood grown-ups were expected to intercede IMMEDIATELY when a youngster was misbehaving. Not to complete the full cycle of punishment, but just to ensure that corrective measures were underway before the kid reached home that night; and to let the kid know that some mischief was a community matter, and not just a family offense.

> get out the old Guitar?

Sure, fine, just tuck your fucking collar.

> Given her age and place of employment
> I expect Ms Shaw was fine with things
> as long as she wasn't threatened.

Twice in a month I agree with Ben. The world is truly going mad, spinning off its axis with dogs and cats living together.

Take drugs, eat Fritos, rape the prom queen… The election is Tuesday, there's no vaccine and life has no meaning… WUt-EVAR

Nicole - I'd lived in Hadley until 2018 and have friends in Northampton. The update I'd gotten was from a friend who had worked with Smith's Health and Wellness center as a counselor until recently.

Jodie's comments about incidents in which students have been behaving badly towards staff is in line with what she's related about the on-campus climate. Apparently the staff feels like they're constantly being thrown under the bus by the admin whenever some new student grievance becomes prominent. I think things are kind of coming to a head with the anti-racism initiatives because they're seen as way too intrusive and coercive.

An acquaintance on twitter invites us on a walk down memory lane.

…Including perhaps most oblivious rhetorical formulation in the history of the Democratic Party (and that's really, really saying something):

"Under President Obama, Julia decides to have a child."

Aim high! Three days is an eternity to this guy.

Wrong thread! Sorry. Western Civ is over anyway

I gotta agree with Ben, She would and probably has supported it until it targeted her and her friends.
Some of her statements: she was fine it going after the faculty, that no white women have any privilege, and she is scared that for a misheard or misinterpreted comment someone could get her fired.
Sorry we have been through that with the 'me too' movement, that is a privilege she and her friends have and enjoy. Not that 'me too' is new it's just the latest push, the latest version.
Maybe this will open her eyes that this emotionally driven mob justice is wrong, but I doubt she will see it other than in this one case it went too far.

Nemo, I thought her point about the class difference between students/faculty/admin and staff was a good one.

Joe J from her facebook it seems like she's referring to a specific incident in which a male staff member got in trouble because he didn't recognize a student sleeping on the Tyler House couch, and thought the student was male. The student was black. Males of any race (unless they ID as women) should not be sleeping unattended on the Tyler House couch so he called campus security and got accused of racism.